Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) - #74

[drsleuth]

imo, anything is possible, although I didn’t feel at the time of those comments that this ‘new & previously unheard of witness’ was ‘Steve’.
I’m pretty sure the Investigating team would’ve had a very clear idea of everyone who visited FA in jail so ‘Steve‘ would’ve been known to them. ( I do agree with Blue Clues that he could’ve possibly been one of the people who appearEd in a ‘closed environment’ at the Inquest, but I’m not convinced of his value)

all the above is just my own personal thoughts; I find it valuable & enjoy conversation where people come together and swap their ideas, thoughts etc.

"Steve" appeared in open court but he was a protected witness

 

[iiiii's]

I do that with lots of stuff in my shed. Stops the dirt and dust from gathering there.
My DD's bike has a towel over it right now ... or as much as the towel will cover, anyway.

Ok but that picture doesn't make sense to me. The handlebars are being protected from dust but more than half the bikes aren't? And to my mind it is a substantial towel that could cover both bike a lot more than it does. So it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was placed there to protect the bikes from dust. Mind you, I guess it could be used in the car to protect the upholstery/ back of the seats from the bikes leaning on them? IMO

 

[iiiii's]

"Steve" appeared in open court but he was a protected witness

So does that mean you heard his evidence but can't repeat it or that he gave his evidence under an alias? If you have the time, are you able to share what he said in court, please?

 

[SouthAussie]

I think @FromGermany1 is referring to this … the article was linked just above


In the interview, the foster father describes waking up on the morning of the day William would go missing, Friday, September 12, 2014.

He said both he and William stirred inside the room they were sleeping in together at about 5.50am.

'He always wakes up and he says, oh, you know I've had an accident, you know, he wets his... because he still wears ... pull ups.

'But for some reason he always manages to fill them. And I said are you wet and all that sort of stuff and I said, okay well then you need to go , get up first and you need to get changed first okay and then we know and we can have a cuddle.

Bombshell documents lift lid on William Tyrrell mystery

Explosive new documents from the William Tyrrell case reveal details about the toddler's life with his foster family, his violent behaviour and an accident days before he vanished.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The problem being that the DM called the pullups "a dirty nappy". The two things are different. Pullups being for children up to 5 years old who still have accidents. So they can still walk to the toilet, if they wake up, and pull the pullups down. (I know you probably know that, just explaining for those who might not.)

They even put pullups on the children after their Maccas stop, in case they fell asleep in the car and had an accident.

And there was no sign that foster dad was annoyed.

Somebody has dreamed up the annoyance factor. And the DM is wrongly reporting that it was a nappy. The DM is very unfair in this matter, and seems to want to cause trouble. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be only able to view the DM.

 

[SouthAussie]

Ok but that picture doesn't make sense to me. The handlebars are being protected from dust but more than half the bikes aren't? And to my mind it is a substantial towel that could cover both bike a lot more than it does. So it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was placed there to protect the bikes from dust. Mind you, I guess it could be used in the car to protect the upholstery/ back of the seats from the bikes leaning on them? IMO

Whether it makes sense or not, that is why people do it. I have a bike partially covered (handlebars and seat, but the towel keeps falling off the seat because it is not a big towel, so it just covers the handlebars most of the time), I have an esky covered with a towel, I have a pile of camping gear covered with a blanket ... tent, chairs, other things.

These things are all used, but if I keep them covered they are not grimey next time we go to use them. So my hands don't get all grimey when picking them up. So I don't have to clean the exterior of the items. So the handlebars are not grimey when my DD goes to ride her bike.

 

[SLouTh]

The problem being that the DM called the pullups "a dirty nappy". The two things are different. Pullups being for children up to 5 years old who still have accidents. So they can still walk to the toilet, if they wake up, and pull the pullups down.

They even put pullups on the children after their Maccas stop, in case they fell asleep in the car and had an accident.

And there was no sign that foster dad was annoyed.

