Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

[nightrider17]

So it appears IMO now that I have rewatched. The FF was talking to FM and walking towards the back verandah and then he points to that verandah and says they beep were sitting down. So it appears he was met by the FM on arrival in my opinion and she asked if WT was with him. JMO

 

[JLZ]

Another question arising from the walkthrough, is did MFC leave his computer equipment in the car when he jumped out, passed the verandah and immediately started searching? I would say the walkthrough is not entirely believable in its details of those first moments.

 

[SLouTh]

Slouth, It seems rather a coincidence that she happened to be out there just as the FF drove up.
I wonder how it can be accepted 'as fact' ... that the FF met the FM in the driveway ... Jubelin said that because both the FF and the FM had told him that was the case!

This extract is from Caroline Overington's book Missing William Tyrrell
And the information is presumably from Police Statements, (as journalists have privileged access, under FOI Act)

If this has been written in chronological order, as it appears to have been, then it does say that FM received the home in five text before running out to meet FF on the driveway…
It just doesn’t tell us where FM ran FROM …

From Chapter 4

Do you think it is possible that (Because the FM had seen the 'home in five' text sent to her by the FF, they were expecting him to roll up any minute), the FM and FGM were sitting on the back patio talking while they were waiting. ( Hence, her 'while we were waiting' comment).

I think this the “grey area”: of the FM Timeline …..?????
It is alleged that there is missing time in the FM Timeline, (or lack of alibi in FM timeline) from when she first ran around the high verandah side of the house, to look for William, to when FF arrived home ????
IIRC From FGM Walkthru when she says FM went to look for William, and then that FF appeared to know William was missing as soon as he exited the car ….. (that would appear to indicate that FF found out on the driveway that William was missing …. IMO ) and that FM was on the driveway side of the FGM house at that time..

In his Walkthrough the FF said -" 'Bleep' were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car."
Important question needing an answer: I really don't think that the FF would be able to see (From the driveway at the front of the house) ... exactly who was sitting on the verandah!! SO WHY DID HE SAY THAT?

In my opinion ONLY ….. FF said that because he believed William had only just gone missing …. and by “Bleep” still sitting on the back verandah, and not yet searching, for William, indicated to FF that was indeed the case …
It is still my own belief, that it was FGM and William’s sister still sitting on the back verandah ..when FF raced out of the car to start searching…

All IMO

 

[JLZ]

This extract is from Caroline Overington's book Missing William Tyrrell
And the information is presumably from Police Statements, (as journalists have privileged access, under FOI Act)

If this has been written in chronological order, as it appears to have been, then it does say that FM received the home in five text before running out to meet FF on the driveway…
It just doesn’t tell us where FM ran FROM …

From Chapter 4

View attachment 464262





I think this the “grey area”: of the FM Timeline …..?????
It is alleged that there is missing time in the FM Timeline, (or lack of alibi in FM timeline) from when she first ran around the high verandah side of the house, to look for William, to when FF arrived home ????
IIRC From FGM Walkthru when she says FM went to look for William, and then that FF appeared to know William was missing as soon as he exited the car ….. (that would appear to indicate that FF found out on the driveway that William was missing …. IMO ) and that FM was on the driveway side of the FGM house at that time..



In my opinion ONLY ….. FF said that because he believed William had only just gone missing …. and by “Bleep” still sitting on the back verandah, and not yet searching, for William, indicated to FF that was indeed the case …
It is still my own belief, that it was FGM and William’s sister still sitting on the back verandah ..when FF raced out of the car to start searching…

All IMO

If FFC ran down the driveway and met MFC as he was turning in, and that's where they had that exchange about whether William was with him . . . he still has to drive up the driveway and park the car and get out. In that time, would she have made her own way up the driveway and be back on the porch when MFC runs past? Or would she necessarily be behind him?

