Australia Australia - William Tyrrell Disappeared While Playing in Yard, Kendall (NSW), Sept 2014 #76

[Megnut]

Having had a foster child "vanish" previously, who would put another toddler outside on TO????? Risk another vanishing? *** correction: this incident occurred in reverse order, prior to Wm going "missing". Still, it's a terrible idea for "discipline".

And besides, what lesson is a toddler supposed to gather from that? Seems purposefully scary. Like threatening a foster child they'd be taken away.

Did she feel the need to teach Wm a lesson that day? About heights? Recall a pop culture celebrity dangling his toddler over a balcony?

Did she do that? To teach him about recklessness vs. safety and lost her grip?

Roar.

And then absolute silence.

jmo

 

[k-mac]

The photo became the story.

Wearing his Spiderman outfit because she let him. Good mother. Insisting on the singlet. Really good mom. Instructing on the proper rolling of dice. Good, calm mother. Everything under control.

But we now suspect tensions were high. Wm was.... rambunctious. Which she likely couldn't handle. Possible argument between the two fosters. Did the foster father have to go into town for internet access or was that a convenient ploy to diffuse or dodge tension? Leaving the foster mother alone with two children, one of whom didn't... prefer her.

i don't believe the photo captures Wm in a roar at all. I don't think it was a keepsake photo of time at (foster) Grandma's. "I always take pictures, always make scrapbooks." Lie.

If anything, I think she was trying to intimidate Wm. Taking a photo of Wm being "naughty" (as she'd label it) to show "daddy" so (foster) daddy would see how Wm doesn't mind her.

I do think there was a roar that morning.

Wm may have been running after his foster parent.... but I think it's also possible -- perhaps likely -- he was running away from the other one. And slipped, tripped, maybe even inadvertently pushed over the edge.... because one adult was in a perpetual state of push and edge.

The story of the roar IMO was for the sake of the foster grandmother and the other child, in an attempt to force and forge a narrative. "Remember how we all heard him roar... just minutes ago...."

IMO she took a drive no one knew about, most notably the foster grandmother, daughter and father. With ease IMO she nuanced false recall in the youngest and oldest there --

Wm didn't want to climb the tree, too high.

Leakage?

Did Wm take the corner too tight, run onto the verandah, reach the end now at full height, and climb on the rail -- and someone felt compelled to instruct him haughgily kn the dangers of heights, holding him up over the rail? Did he react? A bite? To which she reacted aggressively, even if not entirely intentional.

I think she only got lucky with her photography that captured Wm with his mouth open. She put the roar in there where it wasn't.

JMO

Megnut
I think this is the closest we have come to what really happened to William and the aftermath.

Appreciate your hypothesis.

 

[iiiii's]

Tears as child taken from Tyrrell foster mum's care

Missing toddler William Tyrrell's former foster mother told a child being removed from her care that it wasn't the youngster's fault, a court has heard.

www.perthnow.com.au

Other evidence included a phone call in which the woman referenced a need to "break" the child.

"Needing to 'break' any child, particularly one in out-of-home care ... absolutely establishes a situation where she knew her actions were likely to cause fear but nonetheless continued," Sergeant Marsh said.

I think the judge has got FM sized up well.
Thankfully.

So many cruel moments to consider.
And that's just what the police happened upon by chance survelliance....


What on earth has this little girl endured???

When nobody was watching.....

Does it say in the article who Sargeant Marsh is please?

 

[LolaAngelina]

Having had a foster child "vanish" previously, who would put another toddler outside on TO????? Risk another vanishing?

And besides, what lesson is a toddler supposed to gather from that? Seems purposefully scary. Like threatening a foster child they'd be taken away.

Did she feel the need to teach Wm a lesson that day? About heights? Recall a pop culture celebrity dangling his toddler over a balcony?

Did she do that? To teach him about recklessness vs. safety and lost her grip?

Roar.

And then absolute silence.

jmo

That was 2012, 2 years before William went missing

 

[k-mac]

Having had a foster child "vanish" previously, who would put another toddler outside on TO????? Risk another vanishing?

And besides, what lesson is a toddler supposed to gather from that? Seems purposefully scary. Like threatening a foster child they'd be taken away.

Did she feel the need to teach Wm a lesson that day? About heights? Recall a pop culture celebrity dangling his toddler over a balcony?

Did she do that? To teach him about recklessness vs. safety and lost her grip?

Roar.