Somebody has dreamed up the annoyance factor. And the DM is wrongly reporting that it was a nappy. The DM is very unfair in this matter, and seems to want to cause trouble. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be only able to view the DM.

The passage I actually quoted, from the linked article, didn’t refer to it to it like that …

I was careful not to use that part of the article … as I agree the headlines do not correspond with the what was written in the article …

It says the information came from an an “interview” so guessing it was from one of the FF statements … the actual part I quoted … and uses the word “pull ups” ….

Just to clarify, as I wasn’t buying into the “annoyance” part… I was actually just providing a link to what was being discussed …

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

The passage I actually quoted, from the linked article, didn’t refer to it to it like that …

I was careful not to use that part of the article … as I agree the headlines do not correspond with the what was written in the article …

It says the information came from an an “interview” so guessing it was from one of the FF statements … the actual part I quoted … and uses the word “pull ups” ….

Just to clarify, as I wasn’t buying into the “annoyance” part… I was actually just providing a link to what was being discussed …

IMO

Yes, I know. Thank you.

In one of the podcasts it went into it further, and explained about watching kids shows once William took his pullups off and was comfy. I think they were trying not to wake the whole household. imo

ETA: I will try to remember to put 'just jumping off your post' in the future.

 

[LolaAngelina]

Ok but that picture doesn't make sense to me. The handlebars are being protected from dust but more than half the bikes aren't? And to my mind it is a substantial towel that could cover both bike a lot more than it does. So it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was placed there to protect the bikes from dust. Mind you, I guess it could be used in the car to protect the upholstery/ back of the seats from the bikes leaning on them? IMO

What are your thoughts on why it was placed there and what is the relevance to his disappearance?

 

[SLouTh]

So does that mean you heard his evidence but can't repeat it or that he gave his evidence under an alias? If you have the time, are you able to share what he said in court, please?

I am definitely not claiming to have Dr Sleuths expertise on this subject… But this is from an earlier Thread and Post …. “Steve“ and “Mr Anonymous Sawmill Man“ are the same person ….

From Tinker Taylor‘s post …


Mr Anonymous Sawmill Man

Another man has entered the witness box, but we cannot legally identify him. He was linked to the sawmill property.

The man told the court he used to employ Abbott and was on very “friendly terms” with him. He described him as “very crafty” and “Mr fix it”.

The man told the court he once asked Abbott about the murder charge he was acquitted of and Abbott told him “a couple of mates borrowed my car... took this girl for a drive.. and she had an epileptic fit and died and 20 years later he’s been charged with this murder”.

The man told the court he thought it was “rubbish”.

The court is now being played a recorded phone call between this man and Abbott from August, 2019, while he was in jail. Abbott mentioned the Tyrrell case and the man asks why he’s being questioned and he replied “because I lived in the area... I’m not charged with anything”.

The man asks Abbott “where were you on that fu**ing Friday anyway?” and Abbott told him he was in Wauchope.

In another recorded phone call, the man asks Abbott about what the two young boys claimed he told them. When Abbott denied saying it, the man said “that must’ve come from somewhere, a little kid wouldn’t have made that up”. Abbott said “I don’t know... I never said that”.

he court heard in another phone call Abbott claimed to know “someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell” and asked the man to come and visit him so he could tell him the names.

The court heard the man then visited Abbott in jail, where he handed him “two small pieces of paper” with his handwriting on it. He took the paper to police. The court has not been told what was written on them.

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.

I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied: “100 per cent.”

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

A convicted pedophile cannot find anyone to vouch for his whereabouts on the day of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, a bombshell 7NEWS investigation has revealed.

7news.com.au

There may be more info that @drsleuth can add to this… please…

 

[SouthAussie]

I am definitely not claiming to have Dr Sleuths expertise on this subject… But this is from an earlier Thread and Post …. “Steve“ and “Mr Anonymous Sawmill Man“ are the same person ….