 

[SLouTh]

If FFC ran down the driveway and met MFC as he was turning in, and that's where they had that exchange about whether William was with him . . . he still has to drive up the driveway and park the car and get out. In that time, would she have made her own way up the driveway and be back on the porch when MFC runs past? Or would she necessarily be behind him?

Personal opinion only, but I would think still behind him… maybe explaining what happened in the background …. “He was playing here on the grass“ ..etc

I can’t see the point of FM rushing up, to sit back down on the back patio, while he is running past searching … IMO

Another question arising from the walkthrough, is did MFC leave his computer equipment in the car when he jumped out, passed the verandah and immediately started searching? I would say the walkthrough is not entirely believable in its details of those first moments.

Again,
Personal opinion only, (as IIRC we don’t know the actual answer)… But if it was me I wouldn’t even think of removing computer etc from the car …. I would just leave it all there…
However, not every one reacts the same way in a given situation….

ALL IMO

 

[Couldbe]

So it appears IMO now that I have rewatched. The FF was talking to FM and walking towards the back verandah and then he points to that verandah and says they beep were sitting down.

I am not sure how it fits in exactly .... but:
“The foster father texts the foster mother saying he is five minutes away.
On or after 10.30am: The foster father returns in his vehicle and when told by the foster mother William has disappeared, the foster father "just bolted ... running for William".”
Missing boy William Tyrrell's doomed life

JMO - It can be difficult to grasp and interpret exactly how that event occurred.
E.g.: “Asked by counsel assisting the inquest Gerard Craddock, SC, why he had immediately run off to search instead of asking his wife where she had already looked, he said he wanted to “branch out” the search.
Mr Craddock: “You didn’t stop and have a conversation abut where she had searched? Any reason for that?”
https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...o/news-story/c785efb1ae0d0864af718ca48b6775a6

So it appears he was met by the FM on arrival in my opinion and she asked if WT was with him. JMO

JMO - The FM would have been in an anxious state, and that question would have been asked of the FF immediately.

 

[Megnut]

Oh, I'll bet the female foster caregiver was doing the frantic thing.

The timeline of events is emerging.

Personally I think the male caregiver left twice. The second time he left IMO was because the household was a zoo. It wasn't about internet access, it was for QUIET.

While he was away, something happened. Impelling the female caregiver to take a clandestine drive, of which she told no one. Key, I believe she intentionally took no phone. It was indeed a hurried, harried, frantic drive. Arrived back home, saw the text from her husband, raced back out, all the while forming and reforming a story.

While we were waiting....

Waiting for what?

The police to arrive? No sense searching anymore if you've "decided" he's been taken...

Waiting for the male caregiver to return home? As a maje-believe starting point?

I fully believe she intended to gaslight the foster grandmother and Wm's sister, confident she could bend time with them. Wm roared. Daddy Tiger. Then Mommy Monster. [Gap in time.] Then rummaging through cabinets.

But the foster grandmother did note a passage of time, enough so that she got up to investigate.... 5 minutes? 20? How cold was her tea? How many times was tea made and served?

IMO the male caregiver was (purposefully) led to believe that Wm had just disappeared, hence his rushed response. Wm would've been very near, had he just wandered off. No one bothered to mention it had been a while. Long enough for a scenic drive....

The clues are there. Between the story-crafting on the one side and the male caregiver and foster grandmother's recollections and reactions on the other.

I think we're getting very close to piecing it together!

JMO

 

[Awakening]

So it appears IMO now that I have rewatched. The FF was talking to FM and walking towards the back verandah and then he points to that verandah and says they beep were sitting down. So it appears he was met by the FM on arrival in my opinion and she asked if WT was with him. JMO

IMO, assuming FM is not involved, it’s at this point that FM realises WT is missing.

She wasn’t panicked yet, she was perhaps thinking where is he when she sees FF and says “is William with you?”

I think up until then she’d assumed William was on the property somewhere and wasn’t that concerned.

