Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

[iiiii's]

There seems to be a lot of things still remaining. William being lost in the bush, FA, PS, GO, FM. Unless they can clearly eliminate those things - other than FM - there will be reasonable doubt. imo

William being lost in the bush - After the coroner has examined all the searches and been to Kendall to look at the disappearance sight, I imagine that she could have ordered further searches if she thought something had been missed. I personally don't think WT wandered into the bush, based on him "not being a wanderer", and any real access to the bush was across the road after the bend in the road or the end of Benaroon dr. My personal experience having lived with the bush is that kids don't enter into it, off a path at such a young age. The Australian bush is frightening, dirty, prickly etc. off track.

PS- appears to have an alibi up until 10.37, when his wife left for Bingo. Phone records show he was on the phone at 10.07. Laura Beacroft personally puts the disappearance at approx. 10.05am. https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...g/news-story/0065afefa387da4d1ffef1a6550a3877

FA's morbid interest in WT's case is probably due to his criminal tendencies but nothing places him at the scene, on foot or in a vehicle. No witness accounts. Testimony about what RP said whilst in hospital, dying, is interesting and I don't think we will ever hear the context of the interviews police did with RP, however, I'm sure the coroner would have that in front of her and be able to analyse that information for herself. It's difficult to believe FA had WT and in the midst of hundreds of searchers hid behind a shed in Kendall with him waiting for a lift 300km north in RP's car which I think has been proven to have been in the vicinity of Port Macquarie when it should have been travelling. His degree of separation to GO is interesting and GO to the house.

GO- the only reason he stands out in my opinion is because he lived on the same block of land for a while with FA. I'm unaware of a criminal record. He is not placed at the scene on foot or in a vehicle. What was interesting to me though was the FGM ringing GO the very afternoon WT went missing and cancelling an appointment for him to come to the house the following Tuesday. Seems she didn't think he would be found locally from the 1st day.

I think there is reasonable doubt in the aforementioned POI's.

FM was at the scene of the disappearance. FM disappeared from view of the other people at the house at the same time she discovered she could not find WT. Neither of those other people have corroborated the FM's statement that she sang out that he was missing and went through all the cupboards etc. looking for him. They seemed to not know until approx. 5 minutes before FFC decided to phone the police that WT had disappeared. FM left the scene at some time in her mother's car, before informing anyone that WT was missing. It seems someone witnessed her drive and it would be great to know at what time the witness believes that they saw her. From the moment the FFC walked around the corner of the house until she came into contact with someone outside of the house, her actions need to be probed. If we go by the timeline, there is the potential of 1/2 an hour that the FFC was alone with no one knowing WT had disappeared. Also, if you are initially looking for the child on the property inside and outside the house, others at the house would hear you. You would walk past the others and say, " has he come around the other side of the house?" You would yell indoors whilst searching every room. The other 2 people did not seem to be aware or this activity. The fact that GJ did not probe this in his interview of the FFC when he called the foster parents in, with these weird anomoleys is seriously disturbing.

Having said that, The FGM seems to think she saw MFC's return whilst on the street with AMS, FFC thought she went to AMS before MFC's return. AMS believed she heard a male voice calling out for WT from behind 48 Benaroon dr. before the initial meeting of FFC. Usually I would go with what the majority think except AMS timeline, link up with MFC's timeline. He sent a text at 10.30 from the Kendall general store saying he would be home soon and that drive to Benaroon is about 2 minutes. His video walk through shows he was calling out at the back of the property. AMS says, FFC came to her gate at 10.40am. It's interesting that 2 people who entered the disappearance scene who don't know each other, MFC and AMS appear to be in sync in their timelines but the 2 adults at the scene seem to be having very different experiences of the timeline. IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

GO- the only reason he stands out in my opinion is because he lived on the same block of land for a while with FA. I'm unaware of a criminal record. He is not placed at the scene on foot or in a vehicle. What was interesting to me though was the FGM ringing GO the very afternoon WT went missing and cancelling an appointment for him to come to the house the following Tuesday. Seems she didn't think he would be found locally from the 1st day.

I think there is reasonable doubt in the aforementioned POI's.

bbm

True, very much!! Uihhh!!

