Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #77

[SouthAussie]

I'm not meaning to be contrary but the exact opposite has been used to describe an opportunistic abductor as well. Poor impulse control, lots of other petty crimes and psychological hurdles to overcome before acting on impulse and doing such an act. Usually socially inept, 23 up to 45 y.o. male and then the risk starts to decrease past this age. MOO

Edit to say the following description in the article is very specific and I'm sure correct probably, “I’ve interviewed lots of men in prisons all over the world that have abducted and murdered children. My PhD is in men that abduct, sexually abuse and murder children.

No worries, not seeing your opinion as contrary.
I wonder if the difference is that an older perp may have had the years of experience to conceal this crime, and William, for so many years.
Whereas one with opposite traits might have been caught quite soon.

I remember at one point we were considering that maybe a teen kid could have taken William. If the teen was wandering to the forest to spend the day if they were skipping school or unemployed.

imo

 

[FromGermany1]

For what it is worth, my opinion only, if an abduction did occur I don’t believe it would have been from the front side of Benaroon Drive, (where the cars were allegedly parked). To me, that area is far too open..and too much risk of being seen…

I think a sneaky complex individual would have approached from the driveway side of the house …. No prying eyes …. Family out the back of the house, no opposite Neighbor, (bushland), Millers were away, and the Crabbs were out at least some of the time that morning ….to me, it just seems like a logical reduction of risk, to approach the house from that side…

Criminals usually conduct some type of surveillance which could last anywhere from a few minutes to a few weeks.

Criminal Planning Cycle and Victim Selection Process

www.smiconsultancy.com

Yes agree …. Opportunistic rather than planned … JMO

UK-based criminologist Dr Graham Hill said child abductions were mostly situational and opportunistic, as opposed to meticulously planned.

“Abductors react on the spur of the moment,” he said. “To stop child abduction, police need to understand child abductions, first and foremost. And understand how abductors work and why they work in the way they do.

Snip

Dr Hill pointed to an article he wrote about the profile of abductors. In it, he wrote: “Contrary to public perception, non-familial child abductors are often model members of society. At the time of their offence, they are usually either married or in a steady relationship and many have children of their own.

“They generally have a job and many actively contribute to their communities and society as a whole.”

Cleo abductor ‘not likely to have planned snatch’

To catch a child abductor you have to understand the rare beast that is a child abductor, says a former senior detective who specialises in this type of abhorrent crime.

thewest.com.au

Home | website

www.grahamhillcriminologist.com

IMO

bbm
I remember GAPA and similar, where some men were gathered, who weren't unblemished.

 

[FromGermany1]

Agree with everything except we have seen in a real estate campaign a couple of years after the disappearance, what looks like a white station wagon parked on the street at that telegraph pole and if my memory serves me possibly during one of the walk throughs. PS has also mentioned being familiar with 1 or 2 of the parked cars, saying he'd seen them earlier in the week but not on the day of the disappearance when he'd gone out to walk. What do we make of that? Where did she get the idea if it was made up and there is evidence of cars being parked there at a different time? Did she conflate a couple of memories under stress? Had her sister been there earlier in the week and mentioned the cars on the way back from PM, and she's gone, "Yes!", I saw them there! Did she make it up? If she is having false memories, then she probably didn't have anything to do with the disappearance?

FFC's own memory from days before it can't be as she arrived at Kendall only Thursday evening. Because her sister had to get a flight to Kendall area, I don't think, she was already there days before. The two of them just wanted to share a few memorabilia between themselves, if I remember well. Not worth two flights, IMO.

 

[Detective Willy]

My opposition to the abduction theory is that no other children have been abducted before or after Williams disappearance in or around that area.

No attempted abductions to my knowledge.

 

[SouthAussie]

My opposition to the abduction theory is that no other children have been abducted before or after Williams disappearance in or around that area.

No attempted abductions to my knowledge.

An attempt was made not long after William disappeared. I don't know if it was a copycat attempt or a random event.

Child approached near NSW Tyrrell search site - 9News

A nine-year-old boy was reportedly approached by a man on the NSW mid-north coast close to where police sea...

www.9news.com.au

 

[Couldbe]

An attempt was made not long after William disappeared. I don't know if it was a copycat attempt or a random event.

