Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

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  • #821
Always great to have a reminder of early articles…

One thing I noticed was how “drivable” the bush tracks were … even with a smaller car …


IMG_1220.png



IMG_1219.png


From the same article

I wonder exactly where (which bush track) ???? The set of small foot prints were found ?????

On a bush track, a knife sheath and a set of small footprints were found, but police discounted them as a lead.

IMO
 
  • #822
That's interesting that they rarely visited. Even when the Foster Grandfather was alive???? JMO
Maybe distance???
Roughly a 4 hour trip each way … (maybe longer with traffic) with small children in the car …

Just surmising ……
IMO
 
  • #823
I wonder what prompted the journalist to write this article and publish about William’s Case today, “out of the blue”, so to speak???

Is it a long overdue apology to Mr Spedding ??? (From The Guardian)

Or, are they suggesting, that possibly the Foster Parents have approached The Bridge of Hope Innocence Initiative at RMIT, for advice??

Or, possibly they are suggesting that the Police have it wrong?? With the inclusion of these two paragraphs ????

They develop tunnel vision, they specifically have in mind a certain scenario that has happened and … there was a narrow focus on building that particular case to the exclusion of looking at other options,” he said.

“There’s a real human element here that needs to be taken into account, [police] have their own cognitive bias, and can be led down roads that don’t go anywhere.”



Honestly, I don’t know the answer… but it is thought provoking to me… it just seems a bit odd …. Especially in regards to timing …

This also seems a bit odd ….. to be mentioned again, in just a few days after the last article attempting to correlate the recent death in Kendall with William’s disappearance …

These included sightings of children in cars near Kendall about the time William went missing.


Any thoughts??

IMO
It does appear that there are correlations between how BS and FFC have been treated via the media during this investigation. Appears. One was treated as guilty from the get go without the evidence to support it, one was completely ignored for years by media because the police publicly cleared them even with no alibi and discrepencies in their story. Other suspects and scenarios have been highlighted at the inquest and over the years, AJ, PB, DN, PS, connections to the bio family, connections to grandparents groups, people who have reported suspect conversations, chicken man, FA. The sighting of a child in the back of a car has been investigated although rather late, so I can only surmise that the journo who wrote this has not really followed the case.

The FF's do have a pr company in their employ who have a network stable of different professionals who have been happy to weigh in an opinion over the course of the case in biased podcasts, radio and tv interviews and in small articles here and there. Their mission is to keep providing the "accurate" narrative that the FF couple want out in the media about what they think is important to know in WT's case.

So far the FF couple despite findings in their cases, have been proven to have committed fraud on a house sale, verbal and physical assaults and intimidation on a child.... that's so far. MOO
 
  • #824
Always great to have a reminder of early articles…

One thing I noticed was how “drivable” the bush tracks were … even with a smaller car …


View attachment 463807


View attachment 463808

From the same article

I wonder exactly where (which bush track) ???? The set of small foot prints were found ?????

On a bush track, a knife sheath and a set of small footprints were found, but police discounted them as a lead.

IMO
They don't look like bush tracks to me.
 
  • #825
Always great to have a reminder of early articles…

One thing I noticed was how “drivable” the bush tracks were … even with a smaller car …


View attachment 463807


View attachment 463808

From the same article

I wonder exactly where (which bush track) ???? The set of small foot prints were found ?????

On a bush track, a knife sheath and a set of small footprints were found, but police discounted them as a lead.

IMO
These are roads in both photos IMO.
 
  • #826
DBM
 
  • #827
Always great to have a reminder of early articles…

One thing I noticed was how “drivable” the bush tracks were … even with a smaller car …


View attachment 463807


View attachment 463808

From the same article

I wonder exactly where (which bush track) ???? The set of small foot prints were found ?????

On a bush track, a knife sheath and a set of small footprints were found, but police discounted them as a lead.

