Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

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  • #501
As this case has a real possibility of heading back to the inquest now …..(if we are to believe what has been published …. )

Does any one have a list of all of the witnesses that have appeared to date, or know where to find that???

Just curious to have another look at that list, and see who may be re called to give further evidence???

TIA and all IMO
This is a link that I have found which refers a little:

Inquest hears of child seen in car wearing Spiderman suit
“More than 54 people are on a list to present evidence to Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame over the course of the inquest.
Some of those witnesses will speak publicly, others behind closed doors in secret.
 
  • #502
This is a link that I have found which refers a little:

Inquest hears of child seen in car wearing Spiderman suit
“More than 54 people are on a list to present evidence to Deputy State Coroner Harriet Grahame over the course of the inquest.
Some of those witnesses will speak publicly, others behind closed doors in secret.
Thanks so much @Couldbe ….. So 54 witnesses were on the list!!

We may be able to take 2 off that number?? WIth RP being deceased, and the husband of IN having dementia at the time of the inquest….

I have come up with a list of 50 Witnesses so far …. (But I don’t have them in the correct order… )
 
  • #503
JMO – Conducted approx 7 months after William’s disappearance (When Detective Gary Jubelin had taken over the case from Detective Hans Rupp) .... the FM had apparently then been cleared of any involvement by LE), and we could now examine what the FM (And also the FF) has said in their first Police Interview presented to the Public … (Particularly in light of the Brief of Evidence currently with the DPP):

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure Underlined by me -
A couple of extracts by me ..... from the Interview:

The interview was conducted by a member of NSW Police Media.
KEY:
P = Police
D = Dad
M = Mum


P: That’s part of the battle isn’t it, one minute he’s there, next minute he’s vanished?
D:
Yeah.
M: Yeah, it’s surreal…I’m living somebody’s else’s world, I’m in somebody else’s life.
D: It is like living a nightmare.
M: You wake up and it’s just, it’s just always here. You go about your normal day, it’s just always there. It’s never away from you, it’s constant.”

P: Can you tell us what William was doing at his Nanna’s place?
M:
He was playing, he was having fun, he was in his Spiderman outfit playing Daddy Tiger, I mean, it was fun, it was just normal.
D: He was doing what he would normally do.

P: When did things start to go awry?
M:
Well, when I realised that William was missing, I just, I think back to that moment where I just went, I can’t hear him, why, why can’t I hear him, and I walked around, seriously it was just 2, 3 metres away from where we were sitting, and I’ve just walked out, and I just see nothing. I see nothing, I hear nothing, I’m speechless. I’m walking around in a circle on the spot thinking, where is he, why can’t I see him, and I’m yelling out, “William, where are you, you need to talk to Mummy, tell me where you are, I can’t see you, I can’t hear you, where are you?”, and he was nowhere, and I’m just standing there thinking, how could he just disappear because he just disappeared and I don’t get it, I don’t get it.

P: So you raised the alarm immediately?
M:
Well I raced around for a bit, then went down and got the neighbour to help, then D came back, because he had a meeting.
D: I had a meeting and I arrived back and there was a bit of confusion if William was with me, because he’s always looking out for me and my car, and I was on my way back, and I’d arrived back and been asked if William was with me and I said no, then I immediately got out of the car and started looking around, and within 5 minutes we raised the alarm and I think I ran the perimeter of the whole street within about 10-15 minutes, and I mean, he wouldn’t, he’s not a wanderer, he wouldn’t even cross the street by himself. He wouldn’t go far.

P: Parents know their own kids, don’t they.
M:
He wouldn’t do it, he just wouldn’t do it, it’s not in him, even if somebody was to entice him across the road he wouldn’t do it, he’d run back, it’s just not in his character to go blindly with people. Every mother says that about their child and I realise that kids can be tempted, I understand that completely. William’s personality was, “I’m interested but I‘m cautious”, like he didn’t trust freely. I can’t see him doing it.
D: He was cautious, he’d cower away as little children would normally do, but he had this instinct about him about doing the right and wrong thing.

P: It’s a tough question, but when did you first suspect abduction?
M:
In my mind it was immediate, because there was no way in the world William would have gone into that bush, it’s too thick, there’s lantana all through it. There is no way in the world he would have gone into that bush.

