AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #2

[MissDemeanor]

I feel sure they would have interviewed anyone else living where bf lives. I don't think she ever made it there, for what it is worth. I wonder if he turned his phone off to get some sleep, knowing she would keep calling or texting.

Since no one knows what happened to her or where she went after she went home to change clothes and her last contact with the cab company, what is it that makes you so sure she never made it to the boyfriend's?

I am wondering what info or theory you are leaning towards that gives you the feeling she was abducted (you stated you think this) somewhere else. Do you think it could have been in her apartment or right outside of it and by someone she knew?

Or are you thinking random?

I'm very interested in your opinion!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Hey Sand! I have been doing the same while driving around Scottsdale. I've even found myself looking at the edges of the many lakes. I wish we knew where the boyfriend lived. Does anyone know?

They should check that Lake off baseline as well. Kiwanis Lake.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

I think this has been very productive, last night and today...these new theories. I feel we are honing in more on what her paths may have been and why or when.

For instance, I now think it is highly likely she may have very well been still near her abandoned car when she called for a cab. She may not have wanted to go home after the wreck, at first, and this could be why she wanted the cabbie to meet her at AM/PM.

In considering this, taking into account the 911 call at 3:44, she would have been driving for at least another 5 or 10 minutes before she found a place to stop. She probably didn't get out immediately. She may have been very scared and sat there wondering what to do, providing she was alone and no one had come along to help her. She might have gotten out of her car and inspected the damage and tires. This could have easily taken another 10 or 15 minutes, depending on how frightened she might have been and what she was doing.

So that would put her at calling the boyfriend at 4:10 to 4:17 11 times and trying to reach him to come and help her or tell her what to do.

Then after she couldn't get in touch with him, frustrated as hell, she called the cab company to meet her at AMPM.

But she changed her mind and decided to walk home. She was distraught that he hadn't answered her calls. Also, she was carrying a huge bag and she wanted to change clothes.

She then sent the b/f a text at 4:47 saying she was coming over. (It was 4:47 wasn't it?)

Makes sense to me......

ETA: Yes! This makes so much more sense to me. I couldn't for the life of me figure out why she wouldn't want the cab to pick her up at her apartment and why she wanted to walk to the AMPM instead. It makes a lot of sense she might have not even planned to back to the apartment and didn't want the cab to meet her at the wreck and know about the accident.

But then she changed her mind and went to the apartment. 2Hip can map this out for us.

I remember the times like the back of my hand now (I think - correct me if I get anything wrong please please!). So I'll try and do an update for now:

-----------------------------
Timeline Start 3:44am
-----------------------------



It is a 1 minute drive from the area Adrienne crashed to where she left her car on W Brown and Roosevelt. (however she may have driven slower due to damaged car/tires increasing the trip time to possibly be longer than 1 minute.)



It is a 5 minute walk from Roosevelt to 5th street and 5th up to AS Apartment. (Maybe 6 or 7 minutes if her apartment was further west in the complex.).



It is a 7 minute walk from her complex to the am pm.
------------------
End 5:07 am.
--------------------

 

[cluciano63]

Since no one knows what happened to her or where she went after she went home to change clothes and her last contact with the cab company, what is it that makes you so sure she never made it to the boyfriend's?

I am wondering what info or theory you are leaning towards that gives you the feeling she was abducted (you stated you think this) somewhere else. Do you think it could have been in her apartment or right outside of it and by someone she knew?

Or are you thinking random?

I'm very interested in your opinion!

Not basing my opinion on much other than what we know. I think if she made it to bf's, there would be another chapter to what we know, i.e he sent her away, or whatever. I don't believe she changed her mind about trying to get there, just because it was the middle of the night and that had not stopped her so far. I think she was taken, or accepted a ride someplace near the meeting point for the taxi.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

This is my theory based on the distance- maps I just posted here

AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #2 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

-----------------------------
Timeline Start 3:44am
-----------------------------

View attachment 35601

It is a 1 minute drive from the area Adrienne crashed to where she left her car on W Brown and Roosevelt. (however she may have driven slower due to damaged car/tires increasing the trip time to possibly be longer than 1 minute.)

So I'm estimating her car was parked on W brown and Roosevelt by 3:50 am, well before AS called her BF from 4:10-4:17 am. That's nearly a 20 minute gap of time after she would have presumably dropped her car to when she began to call the boyfriend. IMO.

View attachment 35602

It is a 5 minute walk from Roosevelt to 5th street and 5th up to AS Apartment. (Maybe 6 or 7 minutes if her apartment was further west in the complex.).

This 5 minute walk would be around 3:50-3:57 am estimated. During the walk she had not even called him yet. IMHO. In fact, she should have been home by 3:57-4:00 am after the wreck. This leads me to believe she called the BF when she was changing at her apartment around 4:10-4:17 am. She also called the cab from her apartment at 4:23, presumably still at the apartment.