IMO
I think they look like Logans Crossing. Google Maps
 
  • #828
JMO - I have been wondering why:-
  • …. the FM might have had difficulty in remembering the events of that fateful morning;
  • …. and consequently, Police have viewed the inconsistency in FM relating what and when events occurred as contributing to her now being named as POI.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________

(June 29, 2023 - 9:30AM Stunning claim from detectives about what happened to William Tyrrell's body)
“Investigators claim the foster mother was spotted driving the foster grandmother's car in bushland near a riding school in Kendall, a short drive from their home.
It is there where it's suspected she dumped William's remains.
According to The Daily Telegraph, there are also claims of inconsistencies with the foster mother's story on September 12 when she reported him missing.
______________________________________________________________________________________________

PHOTOS:

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure Underlined BM
1) “M: I took the photo, I took three photos, I do photo books, of what we do as a family every year. So every time we go somewhere I have my camera and I just take pictures of what they’re doing, and I thought Mum’s getting old, be really good for William and his sister to have memories of being at Mum’s. And my Dad passed away in February that year so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad passed away, and we were going to go visit Dad’s grave, they were drawing some pictures to put on his grave, they were sending messages to Opa and things like that. I just thought, I want to just take some pictures of that.

So I look at that picture and I remember what we were doing and why we were doing it. I remember William just being absolutely beside himself with happiness at being at Nanna’s house, I remember the discussion with William about putting on his Spiderman clothes because I wanted him to wear a singlet, he didn’t want to wear a singlet, so the compromise was he’d wear a Spiderman t-shirt underneath his Spiderman clothes, so he was Spidermanned out, completely.”

New photos of William Tyrrell released five years after disappearance
{NB: ….. There were 5 photos taken by the FM that morning!}

WHEN IT HAPPENED
:

2) “P: When did things start to go awry?
M:
Well, when I realised that William was missing, I just, I think back to that moment where I just went, I can’t hear him, why, why can’t I hear him, and I walked around, seriously it was just 2, 3 metres away from where we were sitting, and I’ve just walked out, and I just see nothing. I see nothing, I hear nothing, I’m speechless. I’m walking around in a circle on the spot thinking, where is he, why can’t I see him, and I’m yelling out, “William, where are you, you need to talk to Mummy, tell me where you are, I can’t see you, I can’t hear you, where are you?”, and he was nowhere, and I’m just standing there thinking, how could he just disappear because he just disappeared and I don’t get it, I don’t get it.
P: So you raised the alarm immediately?
M:
Well I raced around for a bit, then went down and got the neighbour to help, then D came back, because he had a meeting.
__________________________________________________________________________________________

ANYONE SUSPICIOUS IN THE AREA?

Triple 000 call made after William Tyrrell went missing | Daily Mail Online
Operator: There wasn't anyone um suspicious in the area? Any vehicles?
Foster Mother: No, no, no, no well not that I no not that I'm aware of. We were just, I was out there talking with my mum and my other daughter so...

Doubt over William Tyrrell foster mother's claim two cars seen in street
“William’s foster mother says she saw two unknown cars in the street just before the boy went missing, but police have been unable to back up that account, an inquest has been told.
The inquest into the three-year-old’s suspected abduction heard on Monday the foster mother – who can’t be named for legal reasons – told police she saw the sedans parked in the street outside William’s foster grandmother’s home on the morning he disappeared.”

William Tyrrell inquest: Foster mum told 'different stories'
“The female foster carer gave a statement to police on September 14, 2014 that "does not make any reference to sighting vehicles", the inquest heard.
But on a filmed "walk-through" four days later, she recalled seeing two cars, one grey and one white with "dark tinted windows".
__________________________________________________________________________________________

FM's STATEMENT AND INCONSISTENCY ABOUT DRIVER:

William Tyrrell's foster mother saw a man waiting in a car
“The mum told the inquest that William's sister was riding her bike at the front of the property at Kendall, on the New South Wales north coast, when she pointed and said: 'Mummy, who's that car?'
“The man was 'not overly tanned', had no facial hair or glasses.The foster mother was questioned at the inquest over a previous 2015 statement where she told police a different account of seeing the car driving down the street.
Then, she said: 'I cannot remember whether the windows were down. I could not see any of the occupants'.
Asked to explain the difference in the statements, the foster mum said she had just read the police statement, 'and I just thought, I don't know why I said that.'”
__________________________________________________________________________________________