 

[iiiii's]

William being lost in the bush - After the coroner has examined all the searches and been to Kendall to look at the disappearance sight, I imagine that she could have ordered further searches if she thought something had been missed. I personally don't think WT wandered into the bush, based on him "not being a wanderer", and any real access to the bush was across the road after the bend in the road or the end of Benaroon dr. My personal experience having lived with the bush is that kids don't enter into it, off a path at such a young age. The Australian bush is frightening, dirty, prickly etc. off track.

RSBM

Also in regards to to being lost in the bush, it was reported that WT's scent was not picked up beyond the boarder of the property. This caused police to look further into human intervention for WT's disappearance, via car. Fehon's comment is very interesting. It seems to me, we are still at that point after 9 years


BBM

William Tyrrell: The boy no-one can find

"I heard the voice of the woman who was knocking and I knew something awful had happened. It was a voice tinged with desperation."

www.nowtolove.com.au

Even the grandmother's house was searched, top to bottom, but there was nothing. Not a scrap of clothing, not a footprint in the dirt, not an errant tyre track. Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard.
"I can truthfully say that nothing has been discounted," says the man heading the investigation, Superintendent Paul Fehon, a long-serving officer and family man, who habitually refers to William as "young William".
"Our starting point is approximately a five-minute window when young William walked around the side of the house into the backyard and disappeared from sight while his mother and grandmother went inside for a cup of tea. We are still at that point. This far into an investigation we might expect something to lead us in a new direction. That hasn't happened. The truth is that we have nothing and that means we have to keep an open mind about what might have happened and that includes the possibility of human intervention and that he is still out there. That might be something good."

 

[Shadow@light]

Kicking is the worst, most humiliating thing, I can imagine.

Being spate in the face, when you are a Foster Child and the entire family calls you a Lying, fat greedy Pig.

 

[SouthAussie]

bbm

True, very much!! Uihhh!!

We don't actually know if that is true. Because nobody has ever provided a link for that information. It just seems to get brought up every once in a while.


What we do know is that ... "Again according to phone records, it was a local handyman, GTO, who called at 9:10am to ask about some repairs that William's foster nana needed done to the deck".

Ref: Missing William Tyrrell, by Caroline Overington, Chapter 2


And this from the inquest ...

GO had contacted the FGM on the 8/9/14 to repair some rotted decking & he went that day to give access the deck & give a quote & he phoned her later that afternoon to give her the quote.

on the 11/9/14 he phoned again & he said he spoke to a daughter of the FGM's ( not the FFC ) & enquired about doing the decking on the 16/9/14

On the 11/9/14 @ 5pm he attended Port Macquarie hospital for an appointment / cancer support meeting

On 12/9/14 between 10-11am he attended Kendall Community centre to pay for advertising

On the 18/9/14 he went to hospital for surgery, was in hospital for 6 days ( he was awaiting a surgery time prior to this )

He returned on the 10/10/14 to repair the deck. Link

 

[katydid23]

Also in regards to to being lost in the bush, it was reported that WT's scent was not picked up beyond the boarder of the property. This caused police to look further into human intervention for WT's disappearance, via car. Fehon's comment is very interesting. It seems to me, we are still at that point after 9 years


BBM

William Tyrrell: The boy no-one can find

"I heard the voice of the woman who was knocking and I knew something awful had happened. It was a voice tinged with desperation."

www.nowtolove.com.au

Even the grandmother's house was searched, top to bottom, but there was nothing. Not a scrap of clothing, not a footprint in the dirt, not an errant tyre track.

If he had fallen off the balcony and FM had to pick up his battered/injured body and run with him to the grandmother's car, and rush away, would it have been as pristine as described above? [but there was nothing. Not a scrap of clothing, not a footprint in the dirt, not an errant tyre track.]

Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard.
"I can truthfully say that nothing has been discounted," says the man heading the investigation, Superintendent Paul Fehon, a long-serving officer and family man, who habitually refers to William as "young William".

Again, if he had fallen from the upstairs balcony, and carried bleeding to the car, wouldn't the dogs have picked up his scent?

"Our starting point is approximately a five-minute window when young William walked around the side of the house into the backyard and disappeared from sight while his mother and grandmother went inside for a cup of tea. We are still at that point. This far into an investigation we might expect something to lead us in a new direction. That hasn't happened. The truth is that we have nothing and that means we have to keep an open mind about what might have happened and that includes the possibility of human intervention and that he is still out there. That might be something good."