At 4:43, 20 minutes after calling the cab and presumably after getting the call that the cab had arrived at AMPM, Adrienne texts her bf to say "I'm Coming Over".

So from around 4:43am - 5:00 am she is at apartment still while the cabbie has been called and is waiting at the AMPM.

View attachment 35603

It is a 7 minute walk from her complex to the am pm. If she were truly a minute away around 5:05 am, she would have began her walk to the am pm at 4:59 am.

So,

She got to her apartment around 4:00 am and left around 5:00 am according to my estimations and theory. That's nearly an hour! I didnt think she stayed that long to change her clothes....hm.
------------------
End 5:07 am.
--------------------

IMHO

 

[MissDemeanor]

Not basing my opinion on much other than what we know. I think if she made it to bf's, there would be another chapter to what we know, i.e he sent her away, or whatever. I don't believe she changed her mind about trying to get there, just because it was the middle of the night and that had not stopped her so far. I think she was taken, or accepted a ride someplace near the meeting point for the taxi.

Ohhhhhh of course. The fact that she didn't meet the taxi and her phone either went dead or was turned off. Yes that would indicate an estimated time of when she suddenly vanished. In between 5:06 and 5:07.

But maybe if like I said above, if she hadn't planned on going home and that's why she asked the cabbie to meet her at the AMPM, maybe even after she told cabbie she would "be there in a minute" ..... Maybe she decided to just no show. After all, we pretty much know she wasn't thinking too clearly.

Dang....I'm feeling like we're going around in circles but hopefully something we post will help someone to come with something we haven't thought if before.

I can only wish!!!

 

[MissDemeanor]

I remember the times like the back of my hand now (I think - correct me if I get anything wrong please please!). So I'll try and do an update for now:

-----------------------------
Timeline Start 3:44am
-----------------------------

View attachment 35601

It is a 1 minute drive from the area Adrienne crashed to where she left her car on W Brown and Roosevelt. (however she may have driven slower due to damaged car/tires increasing the trip time to possibly be longer than 1 minute.)

So I'm estimating her car was parked on W brown and Roosevelt by 3:50 am, well before AS called her BF from 4:10-4:17 am. That's nearly a 20 minute gap of time after she would have presumably dropped her car to when she began to call the boyfriend. IMO.

View attachment 35602

It is a 5 minute walk from Roosevelt to 5th street and 5th up to AS Apartment. (Maybe 6 or 7 minutes if her apartment was further west in the complex.).

This 5 minute walk would be around 3:50-3:57 am estimated. During the walk she had not even called him yet. IMHO. In fact, she should have been home by 3:57-4:00 am after the wreck. This leads me to believe she called the BF when she was changing at her apartment around 4:10-4:17 am. She texted him at this time after the calls to say she was "coming over". She also called the cab from her apartment at 4:23 If my timeline is correct.

View attachment 35603

It is a 7 minute walk from her complex to the am pm. If she were truly a minute away around 5:05 am, she would have began her walk to the am pm at 5:00 am.

She got to her apartment around 4:00 am and left around 5:00 am according to my estimations. That's nearly an hour! I didnt think she stayed that long to change her clothes....hm.
------------------
End 5:07 am.
--------------------

IMHO

Oh this is so awesome. Thanks again!!!

 

[MissDemeanor]

2Hip.... Can you do a map of where her car was found to the AM/PM?

I'm thinking she might have originally thought she might walk to the AM/PM from the wreck and then maybe she changed her mind, like halfway, or outside if the poster, illdigya, was correct in that she might have seen a cop, or just changed her mind and decided to go back to her apartment after all.

Can you do a map with her walking from the wreck half way to the AM/PM and then to her apartment?

I would like to know how long that would take and also what she would have walked past...shortcuts, etc.

Do you mind? LOL

Thanks!

 

[MissDemeanor]

Not basing my opinion on much other than what we know. I think if she made it to bf's, there would be another chapter to what we know, i.e he sent her away, or whatever. I don't believe she changed her mind about trying to get there, just because it was the middle of the night and that had not stopped her so far. I think she was taken, or accepted a ride someplace near the meeting point for the taxi.

The only thing I do want to point out here is that 5:07 am isn't really the "middle of the night". I keep forgetting myself that it is getting light outside. And remember Goblin said he went out there on his bike at that time and was very surprised how light it was.

Yeah, I think you are right that if she had made it there we would have another chapter, and I do think she met up with someone....

Gosh I hate to think we have, like someone said, predators around every corner.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

2Hip.... Can you do a map of where her car was found to the AM/PM?

I'm thinking she might have originally thought she might walk to the AM/PM from the wreck and then maybe she changed her mind, like halfway, or outside if the poster, illdigya, was correct in that she might have seen a cop, or just changed her mind and decided to go back to her apartment after all.