I can’t decide if everything since then has been her trying to cover up her negligence or if she was indeed involved.

 

[FromGermany1]

IMO, assuming FM is not involved, it’s at this point that FM realises WT is missing.

She wasn’t panicked yet, she was perhaps thinking where is he when she sees FF and says “is William with you?”

I think up until then she’d assumed William was on the property somewhere and wasn’t that concerned.

I can’t decide if everything since then has been her trying to cover up her negligence or if she was indeed involved.

FFC drove away with her mother's car, before MFC returned back home from his meeting. If she did it to search for little W (I don't think so), she was already concerned or she had other reasons for her secret trip to the area around the riding school.

 

[Megnut]

FFC drove away with her mother's car, before MFC returned back home from his meeting. If she did it to search for little W (I don't think so), she was already concerned or she had other reasons for her secret trip to the area around the riding school.

Exactly.

Asking the male caregiver if Wm was with him was IMO the kick-off to one story. Wm went to look for the male caregiver... all to imply fresh events.

No mention of having searched through the house. No mention of a drive.

IF the female caregiver is responsible for Wm's disappearance, before she could gaslight the emergency dispatcher and LE, she had to gaslight the three people within the household. That took some fancy footwork.

JMO

 

[Couldbe]

IMO, assuming FM is not involved, it’s at this point that FM realises WT is missing.

She wasn’t panicked yet, she was perhaps thinking where is he when she sees FF and says “is William with you?”

I think up until then she’d assumed William was on the property somewhere and wasn’t that concerned.

I can’t decide if everything since then has been her trying to cover up her negligence or if she was indeed involved.

Awakening, you make a good point about the FM possibly covering up her negligence.
Questions about that possibility (What did she do?):

• Look for William, and when the Searchers didn't find him .. presume/promote abduction theory;
• Not just tell the truth to LE about her negligence;
• Concoct timelines to suit covering her negligence;
• One fabrication led to another .. which caused inconsistencies to then creep into her timelines;
• She thought that she could be charged with 'Negligence' .. resulting in a 'Manslaughter' charge;
• What about the FGM? Did she agree to relate timelines to LE .. to back up the FM's covering?
  And that caused the inconsistencies between the stories told to LE by the two of them?

FFC drove away with her mother's car, before MFC returned back home from his meeting. If she did it to search for little W (I don't think so), she was already concerned or she had other reasons for her secret trip to the area around the riding school.

Yes .... Her reason for the drive would be: one or the other! One being to look for William / Or to hide something to do with William / or William himself.

All MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

Why did little W disappear in Kendall? Why did he not disappear in Bali or Sydney?

1. Because in Kendall conveniently "the tents were pulled down" soon by the sale of grandma's home.
2. Because grandma knew a lottt of people, whose record was not necessarily unblemished, all good acquaintances of herself or her deceased husband.
3. Because in Sydney there is no trusted "village police" to show up first, who you would have known since kindergarten.
4. Bali wasn't the usual terrain, where you would know your people and would trust in them (no matter, how untrustworthy they really are).
All MOO.

 

[SouthAussie]

Why did little W disappear in Kendall? Why did he not disappear in Bali or Sydney?

1. Because in Kendall conveniently "the tents were pulled down" soon by the sale of grandma's home.
2. Because grandma knew a lottt of people, whose record was not necessarily unblemished, all good acquaintances of herself or her deceased husband.
3. Because in Sydney there is no trusted "village police" to show up first, who you would have known since kindergarten.
4. Bali wasn't the usual terrain, where you would know your people and would trust in them (no matter, how untrustworthy they really are).
All MOO.

5. Because that is where a sick pervert opportunistically decided to abduct and harm William.
6. Because that is where a thick forest is, where William wandered and is still laying there, unfound.

So many choices of outcome!

imo

 

[nightrider17]

Here's a way out scenario. In my opinion.

What if FM took WT for a drive in her mothers car, to amuse WT who was getting restless.