 

[iiiii's]

We don't actually know if that is true. Because nobody has ever provided a link for that information. It just seems to get brought up every once in a while.


What we do know is that ... "Again according to phone records, it was a local handyman, GTO, who called at 9:10am to ask about some repairs that William's foster nana needed done to the deck".

Ref: Missing William Tyrrell, by Caroline Overington, Chapter 2


And this from the inquest ...

GO had contacted the FGM on the 8/9/14 to repair some rotted decking & he went that day to give access the deck & give a quote & he phoned her later that afternoon to give her the quote.

on the 11/9/14 he phoned again & he said he spoke to a daughter of the FGM's ( not the FFC ) & enquired about doing the decking on the 16/9/14

On the 11/9/14 @ 5pm he attended Port Macquarie hospital for an appointment / cancer support meeting

On 12/9/14 between 10-11am he attended Kendall Community centre to pay for advertising

On the 18/9/14 he went to hospital for surgery, was in hospital for 6 days ( he was awaiting a surgery time prior to this )

He returned on the 10/10/14 to repair the deck. Link

I have it in my notes from the inquest from GO's testimony. So I know it is true. If MSM haven't reported it, I don't know what to tell you. He returned on the 10/10/14 after a phonecall on the afternoon of 12/9/14, from the FGM stating that he couldn't come the next Tuesday.

 

[iiiii's]

If he had fallen off the balcony and FM had to pick up his battered/injured body and run with him to the grandmother's car, and rush away, would it have been as pristine as described above? [but there was nothing. Not a scrap of clothing, not a footprint in the dirt, not an errant tyre track.]


Again, if he had fallen from the upstairs balcony, and carried bleeding to the car, wouldn't the dogs have picked up his scent?

Well my argument isn't the police theory about WT's demise. It is about how he moved himself or was abducted from the property. The abduction theory supported by police for years is in part based upon no scent of WT being found past the property boundaries. I guess their thinking was that if someone had picked him up whilst on foot, there would be a scent trail. Question is was he removed by a visiting /strange car or a car that was already on the property?

 

[katydid23]

Well my argument isn't the police theory about WT's demise. It is about how he moved himself or was abducted from the property. The abduction theory supported by police for years is in part based upon no scent of WT being found past the property boundaries. I guess their thinking was that if someone had picked him up whilst on foot, there would be a scent trail. Question is was he removed by a visiting /strange car or a car that was already on the property?

So instead of an accident, are you theorising that FM decided that morning, to grab the little boy, and rush him into the car, and dispose of him somehow, then come back and say he went missing?

Her mother and daughter didn't notice or hear anything? There was no sudden accident, she just decided to kill him or dump him somewhere?

 

[sleepinoz]

I have it in my notes from the inquest from GO's testimony. So I know it is true. If MSM haven't reported it, I don't know what to tell you. He returned on the 10/10/14 after a phonecall on the afternoon of 12/9/14, from the FGM stating that he couldn't come the next Tuesday.

Actually, would the Police allow him to come while they were still searching? IMO the Police probably asked the FGM to cancel all expected appointments etc.

Also, is it true just because he said it at the inquest? Not really IMO.

 

[k-mac]

So instead of an accident, are you theorising that FM decided that morning, to grab the little boy, and rush him into the car, and dispose of him somehow, then come back and say he went missing?

Her mother and daughter didn't notice or hear anything? There was no sudden accident, she just decided to kill him or dump him somewhere?

Why the jump to 'she JUST decided to 'kill' him'?
Like some random bizaar event.

I don't think one single person here suggests she just decided to 'kill' him.

Panicked? manic??an overreaction?? cover up to avoid prosecution, pretty straight forward theory.
Unintended lash out resulting in death is most probable IMO.

Learning what we have, FM does have anger, anxiety and violence in her DNA.
Red flags surrounding her now, snow balling effect.

I speculate Williams sister has helped the investigation tremendously.....and recently.

 

[k-mac]

Actually, would the Police allow him to come while they were still searching? IMO the Police probably asked the FGM to cancel all expected appointments etc.

Also, is it true just because he said it at the inquest? Not really IMO.

Big call to suggest someone is lying under oath.