P: Being a cautious boy he would have thought twice?
M:
It was in my head and even Mum, while I was talking with Mum while we were waiting and I was doing the frantic thing and running through the house and opening up cupboards and all sorts of stuff, I just kept going through my head, somebody’s taken him, I can’t, in my mind it was the only logical explanation for what could have happened.
D: A child in that situation, in that circumstance, in those surrounds would not just disappear into thin air. I mean I had my doubts, I did not know what to believe at the time, especially the first hour or two I didn’t know what to believe but I guess my mind was wondering as to what could have happened to him. I just had to keep on going and have the support of the community around us that were also looking for him. The police were on the scene within minutes, which was absolutely fantastic, but I didn’t know what to believe.
M: But in that community, you don’t expect somebody to take a child. I mean seriously, it’s a tiny community, everybody knows each other around those streets, there’s complete trust. I’m astounded that there could be somebody living there or people living there that could do this, it’s just not the place. You’d expect abductions in the city, you don’t expect to hear about abductions out here in Kendall, I mean it’s just ridiculous.

P: Parents are extra cautious in Sydney, but you’d probably let your guard down and be a bit disarmed in a quiet neck of the woods like that. Do you feel betrayed that someone within that community has potentially kidnapped a child?
M:
I don’t think it’s somebody from the community. I think it’s somebody who doesn’t have a history there, I think it’s…If, I mean I don’t know for sure. I can’t see, I can’t see a true local who knows my Mum, who knows us, and knows our family, choosing to take our child. I can’t see that, and if that’s the case, then I feel so sorry for that community, because that is absolutely disgraceful and nobody can trust a soul. That’s not the community of Kendall, people trust each other there."
I like, that you posted. Thank you! I don't like anything else. The truth is: I actually would need a green Emoji.
JMO - I think that I can detect a bias in the Police Interview .... from the comments by the FM

..E.g. "M: I don’t think it’s somebody from the community. I think it’s somebody who doesn’t have a history there, I think it’s…If, I mean I don’t know for sure. I can’t see, I can’t see a true local who knows my Mum, who knows us, and knows our family, choosing to take our child. I can’t see that, and if that’s the case, then I feel so sorry for that community, because that is absolutely disgraceful and nobody can trust a soul. That’s not the community of Kendall, people trust each other there."

Without having any evidence of an abduction, how is the FM arriving at that assumption that it isn't somebody from the community?
My interpretation of it is that the theme of the interview is an underlying slant towards the BioParents. MOO

Edited to correct spelling error 'BioParents'
 
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  • #504
Thanks so much @Couldbe ….. So 54 witnesses were on the list!!

We may be able to take 2 off that number?? WIth RP being deceased, and the husband of IN having dementia at the time of the inquest….

I have come up with a list of 50 Witnesses so far …. (But I don’t have them in the correct order… )
I have been looking back through the threads and have come up with a list of
65 previous inquest witnesses ….

They are not in order of appearance, unless some one can assist with that please? And please feel free to add any I have missed ….

Do you think any of these witnesses will be re called if the inquest re -opens????? (Rather than just deliver findings) as suggested by the media ..


Witness List:

1. FM
2. FF
3. Mr. Crabb
4. J Opdam
5. AMS
6. Bio Mum
7. Bio Dad
8. Iris N
9. K Cherie
10. I Porter
11. Tom Porter
12. McInelly
13. Chapman
14. Dringle (Police)
15. Beacroft
16. Laidlaw
17. FA
18. Amy (pseudonym)
19. Tanya (pseudonym)
20. Mr Anonymous (”Steve“ on Chanel 7 doco)
21. Anthony Jones (AKA TJ)
22. Debbie Gardoll (Ex of TJ)
23. Max Jones
24. Duane Gaudoll
25. Bill Spedding
26. Margaret Spedding
27. Valda Ballesty (Laurieton Public School official)
28. Angela Eschler (hairdresser)
29. Paul Savage
30. Patrick Teeling (NSW Mid North Coast local)
31. Gordon Wiegold (Laurieton milk vendor and former journalist)
32. Geoff Owen (installed the decking)
33. Elizabeth Rowley (wife of Laurieton police officer)
34. Senior Constable Christopher Rowley
35. Daniela Parish (owned Laurieton’s Cafe Buzz) (Just not 100% on this one)
36. Martin Parish
37. Danny Parish
38. Renee Jenner (Another nurse)
39. Tara Schofield (also worked at nursing home)
40. Kirsten Okpegbue. (Nurse)
41. Kathleen Connell (Ron Chapman’s neice)
42. Danny Connell (SIL of RC)
43. Sherrie Hamilton (Anderson’s daughter)
44. Dean Anderson. (Shop in Wauchope)
45. Jan Anderson
46. Kellie Lee (lived same street at Chapman)
47. Peter Huntley
48. Jodie Huntley (Neighbour's of GO with the dog)
49. Mr Newton (Brother of PS)
50. Sen Constable Gates (PD Guv)
51. Tim Palmer (Mc Inally’s friend)
52. Anna Baker (heard scream)
53. T Donoghue (RD’s brother)
54. Robert Donaghue
55. Paul Berg (SES)
56. Ben Atwood
57. Katherine Alexander (FACS)
58. Senior Constable Tim Williams (Search and Rescue)
59. MS Sharon Starr (Caltex)
60. Dean Pollard (BS Neighbor)
61. Bio GM
62. Taped impact statement of William’s sister.
63. Troy Brown (NBN)
64. LH
65. W Hudson