Child approached near NSW Tyrrell search site - 9News

A nine-year-old boy was reportedly approached by a man on the NSW mid-north coast close to where police sea...

www.9news.com.au

Thank you for your link'; not believed to be any link between that alleged approach and the abduction possibility as was proposed by Gary Jubelin in connection with William's disappearance.
"Police don't believe there is any link between the alleged approach to the nine-year-old yesterday and the suspected abduction of the toddler nearly six months ago.
The boy was allegedly approached at 3.15pm while walking along Ocean Drive in Lake Cathie.

He was reportedly told to get in the car before he ran from the scene and alerted his mother.
Police are investigating the incident.
Lake Cathie is about 25 kilometres from Kendall, just south of Port Macquarie, where three-year-old William disappeared while playing in the yard of his grandmother's home in September.
It's also close to a search zone where investigators spent three days this week looking for evidence related to the Tyrrell case."

"There's no evidence to suggest this matter is connected to any other incident being investigated by police," a NSW police spokesman said today.
Police are looking for a tall man, aged in his early 40s, with a grey goatee who was driving a white Toyota 4WD.
It's believed the vehicle may have Queensland registration plates decorated with palm trees" (Outbrain -What is Outbrain? Discovery Platform Powered by Native Advertising) .

MOO

 

[iiiii's]

My opposition to the abduction theory is that no other children have been abducted before or after Williams disappearance in or around that area.

No attempted abductions to my knowledge.

In the earlier threads there were reports of approaches prior to the disappearance, not at Kendall but in the region. Also we looked at the case of a 2 yo that went missing on a property at John's River, the year before, who was found on the property about 12 hours after he went missing. He went missing on a Friday, same time of day when his family were visiting a mechanic on a property, he was playing around his little sister. There were people who were in that search who also searched for WT. There had been wonderings if he had just wandered or if this had been a practice or attempt by someone. Toddler found

Children on the north coast are being approached by people they don't know

Police on the north coast are worried about an increase in the number of approaches to unaccompanied children by male strangers.

www.abc.net.au

Children on the north coast are being approached by people they don't know Fear for our children | Star Community

In the linked ABC article and and in the article SouthAussie linked, there is a similar description of a man with a grey goatie making approaches before and after WT's disappearance. I also remember an approach where the vehicle description had a checked pattern over the wheel guard and made me wonder if someone had approached a child in either a police or ranger or some type of services vehicle.

 

[iiiii's]

FFC's own memory from days before it can't be as she arrived at Kendall only Thursday evening. Because her sister had to get a flight to Kendall area, I don't think, she was already there days before. The two of them just wanted to share a few memorabilia between themselves, if I remember well. Not worth two flights, IMO.

There has been a car at the spot at various times for years since the disappearance, so why not for a period of time previously and been seen by the FFC on previous visits? If her sister came from Sydney, I never imagined her catching a flight to PM to do previous visits with FGM but drive up like the foster family did. I always imagined the flight was to get there in a hurry. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Thank you for your link'; not believed to be any link between that alleged approach and the abduction possibility as was proposed by Gary Jubelin in connection with William's disappearance.
"Police don't believe there is any link between the alleged approach to the nine-year-old yesterday and the suspected abduction of the toddler nearly six months ago.
The boy was allegedly approached at 3.15pm while walking along Ocean Drive in Lake Cathie.

He was reportedly told to get in the car before he ran from the scene and alerted his mother.
Police are investigating the incident.
Lake Cathie is about 25 kilometres from Kendall, just south of Port Macquarie, where three-year-old William disappeared while playing in the yard of his grandmother's home in September.
It's also close to a search zone where investigators spent three days this week looking for evidence related to the Tyrrell case."

"There's no evidence to suggest this matter is connected to any other incident being investigated by police," a NSW police spokesman said today.
Police are looking for a tall man, aged in his early 40s, with a grey goatee who was driving a white Toyota 4WD.
It's believed the vehicle may have Queensland registration plates decorated with palm trees" (Outbrain -What is Outbrain? Discovery Platform Powered by Native Advertising) .

MOO

The point of the post was another member said they had never heard of an abduction or attempted abduction in the area. Not that the perp was the one who took William.

I happened to remember this attempt that was made 6 months after William disappeared.

imo

 

[Couldbe]

The point of the post was another member said they had never heard of an abduction or attempted abduction in the area. Not that the perp was the one who took William.