MAZDA DRIVE NOT MENTIONED UNTIL FM WALKTHROUGH:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“A car seized by police searching for the remains of William Tyrrell was allegedly driven by his foster mother on the morning he vanished seven years ago.
“Daily Mail Australia understands the Mazda hatchback, which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother, was allegedly driven by his foster mother on September 12, 2014 - the morning the three-year-old disappeared.
A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall. That area is the middle of a massive forensic police search.”

Stunning claim from detectives about what happened to William Tyrrell's body
“Investigators claim the foster mother was spotted driving the foster grandmother's car in bushland near a riding school in Kendall, a short drive from their home.
It is there where it's suspected she dumped William's remains.
According to The Daily Telegraph, there are also claims of inconsistencies with the foster mother's story on September 12 when she reported him missing.

His foster mother has always denied any wrongdoing.”

Police walkthrough reveals details about William Tyrrell's foster parents
“Then she said she saw a "semi-trailer coming down really fast and ... he (the driver) thought I pulled over, because he acknowledged me saying thanks for pulling over, but I pulled over because I had just got my head out the window looking for William".

Triple 000 call made after William Tyrrell went missing | Daily Mail Online
“The mother, wearing activewear, runs her hands through her hair as she describes the frantic search.”
"I get to the riding school and I just think, 'he's not here'," she told police.
"Then I bring the car back up and I just run out and look for him again
."
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/tyrrell-detectives-believe-william-was-dumped-in-the-bush-by-foster-mum/news-story/821454f8f1a0c08a53fe92a080719c4c#:~:text=The%20Daily%20Telegraph%20can%20reveal,she%20dumped%20the%20boy%27s%20body. Paywalled for some …..
“The Daily Telegraph can reveal detectives claim the mother was seen driving on a bush road close to the riding school in Kendall on the NSW mid north coast on September 12, 2014. It was around that time police believe she dumped the boy's body.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

ANOTHER STORY BY FM:

Eerie comments William Tyrrell's foster mum made after he vanished
She described calling out to William from inside and asking 'can you see daddy's car?' as he pulled into the house.
'There was no answer.'
Within 20 minutes she had called police in a panic to report she could not find him and she suspect ted someone had taken him, she said.”

60 Minutes Interview: (at 11:48 )… "I remember saying “Can you see Daddy’s car and there was no answer; there was no answer “ NB: She said that twice)
__________________________________________________________________________________________

LATER ADMISSION OF GUILT – ASSAULT OF YOUNG GIRL:

https://www.kidspot.com.au/news/she...r/news-story/7b5b18775c7bbf0f0712df5ab8123b65
“The foster mother has pleaded not guilty to assaulting a child who is not William and who cannot be identified for legal reasons, common assault and two counts of intimidation.”

Moment Tyrrell’s foster mother kicked child caught on tape
“William Tyrrell’s foster mother can be heard kicking and threatening to “slap” a young child on secret recordings made by police as part of their investigation into the missing toddler, a court has heard.
The missing boy’s foster mother has pleaded guilty to two counts of assaulting a child, who is not William, however is fighting a string of other charges at Parramatta Local Court.”


Can anyone comment on these inconsistencies/discrepancies ... or know of any further inconsistencies that can be added?

Edited to remove a smiley face inadvertently included.
 
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  • #829
and consequently, Police have viewed the inconsistency in FM relating what and when events occurred as contributing to her now being named as POI.
Quite a post @Couldbe and certainly lots to think about …

I have also been wondering what evidence the Police have, in relation to the 2 charges referred to the ODPP?? (As they must some evidence as surely they can’t consider charging someone based purely on a “theory” ) JMO (Yes, I understand circumstantial evidence)

The Daily Telegraph can reveal detectives claim the mother was seen driving on a bush road close to the riding school in Kendall on the NSW mid north coast on September 12, 2014. It was around that time police believe she dumped the boy's body.
I am wondering when this witness ^^^^^^^^ came forward??? And what else they saw???