2 Possible Others on Original List that didn’t testify:

1. RP (deceased)
2. Husband of IN

Fairly sure this list is correct ….but apologies in advance if incorrect.
IMO

Edited for formatting ….
 
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  • #505
JMO - I think that I can detect a bias in the Police Interview .... from the comments by the FM

..E.g. "M: I don’t think it’s somebody from the community. I think it’s somebody who doesn’t have a history there, I think it’s…If, I mean I don’t know for sure. I can’t see, I can’t see a true local who knows my Mum, who knows us, and knows our family, choosing to take our child. I can’t see that, and if that’s the case, then I feel so sorry for that community, because that is absolutely disgraceful and nobody can trust a soul. That’s not the community of Kendall, people trust each other there."

Without having any evidence of an abduction, how is the FM arriving at that assumption that it isn't somebody from the community?
My interpretation of it is that the theme of the interview is an underlying slant towards the BioParents. MOO

Edited to correct spelling error 'BioParents'
I have other thoughts. M (FFC) is emphasizing the safety of Kendall so much, that one can hear her UNSAID reasons for why the family drove to Kendall and why it happened exactly there. She can only be innocent, because who would have known, that in sleepy Kendall is luring danger. This information is clothed in many unnecessary descriptions.
Because M and D were separated (meeting!), they have to tell no shared story but each a story of their own only. Beneficial probably. - All MOO of course.
 
  • #506
Have the Alleged Asault / Stalking / Intimidation Charges of the Foster Parents been dropped ???


Back in Jan 2023, The Daily Telegraph reported that these charges were to be heard on the 4th September, 2023.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/delay-in-latest-william-tyrrell-case/news-story/21a07e9a4880ac88827ca39e7f619db7


Currently oN the NSW law site for the 4th September the only relevant cases listed are for the Alleged Fraud Case Mention … relating to the lesser statutory charges being applied with a guilty plea to same.
Litigation against William Tyrrell's foster parents over real estate sale


Casefile Number for FM Alleged Fraud Case - 2022/00248178
Casefile Number for FF Alleged Fraud Case - 2022/00248175

If you search the NSW Law Link Site you will notice that these numbers do come up for the 4th September as reported for a “Mention” in court, as reported in the link above..



However, if you search the Casefile Numbers for the alleged assault and other charges etc, nothing is being displayed for the 4th September, nor any other date in the next 3 weeks …


I have also conducted a search of all of the “Closed Court - Children’s Court” for the 4th September with no results matching the case file numbers of the Foster Parents … (and if you do a random search of one of those closed cases just using the number only, the case will still come up)



Could it be possible the charges have been dropped because of the legislation of NSWCC, that no criminal charges can result from same …. ???

Protection Against Self Incrimination

If you are called as a witness and placed in the position where answering a question or providing evidence will incriminate you, you must still answer the question and produce the evidence. Under Section 18B.2, any information that you do give in a NSWCC hearing cannot be used against you in civil or criminal proceedings. Section 18B.3 allows evidence you give to be used in proceedings related to contempt of NSW Crime Commission investigations.

Or, Have the Foster Parents, behind the scenes, accepted a “guilty plea” with the prosecution, similar to that of the Alleged Fraud Case?


Or has the Clerk of the Court of the NSW Law Link site, just not updated the site, and added these cases yet???


I also wonder, why haven't the media reported on this, if it is correct? Or reported a change of date etc.? Or have I missed a news report regarding these alleged charges??

What is the most likely scenario, do you think?