And then absolute silence.

jmo

The witnessed time out isolation outside was before William vanished.
Likely around the time they got baby William.??
They already had the girl. Thats why they got William.

interestingly that particular time.....
Seems there is always a naughty child to deal with when a new one is on the scene.

**PATTERN**

 

[k-mac]

Does it say in the article who Sargeant Marsh is please?

think its prosecutor John marsh. typo??

Prosecutor John Marsh said the foster mother should have known her actions would still cause the child to fear her.
"Needing to 'break' any child, particularly one in out-of-home care ... absolutely establishes a situation where she knew her actions were likely to cause fear but nonetheless continued," Sergeant Marsh said.

Tears as child taken from Tyrrell foster mum's care

Missing toddler William Tyrrell's former foster mother told a child being removed from her care that it wasn't the youngster's fault, a court has heard.

www.perthnow.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

Does it say in the article who Sargeant Marsh is please?

He is the Prosecutor…. And yes he a Sergeant … His full title was in one of the early articles …. Police Prosecutor …

 

[FromGermany1]

Having had a foster child "vanish" previously, who would put another toddler outside on TO????? Risk another vanishing? *** correction: this incident occurred in reverse order, prior to Wm going "missing". Still, it's a terrible idea for "discipline".

And besides, what lesson is a toddler supposed to gather from that? Seems purposefully scary. Like threatening a foster child they'd be taken away.

Did she feel the need to teach Wm a lesson that day? About heights? Recall a pop culture celebrity dangling his toddler over a balcony?

Did she do that? To teach him about recklessness vs. safety and lost her grip?

Roar.

And then absolute silence.

jmo

I had roared a lot, if I had been little William, simple for the reason, I would hear FFC's educational tirades less well. I had roared on the deck and roared on the grass and roared everywhere. It's the same as putting a finger in my ears. Nice to hear her NOT, I would have thought as a 3yo.

 

[Awakening]

It does make me wonder if WT was put outside for a time out and either had an accident or was abducted.

 

[JBowie]

Yes, she will be convicted. She has already pled guilty to two charges. Now it will be the severity of the conviction, due to the pending intimidation verdicts.

imo

In NSW we have Section 10 of the NSW Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act which can apply. Can end up with a 2 year good behaviour bond.

What is a section 10?

A section 10 is when you are guilty and sentenced but the court dismisses the offence without recording a conviction. Because the court has not recorded a conviction, you are not given a criminal record, even though found guilty. For traffic offences, that means that you keep your driver’s licence.

This can often be one of the best results in court when a defendant is clearly guilty. [bbm]

Cases where our solicitors have obtained section 10 dismissals include:

. . .

Domestic violence offences, including where a father struck his child 60 times with a sick, a wife stabbed her husband, and a husband choked his wife. [Good grief!!!]

Common assault;

Assault occasioning actual bodily harm;

Reckless wounding (stabbing);

Affray.

Section 10 - No Conviction Orders when found guilty

No conviction orders. Australian Criminal Law Group are Sydney best criminal lawyers to help you get a section 10 and avoid a criminal record.

aclawgroup.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

In NSW we have Section 10 of the NSW Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act which can apply. Can end up with a 2 year good behaviour bond.

What is a section 10?

A section 10 is when you are guilty and sentenced but the court dismisses the offence without recording a conviction. Because the court has not recorded a conviction, you are not given a criminal record, even though found guilty. For traffic offences, that means that you keep your driver’s licence.

This can often be one of the best results in court when a defendant is clearly guilty. [bbm]

Cases where our solicitors have obtained section 10 dismissals include:

. . .

Domestic violence offences, including where a father struck his child 60 times with a sick, a wife stabbed her husband, and a husband choked his wife. [Good grief!!!]

Common assault;

Assault occasioning actual bodily harm;

Reckless wounding (stabbing);

Affray.

Section 10 - No Conviction Orders when found guilty

No conviction orders. Australian Criminal Law Group are Sydney best criminal lawyers to help you get a section 10 and avoid a criminal record.

aclawgroup.com.au

I expected something like this for the assault charges, the guilty pleas…

I am wondering if the intimidation charges will result in a harsher penalty?? (If found guilty)

But I am sure the defence will argue for a Section 10 …

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Megnut]

It does make me wonder if WT was put outside for a time out and either had an accident or was abducted.

They were already outside so I don't think this applies but what it does show is her really poor judgment. Toddlers respond to redirection. Lessons, not so much. TOs outside???? Unsupervised? Lord.