From Tinker Taylor‘s post …


Mr Anonymous Sawmill Man

Another man has entered the witness box, but we cannot legally identify him. He was linked to the sawmill property.

The man told the court he used to employ Abbott and was on very “friendly terms” with him. He described him as “very crafty” and “Mr fix it”.

The man told the court he once asked Abbott about the murder charge he was acquitted of and Abbott told him “a couple of mates borrowed my car... took this girl for a drive.. and she had an epileptic fit and died and 20 years later he’s been charged with this murder”.

The man told the court he thought it was “rubbish”.

The court is now being played a recorded phone call between this man and Abbott from August, 2019, while he was in jail. Abbott mentioned the Tyrrell case and the man asks why he’s being questioned and he replied “because I lived in the area... I’m not charged with anything”.

The man asks Abbott “where were you on that fu**ing Friday anyway?” and Abbott told him he was in Wauchope.

In another recorded phone call, the man asks Abbott about what the two young boys claimed he told them. When Abbott denied saying it, the man said “that must’ve come from somewhere, a little kid wouldn’t have made that up”. Abbott said “I don’t know... I never said that”.

he court heard in another phone call Abbott claimed to know “someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell” and asked the man to come and visit him so he could tell him the names.

The court heard the man then visited Abbott in jail, where he handed him “two small pieces of paper” with his handwriting on it. He took the paper to police. The court has not been told what was written on them.

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.

I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied: “100 per cent.”

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

A convicted pedophile cannot find anyone to vouch for his whereabouts on the day of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, a bombshell 7NEWS investigation has revealed.

7news.com.au

There may be more info that @drsleuth can add to this… please…

I would guess that FA wrote Geoff Owen's name on one of those pieces of paper. He was accusing GO in other instances.


"Did Frank Abbott say 'I know where William Tyrrell is, why don't you check Geoff Owen's place?", counsel assisting the Coroner Gerard Craddock SC asked Danny Parish, on whose family property Abbott lived for a period.
“Yes, he was telling everyone in Kew. He said it many times," Mr Parish responded.

Last week, the inquest heard Abbott had gone to another neighbour's home late at night to tell them the "news" that Geoff Owen was "a suspect in the William case and the police have come to see him". Link


And maybe he wrote Ray Porter's name on the other piece of paper. Due to RP's deathbed confession. (Just a guess)

 

[SLouTh]

I would guess that FA wrote Geoff Owen's name on one of those pieces of paper. He was accusing GO in other instances.


"Did Frank Abbott say 'I know where William Tyrrell is, why don't you check Geoff Owen's place?", counsel assisting the Coroner Gerard Craddock SC asked Danny Parish, on whose family property Abbott lived for a period.
“Yes, he was telling everyone in Kew. He said it many times," Mr Parish responded.

Last week, the inquest heard Abbott had gone to another neighbour's home late at night to tell them the "news" that Geoff Owen was "a suspect in the William case and the police have come to see him". Link


And maybe he wrote Ray Porter's name on the other piece of paper. Due to RP's deathbed confession. (Just a guess)

Knowing what we know of FA’s character to date, he probably did write those names …. Giving Police nothing useful …

I have often pondered what 2 names were on those pieces of paper ..

 

[bearbear]

How is changing a pair of pullups annoying? Little kids wet their pullups, and in the morning they need to get out of them because they are urine soaked and stinky.

I can't recall anywhere it being said that anyone was annoyed. I truly think the annoyance factor is something that has been dreamed up. Because some are searching for a reason that William disappeared, and there doesn't seem to really be one.

