Austria - Thomas Plamberger leaves gf, Kerstin Gurtner to freeze to death on Austria's tallest mountain - charged with manslaughter - Jan.19/2025

[Charlot123]

And btw. No matter what his phone was doing, how it could possibly malfunction.
He climbed up and down then for God's sake. Sure as hell he could use his hands. He could keep trying to SOS in every direction. There are huts, there are restaurants, hotels, businesses, some people go out to have a smoke, some people go out with their dogs at all times of night, its not middle of nowhere but one of the most iconic landscapes in Austria, there 100% are people looking at it all times of the day.
He didn't know that?
He didn't know how to make sos signal?
He didn't knew how to make climbers distress signal with his headlamp?
He didn't knew that even just random light on the mountain would alert any local?

He summited few dozens of over 4000m mountains and he never heard anything about it from his male companions?

There was her phone, too…

Mostly, he had a woman in distress and hypothermic on the mountain peak at night. He should have been begging for help. Not for a GF, for any companion. He, an experienced mountaineer, did nothing. He left her to die and saved himself.

It looks criminal to me.

 

[Charlot123]

Some people are wisely pointing out that if with story like this all what guy can get is three years, then its basically and advertisement for other murderers.
Just worst case scenario youre gonna get caught lying, caught on cctv, spotted by people, called by rescue teams, flewn to by heli, turning your phone off and doing absolutely everything what could be done to make sure she wont make it to the end of the trail - youre facing just three years. Thats nothing. So many people have to worry with getting 25, live or death sentence in worst case scenario for them. So why not go for it?

Also, one more thing.
That guy who was doing record running-freeclimbing Gross in summer. He was not going exactly via Studlgrat but kinda to the side here and there to pass other climbers.
Maybe thats the reason heli had to look for them and lit the mountain. No way to divide much in any direction last 100m but bit below and below... theoretically... for someone who knows that route as good as that guy who ran and kept catching on these rocks knowing exactly where to put his hands and feet. She would be totally lost even on the route after dark but if he took her slightly off it there would be totally no way for her to know where to even put her feet an not fall. It looks almost like a wall on the left as youre going up. And not much better on the right.

As theyre confirming what could still be considered misinfo after all these differences in articles with details and specifics all over the place there is NO room for maybe he thought something very silly and naive and that handsight is 20/20.

This was murder.
Murder.
M u r d e r.

Murder pulled off in such an outrageous way that even the Mountain got angry and destroyed Studlgrat route so nobody else will ever climb it again.
Yeah, generally mountains cant get angry but in this case I prefer to believe that this one did.

The problem is, that we have too many questionable stories happening on big mountains and perhaps, most of the world’s best mountaineers have some questions to answer. Even the life of best of the best, Reinhold Messner, is having that dark point, the death of his less-trained brother. What do you say about deaths that no one witnessed? So when in comes to Thomas, all these people are very evasive in their answers (“mountains won’t forgive” or such). (They’d say more, but they have own stories. But, I want to see a single elite climber that would defend Thomas.)

But at least big expeditions are advertised, planned well in advance, people hear about them. Lots of perks and lots of glory if successful. Deaths that happen are not intentional.

Here, everyone has just one thought: that it appears intentional. It may be not, but then it is sheer idiocy, sorry to say. An experienced alpine climber drags his inexperienced girlfriend at Grossglockner, making all possible missteps, leaves her there and she dies. He has to explain every step of his. There were witnesses observing them that called Alpine rescue police. There are webcams. He is responsible for Kerstin.

His defense is alluding to many other deaths in the mountains and the certain culture of the sport. But it doesn’t apply to him at all. The groups planning large expeditions consist of experienced people knowing the risks but getting the perks and ads, too. They are professionals. They belong to elite clubs. They make money. They write books. They get into politics. They become famous. They don’t plan to leave their dying friends. They sometimes have to make hard decisions. Thomas - just left a body on the mountain.

Kerstin was an outsider who trusted a much more experienced boyfriend. He didn’t plan it right, he didn’t ask for help, he refused help and switched off her phone. He left her to die.

And mostly, he says it “was doomed”. An expedition to K-2 or Everest can get doomed. Grossglockner was his backyard. Sorry, if you lock someone out of the house at - 20 C for the day and night, it, too, becomes “doomed”.

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

Is him turning off his phone new info? I remember we knew he put his phone on silent, but he TURNED IT OFF completely?!?!?!