All Speculation, some sleuthing, and all IMO
 
  • #507
Have the Alleged Asault / Stalking / Intimidation Charges of the Foster Parents been dropped ???


Back in Jan 2023, The Daily Telegraph reported that these charges were to be heard on the 4th September, 2023.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/delay-in-latest-william-tyrrell-case/news-story/21a07e9a4880ac88827ca39e7f619db7


Currently oN the NSW law site for the 4th September the only relevant cases listed are for the Alleged Fraud Case Mention … relating to the lesser statutory charges being applied with a guilty plea to same.
Litigation against William Tyrrell's foster parents over real estate sale


Casefile Number for FM Alleged Fraud Case - 2022/00248178
Casefile Number for FF Alleged Fraud Case - 2022/00248175

If you search the NSW Law Link Site you will notice that these numbers do come up for the 4th September as reported for a “Mention” in court, as reported in the link above..



However, if you search the Casefile Numbers for the alleged assault and other charges etc, nothing is being displayed for the 4th September, nor any other date in the next 3 weeks …


I have also conducted a search of all of the “Closed Court - Children’s Court” for the 4th September with no results matching the case file numbers of the Foster Parents … (and if you do a random search of one of those closed cases just using the number only, the case will still come up)



Could it be possible the charges have been dropped because of the legislation of NSWCC, that no criminal charges can result from same …. ???

Protection Against Self Incrimination

If you are called as a witness and placed in the position where answering a question or providing evidence will incriminate you, you must still answer the question and produce the evidence. Under Section 18B.2, any information that you do give in a NSWCC hearing cannot be used against you in civil or criminal proceedings. Section 18B.3 allows evidence you give to be used in proceedings related to contempt of NSW Crime Commission investigations.

Or, Have the Foster Parents, behind the scenes, accepted a “guilty plea” with the prosecution, similar to that of the Alleged Fraud Case?


Or has the Clerk of the Court of the NSW Law Link site, just not updated the site, and added these cases yet???


I also wonder, why haven't the media reported on this, if it is correct? Or reported a change of date etc.? Or have I missed a news report regarding these alleged charges??

What is the most likely scenario, do you think?


All Speculation, some sleuthing, and all IMO
Could foster parents have applied for an adjournment so they only have one thing to deal with at a time?
 
  • #508
Could foster parents have applied for an adjournment so they only have one thing to deal with at a time?
Quite possible …. Although the alleged fraud charges are pretty much wrapped up with the guilty plea to the regulatory charges, And that all happened behind the scenes …..

If the case has been adjourned, I wonder why the media haven’t reported that???
IMO
 
  • #509
Quite possible …. Although the alleged fraud charges are pretty much wrapped up with the guilty plea to the regulatory charges, And that all happened behind the scenes …..

If the case has been adjourned, I wonder why the media haven’t reported that???
IMO
I think they, or their lawyer, would be making some sort of sentencing submission in relation to the regulatory charges. So possibly in terms of workload and attention allocation it's not altogether 'wrapped up' notwithstanding the plea.
 
  • #510
I think they, or their lawyer, would be making some sort of sentencing submission in relation to the regulatory charges. So possibly in terms of workload and attention allocation it's not altogether 'wrapped up' notwithstanding the plea.
As much as I agree that lawyers on every side will be doing their best to earn a living & fill their bucket on whatever deeds they can, i think I have no idea of anything any more ( just a general comment JLZ.)

Personally & sadly, I don’t expect that we’ll ever know the truth of what happened to William.

As a society I think we’ve let him down badly, as we have his family. But I do believe in justice, whether in this life or the next, and for anyone looking in the mirror & thinking they’ve got away - think again & enjoy today.
 
  • #511
I agree 100% Couldbe.

Facial Recognition Technology has advanced so quickly and IMO many peoples heads would spin if the knew how much more prevalent "AI" is now.

Police have stated repeatedly that they do not think William is alive so IMO it's a highly unlikely scenario that he is a slave and is being recorded on the Dark Web from what has been said by authorities.
That's why they rarely show faces of victims on the dark web.

I don't think the majority of children being used as sex slaves are routinely seen on the dark web in any way they could be recognised.

They are more likely to be used by their captors and passed around at parties, which the not recorded.
 
  • #512
Imagine, if little W's bio mother and bio-father had expressed their desire to relax on any shore from the excitement about their missing child! :eek:
At the time I didn't have any understanding for that. Still not today. :(
The woman was approaching 80, had lost her husband and had medical problems. Why wouldn't we expect she'd need to take a break from the stress and chaos?
 