Police did say that they had new evidence prior to the “Big Dig” ….


From The Australian, November 15, 2021.

<modsnip: Removed direct quote from a paywalled article / copyright violation>

Paywalled for some


And from The Telegraph September 7, 2021.

The Daily Telegraph understands the new suspect will be interviewed soon and confronted with the fresh information uncovered by investigators.


I am wondering if this witness provided information specifically related to the possible “interfering with a corpse“ charge???

9News can reveal detectives handed a brief to the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) this month with evidence against William's foster mother - who cannot be named - recommending she be charged with perverting the course of justice and interfering with a corpse.


The other evidence I have wondered about, in regards to this particular alleged “charge”, is, have Police gone back to the initial forensic testing report of FGM car, and found FM fingerprint evidence on the car boot area???
Would this have been enough to seize the FGM car in 2021??

We know Police did initially forensically test the FGM car, and one source for that is from Caroline Overington’s Book, Missing William Tyrrell.
(Chapter 7)

IMG_1223.png



Pure speculation, and
All IMO
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #830
Quite a post @Couldbe and certainly lots to think about …

I have also been wondering what evidence the Police have, in relation to the 2 charges referred to the ODPP?? (As they must some evidence as surely they can’t consider charging someone based purely on a “theory” ) JMO (Yes, I understand circumstantial evidence)
In regard to the Perverting the course of justice recommended charging of the FM, maybe they found particular inconsistencies via:
William Tyrrell case: Police take two key suspects to court
“On Tuesday, 10 News journalist Lia Harris revealed the move by police she believes hinted they may have changed their tactics in the search for William.
Harris hosted the 'Where's William Tyrrell?' podcast, which included multiple interviews with the boy's foster family and many others.
Speaking to 2GB's Ben Fordham on Tuesday, Harris said police issued a subpoena from the Coroner's Court about two weeks ago that covered "everything that we had" in relation to the investigation.
In creating the podcast, Harris said she had uncovered audio, files, documents along with multiple interviews with William's foster family.
"It wasn't surprising that they wanted all of that because we already knew that we had uncovered things that perhaps police hadn't found," she said.
"But what was surprising is that it came two years after the podcast was born and two years after the coronial inquest."
Harris said this signified to her that police had taken a new direction with the search."
 
  • #831
In regard to the Perverting the course of justice recommended charging of the FM, maybe they found particular inconsistencies via:
William Tyrrell case: Police take two key suspects to court
“On Tuesday, 10 News journalist Lia Harris revealed the move by police she believes hinted they may have changed their tactics in the search for William.
Harris hosted the 'Where's William Tyrrell?' podcast, which included multiple interviews with the boy's foster family and many others.
Speaking to 2GB's Ben Fordham on Tuesday, Harris said police issued a subpoena from the Coroner's Court about two weeks ago that covered "everything that we had" in relation to the investigation.
In creating the podcast, Harris said she had uncovered audio, files, documents along with multiple interviews with William's foster family.
"It wasn't surprising that they wanted all of that because we already knew that we had uncovered things that perhaps police hadn't found," she said.
"But what was surprising is that it came two years after the podcast was born and two years after the coronial inquest."
Harris said this signified to her that police had taken a new direction with the search."
Great point with the BBY

And

From your linked article ….

“I'm not anticipating a swift end to the investigation by any means."

Wasn't that the understatement of the year!!!



IMO
(A little light humour in such a tragic case …. )
 
  • #832
“I'm not anticipating a swift end to the investigation by any means."

Wasn't that the understatement of the year!!!
IMO
(A little light humour in such a tragic case …. )
And if you will pardon the pun:
(' ...a swift end to the investigation ...')