Also the first call to "mountain police" and then "emergency call"... as a person who has never been to a mountain before (LOL), are these two different things? What is the difference? Is a call to mountain police not an "emergency call"?

 

[LadyL]

En azından korunabilir ile soğuğu engellenebilirdi zavallı kadın sadece bir anı biriktirmekti

sorry I can't read that language and can't figure out how to translate it
can you translate and post in English please?

 

[espirtu pampa]

sorry I can't read that language and can't figure out how to translate it
can you translate and post in English please?

At least the cold could be blocked by protection, the poor woman was just to save a memory ( a souvenir ?)

 

[Charlot123]

At least the cold could be blocked by protection, the poor woman was just to save a memory ( a souvenir ?)

To create a memory?

 

[beubeubeu]

Amazing job, thank you!
Geschichte is story, right. ))

(Gesicht is face; I remember totally confusing the two words when I was learning German decades ago.) But if there are any confusion, my hubby knows German so feel free to ask! )

It didnt automatically catch everything, there were some missing words here and there (just a few) but the one I was least confident about. At 0:46. I have no idea, I havent heard that much German recently so for me it could be gesichte or vielleicht - i made it purple ad added a note cause Im totally unsure about this one. Could as well be totally different word.

LE do have both his and her phones, so I wonder whether they were able to find anything indicating problems in their relationship or any other kind of motive. Presumably, they have also interviewed their friends and family. If there isn't anything there, maybe that's why they don't want to charge anything more than negligence.

Yeah, but how much could really be there digitally in this kind of relationship?
They can have more pics than average couple, but having almost every weekend packed up with physical activities together everything would be direct.
Did Kerstin lived with her family at 32 years old? Possibly but if not - work, sleep, daily chores, weekend trips and there is not that much left. Even if they were visiting her fam regularly together, that likely wasnt a thing where they were actually spending some serious amount of time with him. Take few months off considering that she might not introduce him to them that early or just havent experienced the issues to come yet.

I would be very surprised if in circumstances like this family could tell much about the guy.
I mean young, working, very active guy + young, working, very active girl. Unless she directly told them then more likely than not whenever they interacted with him, it would be just a facade.
Thomas didnt seem to me like the kind of guy who would show up to help his gf's dad to fix the shed over the weekend and repot plants with her mom. And like some holiday visits, maybe birthday parties. That could be very superficial.
Could be very similar with friends. They dont seem to share climbing friends. They werent working together. And it seem to be rather "young" relationship. How often could she see her friends and how often they could see Thomas - once, twice a week at best and probably briefly. Most likely she would have to directly tell them.

Would she? Could she? She had to trust him and trust him a lot to even go on Grossglockner with him. She was a newbie climber, not newbie alpine girl. She had to know that climbing Gross is very challenging in January, she may (and I believe she didnt) have no idea exactly how insanely hard and dangerous it is. If, in her eyes she felt that she can trust him, there couldnt be that much to go on to build up an indication of planned murder. And people close to her would most likely know even less.

 

[beubeubeu]

There was her phone, too…

But was that phone in her pocket?
Did she accessed and used that phone?
Could she even do that?
Theyre not saying anything about her phone. Could be as well conveniently forgotten in the car. Or slided into her backpack as he was leaving. Or just impossible to access.
With some reason she had that damned splitboard still on her. Could be even using it or consider using it while walking to Studlgrat. Could believe that she will use it again on the other side. But for how long? Till 2:00 PM? 3:00 PM? Till it got dark? Even if he somehow convinced her to keep it on, even if it was her most valuable, money and sentimentalwise possessions. That sentiment should wear off pretty fast with the wind, its weight, all the stones around and the darkness. Yet she havent took it off even then. Why?
W H Y. Its not like she was there alone and we may theorize that she lost her ability to think clearly due to the cold/wind/stress/altitude/exhaustion. Not the case. Cause he was there. And he was pretty okay at the time, had to be, to climb up and down at 2:00 AM.
There is literally no other explanation that he wanted her to keep it on. And if he managed to do that, and I cant see it as very complicated task, as he had to literally have her on a leash (rope) all that time.