 

[Megnut]

Logic. If she went around one corner and Wm wasn't there, she'd go around the next, and the next, until she reached the starting point. No reason to assume he was lost if he was on the move. She never made that circuit, far as we know. I conclude that she encountered Wm after the fist turn.

Maybe Wm never hit the ground but got strung up on the rail.

Had her father been ill, prior to his death? hospitalized? I mean surely she knew where the hospital was. Does it align at all with her supposed route? Might she have initially sped away with him to get him to an ER, but knew it was too late?

I give her no sympathy if this was all a cover up to protect her reputation (as the perfect parent) and status as a fosterer/adoptor.

But as a parent, I CAN imagine a horror at following after a child, to contain them (disciplinary wise), only to witness a catastrophe I couldn't stop.

Personally I suspect she made an immediate calculation and decided, whatever happened there one the side of the house, no one ever must know.

JMO

 

[iiiii's]

Actually, would the Police allow him to come while they were still searching? IMO the Police probably asked the FGM to cancel all expected appointments etc.

Also, is it true just because he said it at the inquest? Not really IMO.

Well, if it isn't true, I'm sure police have all phone records and if it is to their advantage charge him with perjury. Who knows, the FGM probably confirmed what he said. Anyway, why clear up to 4 days in advance for what essentially looked like a little boy lost scenario on the 1st day?!

 

[sleepinoz]

Big call to suggest someone is lying under oath.

Not really, happens all the time IMO.

 

[sleepinoz]

Well, if it isn't true, I'm sure police have all phone records and if it is to their advantage charge him with perjury. Who knows, the FGM probably confirmed what he said. Anyway, why clear up to 4 days in advance for what essentially looked like a little boy lost scenario on the 1st day?!

I'm not saying she didn't call him, I said she was probably asked to call by the Police.

 

[k-mac]

Logic. If she went around one corner and Wm wasn't there, she'd go around the next, and the next, until she reached the starting point. No reason to assume he was lost if he was on the move. She never made that circuit, far as we know. I conclude that she encountered Wm after the fist turn.

Maybe Wm never hit the ground but got strung up on the rail.

Had her father been ill, prior to his death? hospitalized? I mean surely she knew where the hospital was. Does it align at all with her supposed route? Might she have initially sped away with him to get him to an ER, but knew it was too late?

I give her no sympathy if this was all a cover up to protect her reputation (as the perfect parent) and status as a fosterer/adoptor.

But as a parent, I CAN imagine a horror at following after a child, to contain them (disciplinary wise), only to witness a catastrophe I couldn't stop.

Personally I suspect she made an immediate calculation and decided, whatever happened there one the side of the house, no one ever must know.

JMO

I just find it impossible to believe that she wouldn't call an ambulance for a genuine accident.

Even if William was running away from her trying to smack him or something and he fell off the balcony...to me...that is still an accident that she is not responsible for.

Unless she was completely unhinged at the time.
Even then...something nefarious had to be attached to the moment. IMO

 

[iiiii's]

Not really, happens all the time IMO.

Sure. But what is the basis for not believing his testimony, please?

 

[SouthAussie]

Actually, would the Police allow him to come while they were still searching? IMO the Police probably asked the FGM to cancel all expected appointments etc.

Also, is it true just because he said it at the inquest? Not really IMO.

IIRC, GO was quite ill at the inquest. Only testified half the day (or even shorter) and was excused to maybe be recalled later.

I believe he stated that he couldn't remember very well.


Owen told the court he couldn't remember if he had contact with Abbott the day of the disappearance. "See I have contracted Parkinson's Disease and my memory is shot to pieces," he said.

William Tyrrell inquest told scream heard day after disappearance

www.9news.com.au

 

[Megnut]

Also, if the female caregiver chased after Wm because he was using dice wrong or crayons wrong or was coloring relative to the lines wrong, just because she might have been upset doesn't mean Wm necessarily was. That might've boiled her, in fact. If she was stern and he was laughing, for instance. If she was chasing and he thought it was a game, for instance. Upping the aggravation for her, possibly upping the enthusiasm for him. Add in her unnecessary dialogie about Wm and heights (truth leak?) and IMO is just not a stretch chasing vs playing, coupled with speed, height, youth, physics, all of it resulted in a terrible, freak accident...

It's possible that whatever happened, it was a closed injury, no blood.

JMO