Gather up all those children she has fostered. There will be stories (true stories).

IMO they'll match the stories (true stories) told by children (fostered, adopted or naturally born) who have had to try to grow up in homes with narcissistic mothers.

No one can behave that well all the time, especially under duress and with unreasonable, rigid, ever- shifting, and never-clear expectations.

Holy confusion. Iloveyous after, only making it harder.

Jmo

 

[silvercrown]

If convicted, any chance the judge will lift the restrictions on publishing the names of the FFC and MFC?

 

[JBowie]

If convicted, any chance the judge will lift the restrictions on publishing the names of the FFC and MFC?

I doubt it. That ruling applies to privacy restrictions relating to fostered children.

However, as I've said here before, the more nefarious this pair becomes with their numerous court cases, the more likely IMO that more and more places on the Web will start naming them, especially outside of Oz.

 

[iiiii's]

Intimidation Charges NSW | JB Solicitors

What Constitutes Intimidation?​

Intimidation is a form of coercive behaviour that aims to instil fear or distress in another person. In NSW, the Crimes (Domestic and Personal Violence) Act 2007 outlines the offence of intimidation, which involves the following elements:

1. Unlawful: The conduct must be unlawful, meaning it goes beyond acceptable (reasonable apprehension) or legal behaviour.
2. Intent: The person alleged engaging in the conduct must have the intention of causing the other person to fear physical or mental harm to the victim.
3. Fear or Distress: The victim must experience fear, alarm, or distress as a result of the conduct.

I just found this section around the elements judged in intimidation charges. Element 3. I think will be debated by the defence in their submissions for the FFC charges. I think the defence attempted to demonstrate to the court today that the child did not appear to express fear or distress to the threats of violence at the time of the event or to other parties later. She may well have done in her testimony or through psychological counselling but I don't think we have been privy to that information so far. This might be like the deliberately lying to the NSWCC charge. We know she did but there may be room for doubt about the effect. I have a strong feeling this case will be appealed, I am struggling with some procedural fairness issues and am wondering if the FFC's legal counsel is as well. I am no legal expert. MOO

 

[silvercrown]

If the reasons given in this article are anything to go by, perhaps the sister wouldn’t be too bothered by the suppression being lifted. I wonder what her legal representatives and social workers think about that.

The protection offered by the suppression seems to serve them better than it does any of the children.

Why William Tyrrell's foster parents have never revealed identities

William Tyrrell's foster parents have not revealed their identities in the nine years since the then-toddler disappeared in a bid to protect the privacy of his younger siblings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Couldbe]

If the reasons given in this article are anything to go by, perhaps the sister wouldn’t be too bothered by the suppression being lifted. I wonder what her legal representatives and social workers think about that.

The protection offered by the suppression seems to serve them better than it does any of the children.

Why William Tyrrell's foster parents have never revealed identities

William Tyrrell's foster parents have not revealed their identities in the nine years since the then-toddler disappeared in a bid to protect the privacy of his younger siblings.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Once all of the current Charges against the FM and FF have been brought to completion, most importantly the young girl needs to be safe to lead a normal life.

 

[Angeline]

I've been absent from this thread for a while, but I've still been following the case through the news.

It seems that FM and FF are not the angelic parents they portrayed themselves to be (that's an understatement, I know.)

It makes sense why they came across as *too* perfect. It was all a huge act to cover up what they are really like (allegedly) behind closed doors.

 

[Megnut]

MOO

Just take a moment to picture Wm saying he wanted his mommy

Then imagine him being schooled -- birth mommy, real mommy, birth mommy bad, real mommy good.

Now imagine Wm saying he wants his mommy. Again.

It's almost like you can hear the wooden spoon.

jmo

 

[Awakening]

They were already outside so I don't think this applies but what it does show is her really poor judgment. Toddlers respond to redirection. Lessons, not so much. TOs outside???? Unsupervised? Lord.

Gather up all those children she has fostered. There will be stories (true stories).

IMO they'll match the stories (true stories) told by children (fostered, adopted or naturally born) who have had to try to grow up in homes with narcissistic mothers.

No one can behave that well all the time, especially under duress and with unreasonable, rigid, ever- shifting, and never-clear expectations.

Holy confusion. Iloveyous after, only making it harder.

Jmo

IMO we don’t know if they were inside or outside when it all happened. We are relying on FM’s account which could be intentionally or unintentionally false.