Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard - Kendall (NSW) #79

  • #161

‘Guesses’ and ‘suspicions’ will not solve William Tyrrell disappearance, inquest told​


Paraphrased

Quote from Craddock “Guesses are not rational. Suspicions form no rational basis for making findings of fact … a police officer’s belief may be right or wrong,” he said.

FFC's evidence to the NSW Crime Commission about hitting a different foster child with a wooden spoon will also be presented.

The 2022 police interview recording with another child in the home will also be played in closed court, along with a video of the child showing police where she last saw Tyrrell.



FA still watching on, but will not give evidence
 
  • #162
Finally our truck driver appears. Hopefully he can clear up the confusion on the timing of fm drive.
Truck driver Peter was in Kendall that morning. He spoke to RH on his podcast 2 days after W went missing. He says he was in Kendall to pick up machinery and arrived sometime around 9am and left Kendall around 11:30/12.
I am not sure if it is the same truck driver as you have mentioned ?? That one called in to report a suspiscious black Camry…..

This could be another truck driver??? The one that FM alleges she saw..??
From you linked article

Evidence will be given from a truck driver who drove past the site where the foster mother allegedly disposed of the body.

JMO
 
  • #163
FA still watching on, but will not give evidence
At all??? Or just this week, I wonder???

I also wonder if they are saving Laidlaw for the final week of the inquest???

Wishful thinking perhaps, on my part ….
IMP
 
  • #164
  • #165
At all??? Or just this week, I wonder???

I also wonder if they are saving Laidlaw for the final week of the inquest???

Wishful thinking perhaps, on my part ….
IMP
Here is a non paywalled article I think


Convicted sex offender Frank Abbott, who was investigated over Tyrrell’s disappearance and subsequently charged with unrelated child sex offences, was present via video link from Long Bay prison but will not give evidence.
 
  • #166

Police have still gathered no forensic evidence explaining how William Tyrrell went missing 10 years ago, the long-running inquest into the toddler’s disappearance was told as it resumed.
From your link

Gerard Craddock SC, the Counsel Assisting the Coroner, said a statement from the lead investigator on the case Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw had been heavily redacted as it was “in the form of one person’s opinions about what evidence shows”.

No wonder the DPP did nothing with this case so far IMO

What a bloody 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 show this is.

:confused: :(
 
  • #167

Police have still gathered no forensic evidence explaining how William Tyrrell went missing 10 years ago, the long-running inquest into the toddler’s disappearance was told as it resumed.
The only two pieces of positive information I can see in that link, is that the court will hear statements given by the foster mother and the other foster child. Might help clear some timelines or at least contextualise some info that we have previously heard.

“This week sworn evidence the foster mother previously gave with the secretive NSW Crime Commission will be played to the inquest before Magistrate Harriet Graeme.”

“A 2022 interview with another child – who is not William – will also be played in closed court this week.”
 
  • #168
University of Newcastle criminologist Xanthe Mallett, who has been following the case closely since William disappeared 10 years ago, said the hearing will be a significant moment in the long-running case.

"Finally, we're going to find out what evidence there is against the foster mother after there have been rumours circulating now for years," she said

 
  • #169
  • #170
  • #171
At all??? Or just this week, I wonder???

I also wonder if they are saving Laidlaw for the final week of the inquest???

Wishful thinking perhaps, on my part ….
IMP
BBM. Not sure if this has been posted.

In an extraordinary decision, the coroner overseeing the inquest refused a request by the NSW Police Commissioner, Karen Webb, asking for Detective Chief Inspector Detective Laidlaw to be called.
. . .
Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame has declined to release her written reasons for refusing to allow DCI Laidlaw to give evidence.

 
  • #172
  • #173
He said the theory was she found him dead after he accidentally fell from a balcony.

"Police assert that she must've quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered she might lose [custody of another child in their care]," he said.

"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."

Mr Craddock said the coroner is obliged to consider findings in relation to reliable evidence.

So the police theory is that she spoke to AMS, (10:40 ) went back to the house, got her mothers keys ( not sure where they thought William was at this time ) drove down to the Cob & co, drove back & had called 000 by 10:56??

Remembering that the MFC arrived approx 10:33-10:35

That's a very tight time frame.

Also happening just before these times is Heather Savage leaving @ 10:37 or 10:38 & LH arriving home @ 10:30-10:35

And @ 10:50 AMS knocks on PS's door, also alerts the Crabb's

Also have FFC knocking on #35 according to AMS.



Is anyone able to find the timeline I did years ago please?
 
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  • #174
BBM. Not sure if this has been posted.

In an extraordinary decision, the coroner overseeing the inquest refused a request by the NSW Police Commissioner, Karen Webb, asking for Detective Chief Inspector Detective Laidlaw to be called.
. . .
Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame has declined to release her written reasons for refusing to allow DCI Laidlaw to give evidence.