 

[Charlot123]

But was that phone in her pocket?
Did she accessed and used that phone?
Could she even do that?
Theyre not saying anything about her phone. Could be as well conveniently forgotten in the car. Or slided into her backpack as he was leaving. Or just impossible to access.
With some reason she had that damned splitboard still on her. Could be even using it or consider using it while walking to Studlgrat. Could believe that she will use it again on the other side. But for how long? Till 2:00 PM? 3:00 PM? Till it got dark? Even if he somehow convinced her to keep it on, even if it was her most valuable, money and sentimentalwise possessions. That sentiment should wear off pretty fast with the wind, its weight, all the stones around and the darkness. Yet she havent took it off even then. Why?
W H Y. Its not like she was there alone and we may theorize that she lost her ability to think clearly due to the cold/wind/stress/altitude/exhaustion. Not the case. Cause he was there. And he was pretty okay at the time, had to be, to climb up and down at 2:00 AM.
There is literally no other explanation that he wanted her to keep it on. And if he managed to do that, and I cant see it as very complicated task, as he had to literally have her on a leash (rope) all that time.

I remember (posted an article somewhere in the thread) that 1) the people observing the headlights called the police; 2) the police found their car on the parking lot; 3) opened it (how?) and found documents with the names; 4) got the phone numbers 5) called to no avail. So I assume that they knew both numbers and tried both. If people need to, I can find the article but I think we posted it three times. So all I know is that neither phone answered and then they sent a helicopter.

 

[beubeubeu]

The problem is, that we have too many questionable stories happening on big mountains and perhaps, most of the world’s best mountaineers have some questions to answer. Even the life of best of the best, Reinhold Messner, is having that dark point, the death of his less-trained brother. What do you say about deaths that no one witnessed? So when in comes to Thomas, all these people are very evasive in their answers (“mountains won’t forgive” or such). (They’d say more, but they have own stories. But, I want to see a single elite climber that would defend Thomas.)

How is that relevant?
With a bigger picture yes, very relevant. But doesnt we have these questionable stories with everything? On the sea? Even on cruises? On hunting trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? Holidays in Thailand trips? Leaving a friend behind at parties? Forcing workers to go against safety to keep their jobs? Exploiting people in work? That list could go longer than Studlgrat route in font number 6.

His defense is alluding to many other deaths in the mountains and the certain culture of the sport. But it doesn’t apply to him at all. The groups planning large expeditions consist of experienced people knowing the risks but getting the perks and ads, too. They are professionals. They belong to elite clubs. They make money. They write books. They get into politics. They become famous. They don’t plan to leave their dying friends. They sometimes have to make hard decisions. Thomas - just left a body on the mountain.

If certain culture of a sport is to neglect all the reason then that sport should be banned forever in every country that can enforce it.
Or even better. High fees to climb any mountain thats taller than 2.000m and/or any route harder than moderate. Require paid permits in advance, Yosemite style. Require first aid, climbing, geology, weather, safety, climbing history courses and exams done for everyone who wants to climb anything harder than "moderate". Require to have it on paper to have it formally confirmed who the tour leader is. Require gear checkups on the entry routes with fees for even showing up without appropriate ones.

That sounds absolutely crazy to me, but who I am to judge. Im no climber. But IF anything what Thomas did fits that certain climbing culture that allegedly exists then there is really no other way to go, isnt it?
Thats gonna create many new job opportunities, so even more good can come out of it than just safety. Should be named after Thomas so all people who enjoy mountaneering would remember him every time they wont be able to afford a hike that should be free.

 

[beubeubeu]

Is him turning off his phone new info? I remember we knew he put his phone on silent, but he TURNED IT OFF completely?!?!?!

Probably not new but it was uncertain with all the translations, mistranslations and rather quick/short coverages of the story.
Before he got officially charged it was just about his phone being on silent. Some sources claimed he turned it to that mode, some other wrote as it just was on silent mode (possibly all the time).
More details and info coming are just making him and whole thing look even worse.

I explained to myself why his phone was on silent. I even, no issue, explained why and how could it - no ill will - end up turned silent/back to silent after the call.
But turning that phone silent and off? NOPE.

Also the first call to "mountain police" and then "emergency call"... as a person who has never been to a mountain before (LOL), are these two different things? What is the difference? Is a call to mountain police not an "emergency call"?