“At the inquest on Thursday, deputy state coroner Harriet Grahame agreed to an application by Michelle Swift, counsel for Tyrrell's biological father, for further forensic testing of the image.”
William Tyrrell: Twist as questions emerge over when iconic last photo was taken
 
  • #833
Also recall the actual video walk through done of the FF and the dective retracing his steps from when he arrived home and got out of his car and the places he searched.

This walk through had the FF saying -" Bleep" were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car. So assume it was the FGM, FM and FD sitting on the verandah IMO. This has been bleeped so can't ascertain perfectly but believe JMO that it was 3 names identified by him sitting on the verandah.

They ask him if WT is with him. Then he starts racing around to look for WT. This just doesn't add up to some of the FM versions. IMO. But I believe this version the most as it ties in with the neighbour. IMO
 
  • #834
I have also been wondering what evidence the Police have, in relation to the 2 charges referred to the ODPP?? (As they must some evidence as surely they can’t consider charging someone based purely on a “theory” ) JMO (Yes, I understand circumstantial evidence)

Police did say that they had new evidence prior to the “Big Dig” ….

And from The Telegraph September 7, 2021.

The Daily Telegraph understands the new suspect will be interviewed soon and confronted with the fresh information uncovered by investigators.
JMO - If that interview was conducted by the NSWCC, they will have recorded their questioning of the new suspect (FM), but her answers have not been made public.
The other evidence I have wondered about, in regards to this particular alleged “charge”, is, have Police gone back to the initial forensic testing report of FGM car, and found FM fingerprint evidence on the car boot area???
Would this have been enough to seize the FGM car in 2021??

We know Police did initially forensically test the FGM car, and one source for that is from Caroline Overington’s Book, Missing William Tyrrell.
(Chapter 7
“Detectives from Strike Force Rosann seized a silver Mazda hatchback from a home at Gymea in Sydney's south under a coronial order a week ago. They are investigating whether it was used to move William's body from his foster grandmother's home in Kendall on the NSW mid-north coast, where he was last seen in September 2014.”
Updated: 09:56 AEDT, 17 November 2021 Police seize car belonging to William Tyrrell's foster grandmother

If fingerprint evidence on the car boot area was recorded when the Mazda was initially forensically tested that would be a red flag, and once Rosann Detectives decided to focus on the Fosters (Jubelin ambushed them for interviewing), it would have made sense to question the FM on that point. We could also wonder if the FM was questioned at any length about her Mazda drive that morning (Maybe there are more details in the FM Walkthrough that haven't been made available to the Public!)

MOO - Maybe Rosann are still in possession of the FGM's Mazda, and that could indicate they have found some important evidence following their forensic testing of it.
 
  • #835
Also recall the actual video walk through done of the FF and the dective retracing his steps from when he arrived home and got out of his car and the places he searched.

This walk through had the FF saying -" Bleep" were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car. So assume it was the FGM, FM and FD sitting on the verandah IMO. This has been bleeped so can't ascertain perfectly but believe JMO that it was 3 names identified by him sitting on the verandah.

They ask him if WT is with him. Then he starts racing around to look for WT. This just doesn't add up to some of the FM versions. IMO. But I believe this version the most as it ties in with the neighbour. IMO
Nightrider17, that is a very good point (If the 'Bleep' and the FGM, FM and FD tie in).
JMO - I also add to support your opinion:
... that those Fosters were sitting on the verandah ... with the following:

M: It was in my head and even Mum, while I was talking with Mum while we were waiting and I was doing the frantic thing and running through the house and opening up cupboards and all sorts of stuff, I just kept going through my head, somebody’s taken him, I can’t, in my mind it was the only logical explanation for what could have happened.
D: A child in that situation, in that circumstance, in those surrounds would not just disappear into thin air. I mean I had my doubts, I did not know what to believe at the time, especially the first hour or two I didn’t know what to believe but I guess my mind was wondering as to what could have happened to him. I just had to keep on going and have the support of the community around us that were also looking for him. The police were on the scene within minutes, which was absolutely fantastic, but I didn’t know what to believe.
 