I think there has been quite the breakdown / rift etc between SFR & the Coroners Dept IMO
 
  • #175
BBM. Not sure if this has been posted.

In an extraordinary decision, the coroner overseeing the inquest refused a request by the NSW Police Commissioner, Karen Webb, asking for Detective Chief Inspector Detective Laidlaw to be called.
. . .
Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame has declined to release her written reasons for refusing to allow DCI Laidlaw to give evidence.

Thanks… yes I had seen that and was curious….

I have read somewhere in the articles today, that Craddock has said that Laidlaw’s statement has been largely redacted due to it containing too many personal thoughts on what may have happened ….

Edit to add
Found it ……

Gerard Craddock SC, the Counsel Assisting the Coroner, said a statement from the lead investigator on the case Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw had been heavily redacted as it was “in the form of one person’s opinions about what evidence shows”.


IMO
 
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  • #176
As per The Australian ….

Craddock told the inquest this morning that no forensic evidence has been found.

It’s beyond argument that no forensic evidence has been located at 48 Benaroon Drive or anywhere else that provides a clue to William’s disappearance.”(Craddock)


Paywalled for some

I am sorry to say, but I think that's that then. This inquest is going to be left with theories about at least several people. But no evidence to proceed any further.

imo

It really ticks me off that we will hear nothing publicly from Frank Abbott. I wonder if he has filed something under Sec 61 of the Coroners Act (Privilege in respect of self-incrimination).
 
  • #177
Is anyone able to find the timeline I did years ago please?

It's here. Click on the first words "Post in thread" and it takes you to your post (bit different forum format than it used to be).

 
  • #178
He said the theory was she found him dead after he accidentally fell from a balcony.

"Police assert that she must've quickly resolved that if the accidental death were to be discovered she might lose [custody of another child in their care]," he said.

"Police assert that in that frame of mind she placed William in her mother's car and after alerting [a neighbour] to William's disappearance, drove the mother's car down to Batar Creek Road and placed William's body somewhere in undergrowth and then returned [home] to 48 Benaroon Drive and called the police via triple-0."

Mr Craddock said the coroner is obliged to consider findings in relation to reliable evidence.

So the police theory is that she spoke to AMS, (10:40 ) went back to the house, got her mothers keys ( not sure where they thought William was at this time ) drove down to the Cob & co, drove back & had called 000 by 10:56??

Remembering that the MFC arrived approx 10:33-10:35

That's a very tight time frame.

Also happening just before these times is Heather Savage leaving @ 10:37 or 10:38 & LH arriving home @ 10:30-10:35

And @ 10:50 AMS knocks on PS's door, also alerts the Crabb's

Also have FFC knocking on #35 according to AMS.



Is anyone able to find the timeline I did years ago please?
The theory might be, that FFC roused AMS before MFC arrived back. This doesn't fit with AMS having heard a male voice already calling for William, unless she is remembering a later encounter with FFC.
 
  • #179
It's here. Click on the first words "Post in thread" and it takes you to your post (bit different forum format than it used to be).

Thanks SA, I'll just add it all here again, original Post was Feb 28th 2020

Here is my attempt at a Timeline

Taken from evidence I heard, & some from CO's book <modsnip>

Friday 12 the September 2014

06:30
ish : PS goes for his walk

06:00 - 07:00 : kids wake up

07:00 - 07:30 : FFC opens curtains & sees 2 cars between # 31 ( AMS ) & #35 ( Peter's ) houses

07:30 : breakfast & dress etc

08:10 : AMS waves her kids of to school who are at the bus stop on crn Benaroon & Batar Ck Rd. She is standing at her carport.

08:40 : AMS reverses out to take her child to pre-school. Arrives at 9am. Saw no cars parked on the street.

08:40 : MFC leaves for Lakewood( from CO book suggested he left around 08:40 by CCTV @ the tennis club )

08:55 - 09:00 : MFC leaves Benaroon drive ( evidence from inquest evidence )

08:50 : PS back from his walk, he stopped for approx 30mins to talk to lady named "Lyn" -the lady from the caravan

09:02 : PS calls Casino hospital where his brother is ( call lasts 22 seconds )


09:03 : FFC calls Bill Spedding from FGM's landline, leaves a message. Call lasted 38 seconds

09:05 – 10:00 ish : ( most of this is from the CO book )FFC gave no direct times in her evidence also

*FFC took WT for walk around garden (Lindsay was inside with FGM),

*were playing “Mummy Monsters” FFC spotted good climbing tree, tried to get WT to climb tree, he was not interested “No mummy, too high”

* FFC noticed 2 cars she saw earlier. FFC sipped & grazed hand.

* FFC said at the inquest they were playing for “ around 5 minutes”

* Went inside to tend to hand, Lindsay asked what they had been doing, she than wanted to play “Mummy monsters” so they all went out again to play.

