AZ AZ - Adrienne Salinas, 19, Tempe , 15 June 2013 - #5

[SandSage]

Why it did what? The multi quote?

Yes. Because I didn't choose that option. #mousefail maybe. :facepalm:

 

[cluciano63]

She changed to avoid detection from witnesses/police who may have seen polka-dot blouse, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes. Because I didn't choose that option. #mousefail maybe. :facepalm:

You probably hit the multi quote button on accident.

 

[thref23]

Hey guys,

I am another local lurker ready to chime in.

First things first, I want to point out that the curve on Rio Salado, where she crashed, is not only very sharp but is also a little unsuspecting - many who have not driven on that stretch of Rio Salado would assume that Rio Salado was like every other main street that ran parallel to it - meaning very straight. If she had hit 60, she likely must have slowed down a bit before the curve or I would have expected more damage. The other implication: this crash does not by itself suggest she was drunk.

Second: Despite the above, I think you guy generally underplay the trauma which could have been caused by the prospect of a DUI. Even if you are over 21 in AZ, if you innocently clip a curb, the law allows an officer to cite you with DUI even if you are below the legal limit and show no real signs of impairment (this basically happened to an ex-roommate of mine). I could elaborate a lot more, but it comes down to: cops here are thirsty for DUIs at night, and there are immediate penalties which are not affected by whether or not you are eventually found guilty. These penalties could be quite costly and inconvenient for a 19 y/o without much money in the bank, and then there could be the issue of how your parents might react if they find out, i.e. if they are paying your way on the condition that you don't act so irresponsibly as to drive drunk or what not.

Third, with the recent info available, here are some ominous thoughts regarding the timeline. Please excuse me if I have any details wrong.

4:23 - first known contact with the cabbie. 3-4 minute phone call, it likely ends at 4:27

4:37 - the cabbie calls Adrienne. Unless he is already at the destination, this seems abnormal to me unless this call is to the extent of "I am leaving now, should be there in about 15." Maybe he was returning a call from her, but I am assuming the cabbie is on his way after the call ends. If he is near old town Scottsdale, I'd say that's a 15 minute drive that time of night (slash day). An estimated arrival time between 4:50 and 4:55 seems reasonable.

4:47 - Adrienne texts "I'm coming over." This could be 4:43 but 4:47 seems to be more common. I would be reasonable to assume that this text would coincide with when she left her apartment. I am pretty sure I have walked from 5th and Hardy to Hardy and University at least a couple times in the past. I anticipate that the intersection would be about two, maybe three minutes away from Brown and Hardy. Depending on the exact location of her apartment, I am thinking it's probably a five minute walk. As such, if she leaves her apartment at 4:47, we can expect her at University/Hardy around 4:52.

4:52 - woman who meets Adrienne's description closely enough to be mentioned in the police report, is on surveillance at the intersection of University and Hardy. If this is not her, I would say that would be a coincidence.

4:53 - Adrienne calls cabbie, or the cabbie calls her, not clear. A minute ago, her location to the west of O'Reilly's suggests she is headed west on University, by foot. By 4:53, she would have been at least near the tattoo shop next to O'Reilly's. This call doesn't make sense to me, unless one of the two parties has arrived at a decided destination, or one of them sees the other and wants confirmation regarding identity. Or, maybe she is letting cabbie know that her phone might die at any moment, but then it doesn't make sense that she would be where she was rather than at the AM/PM.

4:53-5:06 - after using her phone often for the prior 40 minutes, I am not aware of any activity from Adrienne's phone during this time. Could simply have to do with a low battery.

4:54 - dark sedan is seen cutting through the Oreilly's lot, headed north (and then east would have been the only way out of the lot). I suppose someone turning north on Hardy, from University, might cut through the lot if they had a red light. But there isn't much traffic at this time and traffic on University would have probably had a green light and if not most cars wouldn't cut through this parking lot anyways. It is however worth noting that if a vehicle was heading from the tattoo shop, cutting through the O'Reilly's lot would probably be the easiest, lowest key way of getting to the AM/PM. A cabbie might know or assume this, I assume. Despite speculation online, LE has not clarified that this vehicle was not the cabbie's cab.

4:54-5:00: sometime within this span, cabbie shows up at or by AM/PM. He is on AM/PM's surveillance at 5:00, but AM/PM shares this corner of the intersection with a strip mall. There are many parking spaces where his vehicle would not have been caught on AM/PM's surveillance. I assume he would not have arrived before 4:54 as he purportedly waited til 5:04 to call Adrienne again. I recall one prior article or video which stated that the cabbie was at AM/PM as early as 4:53.