No difference. Lots of calls happened on that night.
Mostly it was the mountain police calling Thomas's and Kerstin's phone.
He wasnt answering.
Then he made the first call, at 0:35 AM. Thats the first call to "mountain police".
Its unclear what he said then but right away he turned phone silent.
Havent tried to call again, havent picked up incoming calls from the rescuers.
Then he turned his phone off.
Left Kerstin, climbed up, descended, got to the Adler's hut at 3:30 AM and made his "emergency call" from there.

 

[beubeubeu]

I remember (posted an article somewhere in the thread) that 1) the people observing the headlights called the police; 2) the police found their car on the parking lot; 3) opened it (how?) and found documents with the names; 4) got the phone numbers 5) called to no avail. So I assume that they knew both numbers and tried both. If people need to, I can find the article but I think we posted it three times. So all I know is that neither phone answered and then they sent a helicopter.

Yes, but considering that police statements are sometimes worded very carefully... that really doesnt say one or another. They say nothing about her phone but that mountain police was calling her too, and that there was no response. I tend to assume that it was with her (or him) on the Grossglockner, but could as well not be.

 

[Charlot123]

How is that relevant?
With a bigger picture yes, very relevant. But doesnt we have these questionable stories with everything? On the sea? Even on cruises? On hunting trips? Hiking trips? Camping trips? Holidays in Thailand trips? Leaving a friend behind at parties? Forcing workers to go against safety to keep their jobs? Exploiting people in work? That list could go longer than Studlgrat route in font number 6.

If certain culture of a sport is to neglect all the reason then that sport should be banned forever in every country that can enforce it.
Or even better. High fees to climb any mountain thats taller than 2.000m and/or any route harder than moderate. Require paid permits in advance, Yosemite style. Require first aid, climbing, geology, weather, safety, climbing history courses and exams done for everyone who wants to climb anything harder than "moderate". Require to have it on paper to have it formally confirmed who the tour leader is. Require gear checkups on the entry routes with fees for even showing up without appropriate ones.

That sounds absolutely crazy to me, but who I am to judge. Im no climber. But IF anything what Thomas did fits that certain climbing culture that allegedly exists then there is really no other way to go, isnt it?
Thats gonna create many new job opportunities, so even more good can come out of it than just safety. Should be named after Thomas so all people who enjoy mountaneering would remember him every time they wont be able to afford a hike that should be free.

I don't think you understood what I wanted to say, @beubeubeu. The truth is, I read Mr. Jellinek's statement. (Mr. Jelinek is Thomas's lawyer). I think i am mentally debating with him.

„Situation war aussichtslos“: Partner von toter Bergsteigerin meldet sich zu Wort

Im Jänner erfror eine Salzburgerin am Großglockner, ihr Partner hat sie entkräftet zurückgelassen. Der Mann, gegen den wegen fahrlässiger Tötung ermittelt wird, nimmt erstmals zu den Vorwürfen Stellung.

www.rechtsanwalt-salzburg-jelinek.at

"Both considered themselves to be sufficiently experienced, adequately prepared, and well-equipped,” the statement reads. Both possessed “relevant alpine experience” and were “in very good physical condition.”"

So see, this is how TP wants it to look like. As if the climb was the escapade of two equals until the situation suddenly became desperate. And he also blames the helicopter and the rescuers. Which is horrible.

In the initial statement, I believe, he might be hinting at multiple situations happening in "big mountains". What I wanted to say is that the "big mountain stories" are no analogy to his situation because 1) their level of mountainous experience is incomparable with what Kerstin had and 2) people who climb dangerous mountains are aware of the risks. They know the statistics. Ultimately, it may be their choice. They take these risks because they beat the odds at other mountains. Kerstin apparently was not an experienced mountaineer and she did not know the risks involved. (Her clothes and lack of safety kit for her vouch for it).

The parallel could be the following. Circus ropewalkers. It is a dangerous work. Most use safety ropes but some don't. Their choice. However, they train for years (many grow up in circus families). They do it daily, know their risks, their circus and their ropes, too.

If you put a random person up there and say, walk, it is safe, it will be incomparable.

So IMO, for Stüdlgrat, Thomas was the ropewalker. And Kerstin, a random person.

 

[Charlot123]

Yes, but considering that police statements are sometimes worded very carefully... that really doesnt say one or another. They say nothing about her phone but that mountain police was calling her too, and that there was no response. I tend to assume that it was with her (or him) on the Grossglockner, but could as well not be.

I can't imagine forgetting my cellphone. Plus, photos! They had to take two. IMHO.