I happened to remember this attempt that was made 6 months after William disappeared.

imo

It was for the benefit of others, that I posted the details contained in the link.
MOO

 

[iiiii's]

Alleged child sex abuse ring busted in NSW Mid North Coast Can someone please remind me of where we landed with this? Both men would have been 14 and 18 at the time of WT's disappearance. Were they living in Kendall then? Were they connected to any POI's. Surely SFR went over them and their associates with a fine tooth comb. What a bloody cheek to be doing this anywhere but especially in Kendall after WT's disappearance. Wonder if they were thinking about the best place to hide a book is in a library or a body is in a cemetery type of analogy when committing these crimes. MOO

 

[SLouTh]

Can someone please remind me of where we landed with this?

Paraphrased

Both plead guilty to hundreds of despicable crimes… as part of “Operation Arkstone” …. And very young children were involved ..including a baby under one year of age ..

Garrad pleaded guilty to more than 100 offences.

Doyle pleaded guilty and will be sentenced for more than 200 charges

The pair was due to be sentenced on November 7 at Downing Centre District Court. (2022)

The crimes dated back to 2017, and 2018.

Full article
Paywalled for some

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/inside-arkstone-full-list-of-respected-men-arrested-under-online-child-abuse-probe/news-story/ce1b091cccf6cc6679769a91fe9eb71a

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/mid-north-coast/timothy-doyle-steven-garrad-facing-250-new-charges-as-part-of-child-abuse-arrests-in-kendall/news-story/f608e1717e8ec7657a4161b798d17526

Fifteenth man arrested in alleged Australian child sex ring

The 54-year-old from Newcastle faces a string of charges, including possessing, soliciting and sharing child abused material. He is also charged with bestiality.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Edit to fix links

 

[SLouTh]

My opposition to the abduction theory is that no other children have been abducted before or after Williams disappearance in or around that area.

No attempted abductions to my knowledge.

From Dr Grahame Hill (Criminologist)

Child abduction is a really rare event. And there’s only a certain number of offenders that are going to go down that road. You can be a criminal. You can be a sex offender, but you’re not an abductor. They’re a rare animal. It takes a certain kind of person to commit such a crime.”

Very few child abductors plan their offences and once they’ve got a child, they very rarely keep them. Because to keep a child, you’ve got to keep them fed, you’ve got to keep them quiet and all of those things are really difficult to do.

Cleo abductor ‘not likely to have planned snatch’

To catch a child abductor you have to understand the rare beast that is a child abductor, says a former senior detective who specialises in this type of abhorrent crime.

thewest.com.au

And some Australian Statistics on “Kidnapping”…

In 2020, the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) labelled New South Wales the Kidnapping Capital of Australia, reporting 225 victims, followed by Victoria with 158 and Queensland and South Australia 59 each; with very few in other States and Territories.

According to a report released by the ABS in July 2022, New South Wales still tops the Aussie list with 210, Victoria next in line with 146, whilst Queensland registered 26, South Australia 41, with Tasmania accounting for only 3 kidnappings. The Australian State with no kidnappings for 2021 was the Northern Territory.

Out of a total of 453 kidnappings, 27 were children under the age of 9 years.

Just over one third (153) were Family Domestic Violence related.

The ABS found that family, friends and acquaintance were responsible for the majority of kidnapping offences in NSW, Victoria and South Australia, with strangers committing the majority of the Queensland crimes.

Kidnapping: A Prevalent Crime Throughout the Ages

Detaining persons against their will, whether for material advantage or otherwise, has been prevalent in societies throughout the ages.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

There are many more missing Australian children …. 63 of them, in May 2023…. (Most of us wouldn’t know each of the 63 cases, like we know of William’s case )

As the world marks International Missing Children’s Day today, these are the 63 Australian children that vanished without a trace.

Some, like William Tyrrell are household names, etched in the minds of Australians. Others are less well known, but for their parents and families, the wondering and hoping and searching never ends. Even many years since their child was last seen, many still cling to the hope they will one day walk through the front door.

https://www.news.com.au/national/63-australian-children-who-have-vanished-without-a-trace/news-story/184622941e0b5a67a2d8dfdd4117012a

 

[SLouTh]

My opposition to the abduction theory is that no other children have been abducted before or after Williams disappearance in or around that area.

No attempted abductions to my knowledge.

IMO, nefarious child abductions and murders (like that of Daniel Morcombe for example) tend to occur once every decade or twenty years or so …. in Australia …

Since then, there has been baby Khandalyce . (baby in the suitcase), being one that I can recall of the top of my head… and an older girl recently in Tasmania IIRC???

I don’t know if that will change with the emergence of online pedophilia, being so rampant, as it appears to be, by the number of arrests we read about in media??

It is sad and sick world, that doesn't appear to be getting any better IMO

Just my opinion ..