She drove down towards the riding school, maybe suggesting that they could see horses or go and pat the horses as a distraction to WT who was wanting the FF and fretting for him. IMO

WT jumped out and had an accident which happened at the side of the road?? IMO
She told him to go and find the horses?? and WT went through the bushes?? and didn't return?? JMO

This then ties in with what she said:-
“All I could think is why can’t I hear him. “Why can’t I see the red (of his Spider-Man costume) - it hasn’t been very long.
“But I continued to look, I have to look, I’m not going to stand there and do nothing.”
While searching for him she thought she heard a scream, “similar to the sound a child makes when they hurt themselves”.
“It was quick, it was high-pitched and it was sharp,” she said.

‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

Day two of the Coronial Inquest in the disappearance of William Tyrrell on NSW’s mid-north coast continues.

www.9news.com.au

This part of her story I believe is true - only it describes a slightly different event - her actually being involved when the accident happened.

Not as she is suggesting just WT running and a person abducted him.IMO


She then panicked and took out a blanket her mother stored in the boot of the car and covered WT with this material. JMO

Maybe a fraction of this material has been found and matched something from her mothers car???? JMO.


Just referring to the section SLOUTH highlighted earlier as a timeline possibility. IMO

This extract is from Caroline Overington's book Missing William Tyrrell​

And the information is presumably from Police Statements, (as journalists have privileged access, under FOI Act)​

​

If this has been written in chronological order, as it appears to have been, then it does say that FM received the home in five text before running out to meet FF on the driveway…​

It just doesn’t tell us where FM ran FROM …​

​

From Chapter 4​

In Caroline Overington's book she was back at the FGM's house before her husband had returned and she went into the house and checked her phone and saw the message from the FF saying "Home in five".
Then she had to redirect the storyline to "just here five minutes ago" which she stressed to the FF on his return after asking if WT was with him.

She then went down towards the neighbour house of AS. IMO if I reconstruct the timeline possibility?? JMO

AS the neighbour explains from her version in this same article.

She told the court she was outside her house when she was approached by the foster mother who asked “have you seen a little boy? His name is William and he’s wearing a Spider-Man suit."
"She was upset... and saying 'he's hit his head and can't hear me', or 'he's been taken as he always answers me'."

So the FM was suggesting to AS of a possible hit to the head. IMO she's inserting some true parts into her narrative as she engages with her neighbour.

Apologies if this is long winded and disjointed but just a theory of the timeline possibility. IMO

 

[Couldbe]

Here's a way out scenario. In my opinion.

What if FM took WT for a drive in her mothers car, to amuse WT who was getting restless.

She drove down towards the riding school, maybe suggesting that they could see horses or go and pat the horses as a distraction to WT who was wanting the FF and fretting for him. IMO

WT jumped out and had an accident which happened at the side of the road?? IMO
She told him to go and find the horses?? and WT went through the bushes?? and didn't return?? JMO

This then ties in with what she said:-
“All I could think is why can’t I hear him. “Why can’t I see the red (of his Spider-Man costume) - it hasn’t been very long.
“But I continued to look, I have to look, I’m not going to stand there and do nothing.”
While searching for him she thought she heard a scream, “similar to the sound a child makes when they hurt themselves”.
“It was quick, it was high-pitched and it was sharp,” she said.

‘Somebody has taken him’: William Tyrrell’s foster mother shares grief over loss of three-year-old

Day two of the Coronial Inquest in the disappearance of William Tyrrell on NSW’s mid-north coast continues.

www.9news.com.au

This part of her story I believe is true - only it describes a slightly different event - her actually being involved when the accident happened.

Not as she is suggesting just WT running and a person abducted him.IMO


She then panicked and took out a blanket her mother stored in the boot of the car and covered WT with this material. JMO

Maybe a fraction of this material has been found and matched something from her mothers car???? JMO.