Changing pullups and not wanting a tshirt on are hardly reasons to get annoyed, parents just work their way through these things.

no, i dont think its annoying, i thought fps were annoyed and i see the snippets about the nappy im refering to have been posted above

 

[sleepinoz]

Ok but that picture doesn't make sense to me. The handlebars are being protected from dust but more than half the bikes aren't? And to my mind it is a substantial towel that could cover both bike a lot more than it does. So it's hard for me to come to the conclusion that it was placed there to protect the bikes from dust. Mind you, I guess it could be used in the car to protect the upholstery/ back of the seats from the bikes leaning on them? IMO

Under that towel are also the helmets, maybe that is what was being protected from dust etc? Different people different habits I spose.

 

[iiiii's]

In another recorded phone call, the man asks Abbott about what the two young boys claimed he told them. When Abbott denied saying it, the man said “that must’ve come from somewhere, a little kid wouldn’t have made that up”. Abbott said “I don’t know... I never said that”.

he court heard in another phone call Abbott claimed to know “someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell” and asked the man to come and visit him so he could tell him the names.

The court heard the man then visited Abbott in jail, where he handed him “two small pieces of paper” with his handwriting on it. He took the paper to police. The court has not been told what was written on them.

Post in thread 'Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54'
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #54


Case witness Steve, whose true identity is suppressed by a court order, claims a lot of evidence points to Abbott.

I believe that he, Frank, dropped (friend Ray Porter) off at hospital and had access to Ray’s car,” Steve told 7NEWS.

When asked whether the car claim supports evidence supplied by William’s foster mother, Steve replied: “100 per cent.”

NO ALIBI: Shock twist in investigation into missing toddler William Tyrrell

A convicted pedophile cannot find anyone to vouch for his whereabouts on the day of William Tyrrell’s disappearance, a bombshell 7NEWS investigation has revealed.

7news.com.au

There may be more info that @drsleuth can add to this… please…

RSBM There is no doubt that FA is a dangerous man who has done despicable things, who is also a liar. In regards to the suitcase incident that he told the children, I think it is a lie to overpower and terrify the children he had access to. The lie being that he pointed to a suitcase on top of his cupboard that he said he had buried WT in.

I think the "someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell" is TJ whom he met in prison and it must have got around to TJ that FA was spreading rumours about him because FA was locked up by himself for sometime to be kept safe. I wouldn't be surprised as a way of revenge if FA gave 2 names in association with TJ.

Tyrrell inquest hears of 'strange' meeting

A person of interest in William Tyrrell's disappearance approached three people to tell them about police targeting other...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Unless there is more that "Steve" has added that is factual with someone official, I'm not sure why he was given any time as his guess as to what has happened to WT is as good as anyone elses. IMO

 

[sleepinoz]

The problem being that the DM called the pullups "a dirty nappy". The two things are different. Pullups being for children up to 5 years old who still have accidents. So they can still walk to the toilet, if they wake up, and pull the pullups down. (I know you probably know that, just explaining for those who might not.)

They even put pullups on the children after their Maccas stop, in case they fell asleep in the car and had an accident.

And there was no sign that foster dad was annoyed.

Somebody has dreamed up the annoyance factor. And the DM is wrongly reporting that it was a nappy. The DM is very unfair in this matter, and seems to want to cause trouble. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to be only able to view the DM.

You know, I wish we had "Pull Ups" in my day. Being a boys mother, the 'old wives tale' was that if your boy doesn't stop wetting the bed at 2yo it won't happen until he's 7yo. I never believed this - but it was true.

I would have gladly have used pull ups every night instead of washing sheets and protectors every day for up to 7 years.

 

[CooperDyl]

RSBM There is no doubt that FA is a dangerous man who has done despicable things, who is also a liar. In regards to the suitcase incident that he told the children, I think it is a lie to overpower and terrify the children he had access to. The lie being that he pointed to a suitcase on top of his cupboard that he said he had buried WT in.

I think the "someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell" is TJ whom he met in prison and it must have got around to TJ that FA was spreading rumours about him because FA was locked up by himself for sometime to be kept safe. I wouldn't be surprised as a way of revenge if FA gave 2 names in association with TJ.