5:00 - cabbie shows up on AM/PM's surveillance. This would be a minor coincidence - if he was not trying to do so how likely is it that he shows up at 5:00 on the dot?

5:04 - cabbie is alleged to finally call Adrienne to let her know that he is at the AM/PM waiting for her. Another coincidence - this is exactly ten minutes after the 4:54 mark in our timeline.

Purely hypothetically, if the cabbie had picked up Adrienne between 4:53 and 4:54, this could be significant, because:

1. The Chloroform Nap As seen on Charmed... A common scene in many mystery movies is the old “knock out an unsuspecting victim by holding a rag full of chloroform over their face” trick. Would this tactic work in real life? Probably not. First of all, chloroform begins to lose its effectiveness as soon as it mixes with oxygen (and some of those villains spend a long time lurking in the shadows with their rags poised). Secondly, chloroform doesn’t instantly knock a person unconscious; depending upon the victim’s size and weight, the chemical could take up to 10 minutes to subdue someone.

http://mentalfloss.com/article/12490/11-tv-and-movie-clichés-you-never-see-real-life

5:06 - Cabbie says Adrienne called and told him she'd be another minute. If nothing else, I assume this means that Adrienne was not blowing off the cabbie.

5:07 - Cabbie claims to have interpreted that literally as he didn't wait more than a minute before calling back. If I am not mistaken, he doesn't wait much longer, although he has X many minutes of phone time and X many gallons of gas invested in the call thus far, and he has no further calls to respond to.

It's ironic because I've been reading here thinking amongst other things, "these guys are too overzealous - if the cable guy is supposed to show up at 2:00, but doesn't show until 2:15, it doesn't mean he abducted someone on his way to your house, it simply means he was late." I initially didn't see the cabbie as the least bit suspicious. Now I am the guy who thinks he is the prime suspect.

 

[WideOpen]

I'm not ready to disregard the possibility that Adrienne may have been impaired by an injury suffered during her car accident. MOO.

kind of O/T but regarding an accident...

I have thought about this possibility as well because it happened to me once. We were drinking heavily.
I was a passenger in a single vehicle car accident at high speeds in the country and we hit a tree. We left the scene and I carried a heavy tool box about a 1/2 mile back to this guys house. He passed out cold. I couldnt sleep and eventually needed to wake his roommate (who I had never met) and had him take me to a hospital. In my drunkenness I knew I needed help.

Turns out I had a broken pelvis, punctured lung, broken shoulder, a hematoma. Was in the hospital a week and had lots of rehab.

The booze and shock allowed me to feel no initial pain or discomfort. I would have died had the roommate not been there.

So, I have wondered if she was injured and crawled into some place to sleep. You just get woozy and want to sleep. I think they would have found Adrienne if it was anything like my accident though.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

kind of O/T but regarding an accident...

I have thought about this possibility as well because it happened to me once. We were drinking heavily.
I was a passenger in a single vehicle car accident at high speeds in the country and we hit a tree. We left the scene and I carried a heavy tool box about a 1/2 mile back to this guys house. He passed out cold. I couldnt sleep and eventually needed to wake his roommate (who I had never met) and had him take me to a hospital. In my drunkenness I knew I needed help.

Turns out I had a broken pelvis, punctured lung, broken shoulder, a hematoma. Was in the hospital a week and had lots of rehab.

The booze and shock allowed me to feel no initial pain or discomfort. I would have died had the roommate not been there.

So, I have wondered if she was injured and crawled into some place to sleep. You just get woozy and want to sleep. I think they would have found Adrienne if it was anything like my accident though.

jmo

What about impaired judgement from a head injury? There may be no outwards signs of injury but it's there. The person suffering from it may not realize that they are affected.

That could be a factor in this case IMO.

 

[SandSage]

Hey guys,

I am another local lurker ready to chime in.

First things first, I want to point out that the curve on Rio Salado, where she crashed, is not only very sharp but is also a little unsuspecting - many who have not driven on that stretch of Rio Salado would assume that Rio Salado was like every other main street that ran parallel to it - meaning very straight. If she had hit 60, she likely must have slowed down a bit before the curve or I would have expected more damage. The other implication: this crash does not by itself suggest she was drunk.