Just referring to the section SLOUTH highlighted earlier as a timeline possibility. IMO

This extract is from Caroline Overington's book Missing William Tyrrell​

And the information is presumably from Police Statements, (as journalists have privileged access, under FOI Act)​

​

If this has been written in chronological order, as it appears to have been, then it does say that FM received the home in five text before running out to meet FF on the driveway…​

It just doesn’t tell us where FM ran FROM …​

​

From Chapter 4​

In Caroline Overington's book she was back at the FGM's house before her husband had returned and she went into the house and checked her phone and saw the message from the FF saying "Home in five".
Then she had to redirect the storyline to "just here five minutes ago" which she stressed to the FF on his return after asking if WT was with him.

She then went down towards the neighbour house of AS. IMO if I reconstruct the timeline possibility?? JMO

AS the neighbour explains from her version in this same article.

She told the court she was outside her house when she was approached by the foster mother who asked “have you seen a little boy? His name is William and he’s wearing a Spider-Man suit."
"She was upset... and saying 'he's hit his head and can't hear me', or 'he's been taken as he always answers me'."

So the FM was suggesting to AS of a possible hit to the head. IMO she's inserting some true parts into her narrative as she engages with her neighbour.

Apologies if this is long winded and disjointed but just a theory of the timeline possibility. IMO

JMO -quite a bit of discombobulation/lying gone on for that to be what happened! (The FGM must have cooperated in the story ... to be told to LE!
Perverting the course of justice ... each proven lie may become treated as separate counts?
So nightrider, the time of taking William to see the horses would be after the 9.37am photo times (On the back Patio).
That would have provided the FM with approx 45 minutes to drive there and back (Add some time to tell the FGM before FF arrival back).

.... That theory of possibility:"She drove down towards the riding school, maybe suggesting that they could see horses or go and pat the horses as a distraction to WT who was wanting the FF and fretting for him."
"WT jumped out and had an accident which happened at the side of the road??"
"She told him to go and find the horses?? and WT went through the bushes?? and didn't return??"

.... dictates that the FM has managed to lie to everyone (Except the FGM) and together, they have managed to dupe everyone .. i.e. until sufficient of her lying/perverting the course of justice can be uncovered.

All MOO

 

[Chrissy74]

Slouth, It seems rather a coincidence that she happened to be out there just as the FF drove up.
I wonder how it can be accepted 'as fact' ... that the FF met the FM in the driveway ... Jubelin said that because both the FF and the FM had told him that was the case!

Do you think it is possible that (Because the FM had seen the 'home in five' text sent to her by the FF, they were expecting him to roll up any minute), the FM and FGM were sitting on the back patio talking while they were waiting. ( Hence, her 'while we were waiting' comment).

In his Walkthrough the FF said -" 'Bleep' were just sitting on the verandah when he got out of the car."
Important question needing an answer: I really don't think that the FF would be able to see (From the driveway at the front of the house) ... exactly who was sitting on the verandah!! SO WHY DID HE SAY THAT?

possible DNA on fgm car tires deserves a mention.

Strange Fm decided not to worry too much when she saw ff text “home in 5” thinking ff may have seen W down the street and picked him up. By this stage Fm had already driven down Batar Creek Rd to the riding school looking for W when she realised “he’s not here”.

Ffc returns from her drive down Batar Cr Rd at 10:30 asks the fgm Is W here? Why would he be here? This is the time Fgm and L are told W is missing. Ffc knows ff is only minutes away from returning so she waits on the back patio with fgm and L suggesting W went to look for daddy’s car. She only shows urgency for missing W when ff returns and she races out to his car with L and asks Is W with you?

I think the timing of ff return worked to ffc advantage in the moment

 

[Chrissy74]

5. Because that is where a sick pervert opportunistically decided to abduct and harm William.
6. Because that is where a thick forest is, where William wandered and is still laying there, unfound.