  • #836
JMO - If that interview was conducted by the NSWCC, they will have recorded their questioning of the new suspect (FM), but her answers have not been made public.
One thing, that has me intrigued with the NSWCC involvement, is that FM appeared for questioning, over a two day period…..

The foster mother was summonsed to appear before the Crime Commission along with William's foster father on November 10 and 11 last year.



To date, we have heard very little about those questions and answers, relating specifically to William’s Case…..(only an alleged balcony fall theory, and alleged disposal of William’s body, by FM using FGM car)
Were other scenario’s were put forward? And was FM confronted with the new evidence, mentioned in the thread above???


That remainder of that information, and the lines of questioning, by NSWCC is being kept very much “under wraps” … by the Police and Courts… IMO


And yet FF was only questioned for up to 2 hours
(IMO his alibi that morning checks out, and he is not a POI)

November 11, 2021: FD testified at NSW Crime Commission Surrey Hills headquarters “for up to two hours” after being summonsed.
William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to lying

There appears to be large discrepancy in the amounts of time spent questioning, by the NSWCC, for both FP’s, and I have wondered why that is .???? (2 days versus 2hrs)

IMO only …

EDIT - Format
 
  • #837
This walk through had the FF saying -" Bleep" were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car. So assume it was the FGM, FM and FD sitting on the verandah IMO. This has been bleeped so can't ascertain perfectly but believe JMO that it was 3 names identified by him sitting on the verandah.
Personally speaking, I think the FGM and William’s sister, were still sitting on the back small verandah when FF arrived home …. (2 of the 3)

I believe that FM met FF on the driveway, as he returned to FGM house that morning…


By Gary Jubelin, for The Telegraph

When William’s foster father arrived back at the house, sometime around 10.30am, he met his wife in the driveway.



M: It was in my head and even Mum, while I was talking with Mum while we were waiting
I have often pondered this statement ….

Waiting for what??

Waiting for FF to arrive home???
Waiting to raise the alarm that William was missing?? (Speculation only)

ALL MOO
 
  • #838
Personally speaking, I think the FGM and William’s sister, were still sitting on the back small verandah when FF arrived home …. (2 of the 3)
I believe that FM met FF on the driveway, as he returned to FGM house that morning…
By Gary Jubelin, for The Telegraph
When William’s foster father arrived back at the house, sometime around 10.30am, he met his wife in the driveway.
Slouth, It seems rather a coincidence that she happened to be out there just as the FF drove up.
I wonder how it can be accepted 'as fact' ... that the FF met the FM in the driveway ... Jubelin said that because both the FF and the FM had told him that was the case!

Do you think it is possible that (Because the FM had seen the 'home in five' text sent to her by the FF, they were expecting him to roll up any minute), the FM and FGM were sitting on the back patio talking while they were waiting. ( Hence, her 'while we were waiting' comment).

In his Walkthrough the FF said -" 'Bleep' were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car."
Important question needing an answer:
I really don't think that the FF would be able to see (From the driveway at the front of the house) ... exactly who was sitting on the verandah!! SO WHY DID HE SAY THAT?
 
  • #839
Slouth, It seems rather a coincidence that she happened to be out there just as the FF drove up.
I wonder how it can be accepted 'as fact' ... that the FF met the FM in the driveway ... Jubelin said that because both the FF and the FM had told him that was the case!

Do you think it is possible that (Because the FM had seen the 'home in five' text sent to her by the FF, they were expecting him to roll up any minute), the FM and FGM were sitting on the back patio talking while they were waiting. ( Hence, her 'while we were waiting' comment).

In his Walkthrough the FF said -" 'Bleep' were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car."
Important question needing an answer:
I really don't think that the FF would be able to see (From the driveway at the front of the house) ... exactly who was sitting on the verandah!! SO WHY DID HE SAY THAT?
The Walkthrough with FF - was a visual that you saw him reenact and it started after he had got out of his car and was basically standing to the side of the back verandah with the detective and pointing to those that were sitting on the verandah. JMO

So this was not in the driveway. It was after he had parked his car and got out. IMO
 
  • #840
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