  • #513
That's why they rarely show faces of victims on the dark web.

I don't think the majority of children being used as sex slaves are routinely seen on the dark web in any way they could be recognised.

They are more likely to be used by their captors and passed around at parties, which the not recorded.
This is sooooo sad / heartbreaking and horrendous at the same time …
I think I am quite naive about such despicable crimes…. And God help those who try to keep children safe!
 
  • #514
The woman was approaching 80, had lost her husband and had medical problems. Why wouldn't we expect she'd need to take a break from the stress and chaos?
I didn't know, grandma was with them (FFC/MFC/daughter).
 
  • #515
I didn't know, grandma was with them (FFC/MFC/daughter).
I think there was a misunderstanding of who was under discussion. The passage in the old news article was as follows:

It's believed William's grandmother has left home to stay with a friend, overwhelmed by stress. Two little bikes remain on the back porch. Superintendent Paul Fehon walks around the property and is at a loss to explain what might have happened.

But Silvercrown glossed "William's grandmother" as "the FFC mother" which you FG maybe took to mean the foster mum herself. Perhaps also you were thinking of the foster family's visit to the beach before they went home to Sydney. I'm not sure if I remember right, but police might have had a surveillance motive for promoting the beach visit.
 
  • #516
I think there was a misunderstanding of who was under discussion. The passage in the old news article was as follows:

It's believed William's grandmother has left home to stay with a friend, overwhelmed by stress. Two little bikes remain on the back porch. Superintendent Paul Fehon walks around the property and is at a loss to explain what might have happened.

But Silvercrown glossed "William's grandmother" as "the FFC mother" which you FG maybe took to mean the foster mum herself. Perhaps also you were thinking of the foster family's visit to the beach before they went home to Sydney. I'm not sure if I remember right, but police might have had a surveillance motive for promoting the beach visit.
I meant FGM= William's grandma and the beach "vacation".
 
  • #517
That's why they rarely show faces of victims on the dark web.

I don't think the majority of children being used as sex slaves are routinely seen on the dark web in any way they could be recognised.

They are more likely to be used by their captors and passed around at parties, which the not recorded.
In the recent Australian case where a childcare worker was found to have raped and abused a large number of children through his workplace all the photos would have been completely untraceable as he totally hid the victims identities (if it wasn't for police being able to trace a single SHEET which was made by a unique manufacturer supplying child care centres in that area)
 
  • #518
New Article ….

William Tyrrell's former foster parents have issued a plea to find the missing toddler on the eve of a court hearing in which they are due to plead guilty to rigging the property sale of William's 'forever home'.

On the Where's William Facebook site the couple runs with a PR company, they plead for the safe return of William, who vanished in 2014 and has never been seen since, saying: 'William we'll never give up'.

'Tomorrow, as we gather together to celebrate Father's Day, we’ll be marking 3278 days since William was taken from all those he loved and who love him dearly,' the Facebook post began.


Snip …

 
  • #519
New Article ….

William Tyrrell's former foster parents have issued a plea to find the missing toddler on the eve of a court hearing in which they are due to plead guilty to rigging the property sale of William's 'forever home'.

On the Where's William Facebook site the couple runs with a PR company, they plead for the safe return of William, who vanished in 2014 and has never been seen since, saying: 'William we'll never give up'.

'Tomorrow, as we gather together to celebrate Father's Day, we’ll be marking 3278 days since William was taken from all those he loved and who love him dearly,' the Facebook post began.


Snip …

They absolutely have to make a name for themselves always. They will find a reason every 3 months, I think. How thankful (and useless). MOO
 
  • #520
Update provided amid ongoing search for missing boy William Tyrrell

The former foster parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell say they’ll “never give up” in a Father’s Day plea for information.

The couple, who cannot be named for legal reasons, shared a message on the Where’s William Tyrrell Facebook page on Saturday.

“Tomorrow, as we gather together to celebrate Father’s Day, we’ll be marking 3278 days since William was taken from all those he loved and who love him dearly,” the message reads.

“Tomorrow, our thoughts will be of precious William, his loved ones, and all those whose children have not come home.
Three year old boy William Tyrrell vanished in September 2014. Picture: NSW Police.

“NSW Police are offering a $1 million reward for information that will lead them to William – that’s one million reasons to make the call to Crime Stoppers now.”

 
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