Can you do a map with her walking from the wreck half way to the AM/PM and then to her apartment?

I would like to know how long that would take and also what she would have walked past...shortcuts, etc.

Do you mind? LOL

Thanks!

Don't mind one bit. I'm on it now for ya. Thanks!

 

[MissDemeanor]

Don't mind one bit. I'm on it now for ya. Thanks!

Thanks so much! be back in a few to look at it. Have to go get my car .... new tires.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

a map of where her car was found to the AM/PM: total walking time - 11 minutes.





"Can you do a map with her walking from the wreck half way to the AM/PM and then to her apartment?":

What is interesting is I'm sure she would cut through the park if this were the case, rather than walking te length of Roosevelt to UNI and AM PM.

Google maps would not let me ping the middle of the park as a halfway point, so I couldnt determine this distance but I'm assuming it would be about 3 minute walk from the car to the middle of the park.

I would like to know how long that would take and also what she would have walked past...shortcuts, etc.:

That damn park i hate would be in the middle of the perfect diagonal shortcut.... . Taking the park shortcut would probably cut her walk time by about a good 5 minutes.



Do you mind? LOL:

Nope!

Thanks! :

You're welcome!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Not basing my opinion on much other than what we know. I think if she made it to bf's, there would be another chapter to what we know, i.e he sent her away, or whatever. I don't believe she changed her mind about trying to get there, just because it was the middle of the night and that had not stopped her so far. I think she was taken, or accepted a ride someplace near the meeting point for the taxi.

I agree. Those two minutes between 5:05 and 5:07 are crucial.

I believe she was walking during the time she called the cab to tell him she was one minute away and she encountered someone during that walk who ended up abducting her.

Since it was beginning to be light out and there are joggers/witnesses more likely to have noticed any screaming/struggling, I believe Adrienne Willingly got into the car with this person indicating she most likely knew this person that she got into the car with.

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

Why was she so late getting to the cab? Hadn't he been waiting since the call at 4:23 (to pick her up)? Granted he arrived within 20 minutes after she called in (as is the companies policy to show within 20 minutes of call), but still...

She called the cab again almost 45 minutes after her initial call to confirm she was still showing, only for her phone to be shut off one minute later. What was the hold up?!?!? 45 minutes?!?!?

 

[goblinsolo]

a map of where her car was found to the AM/PM: total walking time - 11 minutes.

View attachment 35605



"Can you do a map with her walking from the wreck half way to the AM/PM and then to her apartment?":

What is interesting is I'm sure she would cut through the park if this were the case, rather than walking te length of Roosevelt to UNI and AM PM.

Google maps would not let me ping the middle of the park as a halfway point, so I couldnt determine this distance but I'm assuming it would be about 3 minute walk from the car to the middle of the park.

I would like to know how long that would take and also what she would have walked past...shortcuts, etc.:

That damn park i hate would be in the middle of the perfect diagonal shortcut.... . Taking the park shortcut would probably cut her walk time by about a good 5 minutes.



Do you mind? LOL:

Nope!

Thanks! :

You're welcome!

my last lil trip out... i said i backtracked a bit from ampm, round midnight. on 7th st east actually. its a very strange street, from 7th to roosevelt.. i remember fondly from over a decade ago, and it hadn't changed much.

woe to be to anyone who walks it late at night, it feels like night of the living dead by the 7th/ roosevelt area. a big big grass/trash/tree area by that corner on southwest side, it bummed me out over a decade ago walking home there at night, and it still is depressing and spooky.

so the theory is that she headed this way, from the wreck, prior to going home to change clothes?

ya know, IF she is that knowledgeable of the area/streets, she would prob not of headed down 7th street. she would of just gone down to university and then to ampm. and, it would make sense then that she thought to say, YA KNOW, I SHOULD GET ME A CAB AT AMPM because it would be something of a landmark in her sights. from either hardy, or university.

i just dont know why she would head down 7th street. shes got 5th street, which is actually in comparison much less desolate, and to be honest prob safer after midnight, to be near a public large park that isnt so covered in darkness, then 7th.

and university, too. the thing w university, that makes some theories make sense, is that IF she went thattta way as we theorize, if she didnt go home first after accident, is that a person could of seen her on university and followed her, as their is much much more reason to think that someone on that street was cruising for trouble early morn, than a random in the side streets.

for me, i dont see the theory of her going to ampm first, before home. someone explain why thats the on the table thoughts for now?

cheers

by pythagorian , the distance of roosevelt to uni to ampm, should be identical. if not, close

 

[AngelaH]

Exactly - it is fairly light out at 5:06 am. I live in Las Vegas and go to work at 5 am. It is getting light out and there are people up and about (going to work, jogging) at that time of the day. Didn't someone say there was a bus stop near the area? I would agree that it doesn't seem likely she was snatched and put up a struggle and no one would have heard or seen anything. Maybe she headed back to the apartment as she realized she didn't have her wallet and someone 'intercepted' her on the way?