Tyrrell inquest hears of 'strange' meeting

A person of interest in William Tyrrell's disappearance approached three people to tell them about police targeting other...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Unless there is more that "Steve" has added that is factual with someone official, I'm not sure why he was given any time as his guess as to what has happened to WT is as good as anyone elses. IMO

FA was really strongly pushed (at least by media) to be the person investigators were digging into, and perhaps ‘closing in on’, until the hard steer towards FFC.
Surely there must have been SOME sort of evidence that completely changed the direction of the investigation….. right?

 

[SouthAussie]

no, i dont think its annoying, i thought fps were annoyed and i see the snippets about the nappy im refering to have been posted above

Sorry, bear, I didn't mean that you thought it was annoying.

It's the DM that called it a nappy (dirty nappy, at that). But if you read the part that Slouth quoted (same article), it was in fact a pullup that older children use.

 

[SouthAussie]

Knowing what we know of FA’s character to date, he probably did write those names …. Giving Police nothing useful …

I have often pondered what 2 names were on those pieces of paper ..

I was just reading way back in the threads about Geoff Owen. Remember they searched the Heron Creek property right while GO was testifying at the inquest in Taree?

And how GO volunteered to do the cemetery refurbishment and other tasks in that area about 6 months after William disappeared.

I think we wondered if he was nervous that someone might find William.

I wonder if he is still alive. He was very sick at the inquest. Only testified for ½ an hour and they were going to recall him later. (Which I read in one of drsleuth's post way back in the same threads.)

We are at the point now where other POIs might pass away, and if they know something we will never find out.

 

[LolaAngelina]

RSBM There is no doubt that FA is a dangerous man who has done despicable things, who is also a liar. In regards to the suitcase incident that he told the children, I think it is a lie to overpower and terrify the children he had access to. The lie being that he pointed to a suitcase on top of his cupboard that he said he had buried WT in.

I think the "someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell" is TJ whom he met in prison and it must have got around to TJ that FA was spreading rumours about him because FA was locked up by himself for sometime to be kept safe. I wouldn't be surprised as a way of revenge if FA gave 2 names in association with TJ.

Tyrrell inquest hears of 'strange' meeting

A person of interest in William Tyrrell's disappearance approached three people to tell them about police targeting other...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Unless there is more that "Steve" has added that is factual with someone official, I'm not sure why he was given any time as his guess as to what has happened to WT is as good as anyone elses. IMO

You don’t think he spoke to police and told them all this already? The coroner is looking into everyone the police investigated so she obviously wants to hear from Steve. The whole process includes people saying what they believe or their opinion.

 

[SouthAussie]

RSBM There is no doubt that FA is a dangerous man who has done despicable things, who is also a liar. In regards to the suitcase incident that he told the children, I think it is a lie to overpower and terrify the children he had access to. The lie being that he pointed to a suitcase on top of his cupboard that he said he had buried WT in.

I think the "someone who was alleged to be involved in taking Tyrrell" is TJ whom he met in prison and it must have got around to TJ that FA was spreading rumours about him because FA was locked up by himself for sometime to be kept safe. I wouldn't be surprised as a way of revenge if FA gave 2 names in association with TJ.

Tyrrell inquest hears of 'strange' meeting

A person of interest in William Tyrrell's disappearance approached three people to tell them about police targeting other...

www.canberratimes.com.au

Unless there is more that "Steve" has added that is factual with someone official, I'm not sure why he was given any time as his guess as to what has happened to WT is as good as anyone elses. IMO

I still think FA is a hot contender.
I still think GO is a contender.
And I still want to hear from PS why he said the things that he said in the secret recordings in his house. (And what about the rest of the unheard tapes?)

There are also others that we don't know much about, like the guy who saw someone travelling on Batar Creek Road in a white vehicle, leaning over and pushing something down into the footwell on the passenger side.

There were a lot of people heard from/about at the inquest that cannot be dismissed. imo