* Both kids collected leaves & twigs for cards they intended to make for “ Opa’s” grave

* Worked on cards for a while ( I think this might have been when the photos were taken @ 09:37) & than FGM said “ Okay , let’s see your new bikes”

* Both kids raced to carport ( MFC had taken bikes out of car the evening before )

* Kids rode up & down the driveway , only going as far as the road & not over the kerb.

* After a few laps WT suggested they have a race . so they did & took off to the end of the driveway. Lindsay stopped in the middle of the driveway & said “whose that car Mummy?” , FFC looked & saw dark green -grey sedan pull into the Millers driveway & reverse out & leave, she said “ I don’t know , probably the neighbours”

* Kids were than back riding theie bikes , Lindsay lost her balance coming down the driveway & fell into the garden, she was not hurt, WT than decided he would crash his bike into the garden also.

* FGM than said “I think it’s time to put these bikes away”

09:10 : GO calls FGM house ( from CO book )


09:30 - 09:35 : Crabbs arrive home @ 51 Benaroon Drive, did not see any cars on street. Went to toilet, made cup of teaa & sat on back deck.

09:37 : Photos taken on back deck of FGM

09:42 : MS & BS pay for coffees etc @ Buzz Café

09:45 - 09:45 : Mr Crabb hears a car turn around, sounds like posties ( from the inquest ) about 10 mins after getting home

09:59 – 10:07 : PS call Casino hospital, call lasts 8 minutes


10:10 – 10:05 : Mrs Crabb hears car sitting on back deck , about 40mins ( Mr Crabb said 10 mins ) after arriving home , thought “ sounded like the postman, car came up reasonably fast , did a u-turn & continued on it’s way” ( from her evidence )

10:00 -10:30ish :

FGM put kettle on ( after being outside with the kids riding the bikes ) ( from CO book )

Kids had now moved to the back deck , after teas made both FFC & FGM sat outside on deck.

Lindsay emptied the pencil container, & a dice rolled out, played dice game where Lindsay would jump the amount of times that the dice landed on.

WT came over & played as well, he soon got bored & than decided to play another game “ Daddy Tiger” , he pretended to be Daddy Tiger , he crawled around on the ground for a bit , playing at being a Tiger, He was running around roaring , in his Velcro sandals & spiderman suit .

He asked Lindsay if she wanted to play too, but she was concentrating on making her card, so William carried on without her , jumping of the deck , roaring & coming back again. He jumped of the deck , ran around the side of the house roared…………….than silence

10:30-10:56 : FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd, FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” , ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive, got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far, went back to FGM house, ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” “ No , why would I have William?” . I can’t find him the FFC said. MFC took off frantically looking for William.


10:05 - 10:15 : Detective Laura Beacroft thinks this time could be when WT went missing

10:10 - 10:15 : Laidlaw thinks this could be the time WT went missing

10:19 : MFC has script filled at chemist

10:20 : PS & MS left café to walk across to school

10:00 - 11:00 : Geoff Owen at Kendall Community centre paying for his advertising

10: 30 : MFC sent text, be back 5 minutes using Siri function on his phone.

10:30 : FFC noticed all quite, can see WT, can't hear WT, starts looking for him

10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go

10:35 - 10:45 : Lydene Heslop arrives home from grocery shopping. Saw man on mower, saw no cars

10:37 - 10:38 : Heather Savage leaves for bingo

10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house.

10:41 : PS calls x-ray place ( short call )


10:45 : Ron Chapman looks at his clock on the wall, it's 10:45, he than sees the 2 cars

10:50 : AMS knocks on PS door, PS leaves to start searching.

10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.

11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job

11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up their driveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen a little boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard. Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car & drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.

Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting bins out etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for the Miller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Miller parked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.

11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive

11:30 ish : Inspector Aldridge arrives

11:30 - 11:45 : PS back from search

12:19 : Parts delivered to BS house for FGM washing machine ( other parts delivered Thus 11/11/14 )

12:30 : Snr Cnt Tim Williams arrives ( Land & Search Co-Ordinator )

"lunchtime" : Paul Berg arrives ( SES )

12:45 : Snr Cnt Wendy Hudson arrives ( was on an ADO ) with her 2 sons

13:00 : Greg & Regina Newton arrive @ PS's ( as per his testimony )

13:15 - 13:30 : GN & RG arrive at PS's ( heard in evidence by Craddock in PS's testimony )

14:26 : PS called FGM house from his mobile

16:36 : PS call to Casino hospital


Feel free to add or correct . It's not complete.......
 
  • #180
It's turned out in quite a few cases that missing children had actually walked much further than was thought possible.
In some cases well beyond the areas searched.

The sad thing is that if William is found someday, outside of the search areas, no-one is going to know how he got there.
It could be any number of people who put him there, or he could have wandered there himself.

imo
 

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