 

[goblinsolo]

isnt this all rather a strange angle to even worry about, does if it even matter what her path was after accident and her diversions in that path IF EVIDENCE SHOWS she went to house after the accident and changed clothing, etc?

what does any of this lead us to? she obviously got back home after wreck, and from that hardy/brown area is her final movements before her dissapearance?

is that not 100% the case? or, where am i wrong in that?

 

[goblinsolo]

Why was she so late getting to the cab? Hadn't he been waiting since the call at 4:23 (to pick her up)? Granted he arrived within 20 minutes after she called in (as is the companies policy to show within 20 minutes of call), but still...

She called the cab again almost 45 minutes after her initial call to confirm she was still showing, only for her phone to be shut off one minute later. What was the hold up?!?!? 45 minutes?!?!?

11 phone calls, a txt to her guyfriend, AND changing clothing, dropping her belongings... that could be a good 45mins perhaps. did all those things occur after she called cab first time? perhaps! what was the time of the phone calls to bf, and txt? and cabbie?

i think, the more we repeat the actual timeline, and circumstances, it gets, more confusing? something isn't making sense, because the full story isn't known and i don't know if the timeline has the 'smoking gun' anymore.

the people(s) who are at these locations are what matter, and we don't know WHO was at her apt when she went back to change NO ONE WILL EVEN GO ON RECORD TO SAY THEY SAW HER BACK AT APT AFTER ACCIDENT, or who was at ampm, or was in those streets round' her apt at those times...

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

my last lil trip out... i said i backtracked a bit from ampm, round midnight. on 7th st east actually. its a very strange street, from 7th to roosevelt.. i remember fondly from over a decade ago, and it hadn't changed much.

woe to be to anyone who walks it late at night, it feels like night of the living dead by the 7th/ roosevelt area. a big big grass/trash/tree area by that corner on southwest side, it bummed me out over a decade ago walking home there at night, and it still is depressing and spooky.

so the theory is that she headed this way, from the wreck, prior to going home to change clothes?

ya know, IF she is that knowledgeable of the area/streets, she would prob not of headed down 7th street. she would of just gone down to university and then to ampm. and, it would make sense then that she thought to say, YA KNOW, I SHOULD GET ME A CAB AT AMPM because it would be something of a landmark in her sights. from either hardy, or university.

i just dont know why she would head down 7th street. shes got 5th street, which is actually in comparison much less desolate, and to be honest prob safer after midnight, to be near a public large park that isnt so covered in darkness, then 7th.

and university, too. the thing w university, that makes some theories make sense, is that IF she went thattta way as we theorize, if she didnt go home first after accident, is that a person could of seen her on university and followed her, as their is much much more reason to think that someone on that street was cruising for trouble early morn, than a random in the side streets.

for me, i dont see the theory of her going to ampm first, before home. someone explain why thats the on the table thoughts for now?

cheers

by pythagorian , the distance of roosevelt to uni to ampm, should be identical. if not, close

Yeah I totally agree she didn't go to AMPM first IMO - was just doing that mapping as Miss Demeanor requested.

I do think something could have happened to her when she was passing over 7th street walking south on hardy toward the AMPM. I've maintained that exactly 1 minutes walking distance North of the AMPM is 7th street and hardy.

So I agree with you that 7th street is creepy and I think unfortunately she was abducted around 7th and hardy.

Thank you!

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

11 phone calls, a txt to her guyfriend, AND changing clothing, dropping her belongings... that could be a good 45mins perhaps. did all those things occur after she called cab first time? perhaps! what was the time of the phone calls to bf, and txt? and cabbie?

i think, the more we repeat the actual timeline, and circumstances, it gets, more confusing? something isn't making sense, because the full story isn't known and i don't know if the timeline has the 'smoking gun' anymore.

the people(s) who are at these locations are what matter, and we don't know WHO was at her apt when she went back to change NO ONE WILL EVEN GO ON RECORD TO SAY THEY SAW HER BACK AT APT AFTER ACCIDENT, or who was at ampm, or was in those streets round' her apt at those times...

And this is the point of the timeline.

AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #2 - Page 28 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

She had most likely gotten to her house, changed, and attempted contacting her boyfriend (4:10am - 4:17am) BEFORE she called the cab at 4:23 am!

I can't see it taking any more than 20 minutes for her to wreck, abandon the car, and make the 5 minute walk back to her apartment from the dropped car.

If the wreck was around 3:45, I would think she would be back at her apartment by 4:05 am, especially if she "Sped" off from the scene of the wreck to the drop spot only 1 minutes driving time away as the 911 caller claimed.