So many choices of outcome!

imo

‎Where's William Tyrrell?: One Last Roar on Apple Podcasts

38.37
Ffc
There was no way in the world he would have run into that bush. No way in the world.
“It was never a little boy lost”

29:36
And yet earlier in that same podcast Ffc says
When police arrived It was the furthest thing from our mind to have it cordoned off.

Completely contradicting statements.

Ffc knew in her heart of hearts it was never a little boy lost but to treat the area as a possible crime scene was the furthest thing from their minds. What!!!!!!

I believe the first mention of W not being a wanderer came from friends Nicole and Peter who informed the police of this 2 days after the search for W began

 

[nightrider17]

From FGM's recount.

Inside house where William Tyrrell spent his final hours

Never before seen images of the inside of the house house where William Tyrrell spent his last hours and and the bedroom he slept in before vanishing without a trace have emerged.

www.dailymail.co.uk

But he still wanted to throw it. He got sick of that as well.'
It was after that, she said, came the last actions of the little boy observed by anyone other than his abductor, the 'daddy tiger' game.

'He was sort of taking over everything and we said "roar, I'm a tiger" and he just disappeared around the corner of the house.

'As I was sitting there, that’s when he went around … and that’s my last memory of William, going around the corner.

From the FGM's recount I can't in my honest opinion believe that WT played any games, or colouring on the back verandah for any length of time. Based on FGM saying "he got sick of that as well" IMO
Which I had a children similar - they need to have a lot of variety of things to occupy themselves with and perhaps the selection of activities where not stimulating or engaging enough for WT JMO.

Detective Partridge asks the grandmother what happened next and is told that 'between four and five minutes' later her daughter disappeared after William.

After remaining seated 'for some time, then I didn’t hear from her, I got up and followed them down.'
'It was absolutely deathly quiet. Still. Nothing. I was down on the road talking with Anne Maree and then (the foster mother) came up very distraught and said "I've got to call the police".

'I think I was walking up when (the foster father) arrived and he was distraught as well.

'How he knew at that stage I’m not too sure, he’d tell you, I’m not too sure, then he started running around. Everybody was running around.'


So in FGM's recount the FF didn't park his car and come around the corner to her sitting down on the verandah with LT???. IMO

Wouldn't the police be able to verify with AS when the FGM appeared down the slope?? if this interaction between them did in fact happen?? JMO

I have difficulty understanding why the people recording those interviews didn't question why there were 3 different variations of the arrival of FF and engaging the neighbours - weird.IMO

 

[Awakening]

FFC drove away with her mother's car, before MFC returned back home from his meeting. If she did it to search for little W (I don't think so), she was already concerned or she had other reasons for her secret trip to the area around the riding school.

I don’t know what the actual official timeline is. I don’t think one from the police has ever been provided to the public.

If she did the drive before FF’s arrival home, not to mention all the frantic searching around the property and in cupboards, then two things make no sense to me;

• When FF sent the 5 minutes text, he obviously had reception and wasn’t in a meeting so ring him from the landline to look out for William.
• Why would you be calmly sitting on the deck when FF arrived home, if you’d already taken a drive and been looking for some minutes? I’d expect FF to find her searching the house or car or anxiously waiting at the driveway for him.

 

[SLouTh]

possible DNA on fgm car tires deserves a mention.

Chrissy, do you have a theory to connect to this statement? Making it possible to find DNA on the tyres?

Whose DNA ????? Are you suggesting William’s DNA???

How and when did it get onto FGM Car tyres ???

If DNA was this found on the FGM Car TYRES by Police ?? Why wouldn’t Police have raised a driveway accident theory ??? (And solved this case by now?)

Your statement implies that William was run over by FGM Car that morning ???? (Or some other scenario.?? ) How does this fit into the timeline ???

—————————-

I could understand a specific soil sample or plant sample being possibly found on the tyres of FGM car that may relate to Batar Creek …. but DNA???