 

[SouthAussie]

Alleged child sex abuse ring busted in NSW Mid North Coast Can someone please remind me of where we landed with this? Both men would have been 14 and 18 at the time of WT's disappearance. Were they living in Kendall then? Were they connected to any POI's. Surely SFR went over them and their associates with a fine tooth comb. What a bloody cheek to be doing this anywhere but especially in Kendall after WT's disappearance. Wonder if they were thinking about the best place to hide a book is in a library or a body is in a cemetery type of analogy when committing these crimes. MOO

I remember that the AFP were very tight lipped about it, when asked if it could be related to William. I think they said that the journo would have to speak with SFR.

As per Slouth's DT link, AFP ended up arresting 26 people - among them, junior soccer coaches, childcare workers and major media channel employees - with 12 sentenced already (as at Aug '22) and 14 more still before the courts.

imo

 

[iiiii's]

Sorry to harken back to it, but I still struggle with the missing/found 2 year old who went missing at John's River in 2013. He was found on the property, which is about 15.5 hectares. He went missing at 10.30 am and was not found by police, dogs, a chopper and then the police wanted to suspend the search. The locals insisted on searching anyway and he was found after 1am in the morning in a very precarious spot. It's nuts to me.

 

[iiiii's]

I remember that the AFP were very tight lipped about it, when asked if it could be related to William. I think they said that the journo would have to speak with SFR.

As per Slouth's DT link, AFP ended up arresting 26 people - among them, junior soccer coaches, childcare workers and major media channel employees - with 12 sentenced already (as at Aug '22) and 14 more still before the courts.

imo

wishing we had an appalled or vomiting emojie

 

[SouthAussie]

Sorry to harken back to it, but I still struggle with the missing/found 2 year old who went missing at John's River in 2013. He was found on the property, which is about 15.5 hectares. He went missing at 10.30 am and was not found by police, dogs, a chopper and then the police wanted to suspend the search. The locals insisted on searching anyway and he was found after 1am in the morning in a very precarious spot. It's nuts to me.

Yes, there are a lot of parallels in the two cases. With his parents. Wandered off. HUGE search of waterways and rugged bushland by police and SES. Dog squad. Unfound.

And then a group of 100 locals found him because they were not going to stop searching as the temp went down to 6C that night.

How was he missed by the police dogs? Because they can't always track the scents.

Or (as I thought at the time) someone might have taken him then dumped him in the bush when the police stopped searching.

imo

Link and Link

 

[SLouTh]

Sorry to harken back to it, but I still struggle with the missing/found 2 year old who went missing at John's River in 2013. He was found on the property, which is about 15.5 hectares. He went missing at 10.30 am and was not found by police, dogs, a chopper and then the police wanted to suspend the search. The locals insisted on searching anyway and he was found after 1am in the morning in a very precarious spot. It's nuts to me.

That child was found within the first 24hours … and the search was suspended due to lack of light on that day … (yes, volunteers went out at night and continued … )

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/police-search-for-missing-toddler-tyler-near-taree/news-story/45aa26e97732bdc8466eda2d715af18b

Whereas, in William’s case they continued to search at night … perhaps a lesson learned from the John’s River incident????


Desperation is setting in for the family of missing toddler, William Tyrell, with police finding no trace of the three year old on day four of the search, which will continue into the night.

Frantic search widens for three-year-old William Tyrell

The desperate search for toddler, William Tyrell, who disappeared from the front yard of his Kendall home on Friday, wearing a spiderman costume has entered its fourth day and hope if fading.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[iiiii's]

That child was found within the first 24hours … and the search was suspended due to lack of light on that day … (yes, volunteers went out at night and continued … )

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/police-search-for-missing-toddler-tyler-near-taree/news-story/45aa26e97732bdc8466eda2d715af18b

Whereas, in William’s case they continued to search at night … perhaps a lesson learned from the John’s River incident????


Desperation is setting in for the family of missing toddler, William Tyrell, with police finding no trace of the three year old on day four of the search, which will continue into the night.

Frantic search widens for three-year-old William Tyrell

The desperate search for toddler, William Tyrell, who disappeared from the front yard of his Kendall home on Friday, wearing a spiderman costume has entered its fourth day and hope if fading.

www.dailymail.co.uk

yes, but 15 hours on one property? That's 1 hectare per hour by a huge amount of people! https://www.property.com.au/nsw/johns-river-2443/wharf-rd/92-pid-1778488/