Second: Despite the above, I think you guy generally underplay the trauma which could have been caused by the prospect of a DUI. Even if you are over 21 in AZ, if you innocently clip a curb, the law allows an officer to cite you with DUI even if you are below the legal limit and show no real signs of impairment (this basically happened to an ex-roommate of mine). I could elaborate a lot more, but it comes down to: cops here are thirsty for DUIs at night, and there are immediate penalties which are not affected by whether or not you are eventually found guilty. These penalties could be quite costly and inconvenient for a 19 y/o without much money in the bank, and then there could be the issue of how your parents might react if they find out, i.e. if they are paying your way on the condition that you don't act so irresponsibly as to drive drunk or what not.

Third, with the recent info available, here are some ominous thoughts regarding the timeline. Please excuse me if I have any details wrong.

4:23 - first known contact with the cabbie. 3-4 minute phone call, it likely ends at 4:27

4:37 - the cabbie calls Adrienne. Unless he is already at the destination, this seems abnormal to me unless this call is to the extent of "I am leaving now, should be there in about 15." Maybe he was returning a call from her, but I am assuming the cabbie is on his way after the call ends. If he is near old town Scottsdale, I'd say that's a 15 minute drive that time of night (slash day). An estimated arrival time between 4:50 and 4:55 seems reasonable.

4:47 - Adrienne texts "I'm coming over." This could be 4:43 but 4:47 seems to be more common. I would be reasonable to assume that this text would coincide with when she left her apartment. I am pretty sure I have walked from 5th and Hardy to Hardy and University at least a couple times in the past. I anticipate that the intersection would be about two, maybe three minutes away from Brown and Hardy. Depending on the exact location of her apartment, I am thinking it's probably a five minute walk. As such, if she leaves her apartment at 4:47, we can expect her at University/Hardy around 4:52.

4:52 - woman who meets Adrienne's description closely enough to be mentioned in the police report, is on surveillance at the intersection of University and Hardy. If this is not her, I would say that would be a coincidence.

4:53 - Adrienne calls cabbie, or the cabbie calls her, not clear. A minute ago, her location to the west of O'Reilly's suggests she is headed west on University, by foot. By 4:53, she would have been at least near the tattoo shop next to O'Reilly's. This call doesn't make sense to me, unless one of the two parties has arrived at a decided destination, or one of them sees the other and wants confirmation regarding identity. Or, maybe she is letting cabbie know that her phone might die at any moment, but then it doesn't make sense that she would be where she was rather than at the AM/PM.

4:53-5:06 - after using her phone often for the prior 40 minutes, I am not aware of any activity from Adrienne's phone during this time. Could simply have to do with a low battery.

4:54 - dark sedan is seen cutting through the Oreilly's lot, headed north (and then east would have been the only way out of the lot). I suppose someone turning north on Hardy, from University, might cut through the lot if they had a red light. But there isn't much traffic at this time and traffic on University would have probably had a green light and if not most cars wouldn't cut through this parking lot anyways. It is however worth noting that if a vehicle was heading from the tattoo shop, cutting through the O'Reilly's lot would probably be the easiest, lowest key way of getting to the AM/PM. A cabbie might know or assume this, I assume. Despite speculation online, LE has not clarified that this vehicle was not the cabbie's cab.

4:54-5:00: sometime within this span, cabbie shows up at or by AM/PM. He is on AM/PM's surveillance at 5:00, but AM/PM shares this corner of the intersection with a strip mall. There are many parking spaces where his vehicle would not have been caught on AM/PM's surveillance. I assume he would not have arrived before 4:54 as he purportedly waited til 5:04 to call Adrienne again. I recall one prior article or video which stated that the cabbie was at AM/PM as early as 4:53.

5:00 - cabbie shows up on AM/PM's surveillance. This would be a minor coincidence - if he was not trying to do so how likely is it that he shows up at 5:00 on the dot?

5:04 - cabbie is alleged to finally call Adrienne to let her know that he is at the AM/PM waiting for her. Another coincidence - this is exactly ten minutes after the 4:54 mark in our timeline.

Purely hypothetically, if the cabbie had picked up Adrienne between 4:53 and 4:54, this could be significant, because:

http://mentalfloss.com/article/12490/11-tv-and-movie-clichés-you-never-see-real-life

5:06 - Cabbie says Adrienne called and told him she'd be another minute. If nothing else, I assume this means that Adrienne was not blowing off the cabbie.

5:07 - Cabbie claims to have interpreted that literally as he didn't wait more than a minute before calling back. If I am not mistaken, he doesn't wait much longer, although he has X many minutes of phone time and X many gallons of gas invested in the call thus far, and he has no further calls to respond to.

It's ironic because I've been reading here thinking amongst other things, "these guys are too overzealous - if the cable guy is supposed to show up at 2:00, but doesn't show until 2:15, it doesn't mean he abducted someone on his way to your house, it simply means he was late." I initially didn't see the cabbie as the least bit suspicious. Now I am the guy who thinks he is the prime suspect.

Wow. Ref23, are you taking these times from the timeline posted here? And, it wouldn't require much chloroform (in my opinion) to take out a 110# (when soaking wet) kid who's been running around all night & is still recovering from a major, invasive surgery - especially in light of the fact that she had part of one of her lungs removed - her oxygen displacement wouldn't take as long as someone who's lung capacity was within normal range.

My head is exploding, again.

We can easily remove the cabbie from this scenario as the perpetrator and throw in someone else, random or known to her and it would still work.

Hmmmmm....

(Great post, btw!)

 

[thref23]

Wow. Ref23, are you taking these times from the timeline posted here?

From the timeline posted here, and from the HLN timeline, and just from times I believe have been mentioned here. There are small details (like the cabbie's GPS records) which could possibly throw the whole theory off - but if the cabbie is innocent I think there are quite a few coincidences here.

 

[margarita25]

Rhymes with Brojan.

:floorlaugh:

 

[SandSage]

From the timeline posted here, and from the HLN timeline, and just from times I believe have been mentioned here. There are small details (like the cabbie's GPS records) which could possibly throw the whole theory off - but if the cabbie is innocent I think there are quite a few coincidences here.

so.many.coincidences. :banghead:

The coincidental dead phone battery, for instance.

 

[margarita25]

But then, he said on the NG show he had just given her money to go shopping the day before the party. So she must have had some cash. Somewhere.

I would think if she called the cab, she had some money to pay for it (unless she was so distraught she forgot she had no money, or thought her bf would pay).

 

[SandSage]

I'm summoning Tonto. Hope he comes back tonight (I know it's late). He's got to read some of the theories posted tonight...

*thinking out loud*

 

[SandSage]

I would think if she called the cab, she had some money to pay for it (unless she was so distraught she forgot she had no money, or thought her bf would pay).

Totally possible she worked that day and had tips.

 

[margarita25]

Why call a cab without cash? Unless maybe she was planning on having the BF pay on the other end, and that is partly why she kept calling and also, finally warned him she was on the way.

I just posted the same thing, lol...I should prob catch up before posting.

 

[WideOpen]

What about impaired judgement from a head injury? There may be no outwards signs of injury but it's there. The person suffering from it may not realize that they are affected.

That could be a factor in this case IMO.

Absolutely.

A very good point because through this whole case none of us has considered that a head injury may have caused her to be "not right in the head". She could have amnesia or other trauma related mental disability.


hmmm

jmo

 

[WideOpen]

Totally possible she worked that day and had tips.

Her father stated ( will find a link if needed)
That she was looking forward to going back to work after the valley fever.

I think she had not been working.

jmo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I would think if she called the cab, she had some money to pay for it (unless she was so distraught she forgot she had no money, or thought her bf would pay).

So your saying that Adrienne may or may not have had money on her when she called for the cab?

 

[2Hip2BSquare]

It could be possible that Tom turned around and headed back to AMPM after leaving at 5:00:28 because at 5:03 and or 5:04, he connected with her by phone and she said she was on her way? Perhaps this is where his 5:05 response of "almost there" comes into play. And I know this was mentioned earlier, but is there a place in view of a camera just to the side of the entrance where he could have been parked and waiting???

Where on earth is this report coming from that Tom said he would be there in a minute at 5:05 am? I thought he called her at 5:05 with no answer and then she called him back at 5:06 to say she was one minute away? (then her phone was off by 5:07)

This new info is confusing me that the cab supposedly now said he was the one who was almost there? I thought AS said she was the one almost there in 1 minute as he had been waiting?

Confused now.

 

[margarita25]

i'm not sure why i didn't think about this before.. could she have injured herself when she hit the curb? if she was going as fast as the witness says and was able to pop 2 tires... i'd think her tiny little self might have bobbed around a little bit (either side to side or onto the steering wheel).. possibly hitting her head. this could have clouded her judgement that night.. either just a little bit or a lot. and that could explain why some of her actions made no sense, and she might have been more willing to take aid from someone who offered it.

This was one of the first things that popped in my mind when Adrienne first disappeared...

 

[SandSage]

Her father stated ( will find a link if needed)
That she was looking forward to going back to work after the valley fever.

I think she had not been working.

jmo

Okay, I understood she had received the okay to return and was working, again.