AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #441
I did note that in the witness testimony it said that Gabriel was wearing a backpack. Was he wearing one when found? It seems a bit unclear if he was or not.

If not, it would lend credence to the idea of things being taken from his body after death.

By the same note, if a self defence arguement can be made in this instance, I don't think it nessesarially has to be hard and fast that Gabriel was the one carrying a gun if others in the group potentially were.

Ahh found something

D.R.R. testified that he and Cuen-Buitimea, whom he called a friend, had paid a guide for passage across the border on Jan. 30 and were heading to Phoenix. He also said neither of them was carrying a weapon, and the guide had left them. Cuen-Buitimea was wearing a green camouflage backpack as well as a bag on his belt.

When his body was discovered he did not have any firearms or a backpack, but he did have a radio and tactical boots, the court filing says. The cause of death appeared to be a single gunshot wound and “it appeared that the body was fresh,” meaning he had likely died recently.

Well isn't that interesting. That at least suggests that someone removed items from the body. Doesn't much make sense for Kelly to do it, nor does it line up with a scene where all other parties kept running until they hit the boarder.
This is very interesting and the defense can run with it. There is no possible way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a gun wasn't taken along with the backpack.

Witness testimony, according to your post, shows his backpack was stolen and that means if he had a gun it was stolen.

Not sure how much this will help the defense but it does prove that the victim could have been armed and for the prosecution to say he wasn't armed (before he was shot) is pure speculation on their part.
 
  • #442
Iirc about 3 hours passed from his first call, until LE was alerted to the killing. He could have been in a lot of places other t
I believe the border patrol came out immediately after the first call, searched and found no one. Everyone had scattered at that point, and there was no indication that someone had been shot and was laying dead wherever it was he was found. The land was searched at that time. Later that evening as mr kelly walked his property he found mr cuen-buitimea And called border patrol again.

I guess the time of death and ballistics will tell the story here.
 
  • #443
@Telltale

Would you post a link to this Memorandum? I would like to add it to my bookmarks, thanks.
I don't have the full document, the screenshot was from the Daily Mail story. Here I don't know if it can be found in full anywhere.

How do you use the bookmark feature? It would save me a lot of scrolling.
 
  • #444
I do t have the full document, the screenshot was from the Daily Mail story. Here I don't know if it can be found in full anywhere.

How do you use the bookmark feature? It would save me a lot of scrolling.
Thanks.

When you click on the icon to bring up your history you should see the word "bookmarks" come up. Click on it and you can see it say "add bookmark."

It will also say "pin to my favorites"

You can click on "favorites" which goes into a separate bookmark "favorite file."
 
  • #445
I think ballistics in this case is going to tell a lot of the story. Do we know if that information is available?
 
  • #446
I think ballistics in this case is going to tell a lot of the story. Do we know if that information is available?
I've only seen this little piece of information.
The autopsy report found that the bullet entered Buitimea’s body from the back lower right portion of his ribcage and exited from his left upper chest area, according to testimony from Jorge Ainza, the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Department detective who arrested Kelly.
What do you think of the bullets trajectory? Entered in the lower back right side. Exited upper chest left side.
 
  • #447
This is very interesting and the defense can run with it. There is no possible way to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a gun wasn't taken along with the backpack.

Witness testimony, according to your post, shows his backpack was stolen and that means if he had a gun it was stolen.

Not sure how much this will help the defense but it does prove that the victim could have been armed and for the prosecution to say he wasn't armed (before he was shot) is pure speculation on their part.
So an ak47 would fit in a backpack? Just before I went to walk my dog Beanie, people were posting that Kelly said that the victim had a big backpack and an ak47. Will the defense ignore what their own client said and now run with another (still imaginary) gun being hidden in the backpack?

Don't forget that Kelly had all the time he could wish for to dispose of a backpack, but the other guys were on the run for their lives. We still don't know how many women and children were along.

What would it matter what he was wearing? He is the victim.
 
  • #448
So an ak47 would fit in a backpack? Just before I went to walk my dog Beanie, people were posting that Kelly said that the victim had a big backpack and an ak47. Will the defense ignore what their own client said and now run with another (still imaginary) gun being hidden in the backpack?

Don't forget that Kelly had all the time he could wish for to dispose of a backpack, but the other guys were on the run for their lives. We still don't know how many women and children were along.

What would it matter what he was wearing? He is the victim.
My post was simply about the fact that the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim wasn't armed. I never said an AK47, it could be any type of gun.

Once it was established through testimony that items were stolen from him, all bets are off, other things could have been stolen as well.

This doesn't necessarily help the defense but it can't hurt them either.
 
  • #449
Prosecution's witnesses have entered statements that items were removed from the crime scene? Yeah that definitely opens up reasonable doubt.

Also, poster is arguing the absurd but there are AK-47s that will fit in a backpack.
 

Attachments

  • 24255076_10155843273674882_782495202007691447_o.jpg
    24255076_10155843273674882_782495202007691447_o.jpg
    83 KB · Views: 5
  • #450
The prosecution witness hasn't said the backpack was removed, just that he was wearing it. The body wasn't found with the backpack on it. Kelly could also have removed it, though I struggle for an explanation as to why he would

As for the bullet trajectory being it seems, steeply angled up through the body... There is probably plenty of explanations involving geography or positioning, though I am leaning somewhat towards a ricochet off the ground from Kelly shooting towards the men's feet. Not aiming to hit them perhaps, but far more reckless and culpable than simply shooting into he air, so worth lying about to attending LE.

There is also potential explanations involving an armed running group of men letting off an accidental shot, or even the single shot reported by Kelly that this whole sh*show off. However Kelly accidentally hitting him, legally justified or not, still seems the most likely based on the information we have presently.
 
  • #451
Here's a statement made by D.R.R. who was allegedly with C-B when he was shot.
The man said he believed he heard 15 or 16 shots fired as the group ran. A sheriff’s deputy testified that investigators recovered nine shell casings near Kelly’s south-facing back porch.
So Mr Kelly fired 9 rounds and someone else fired around 6 or seven rounds. JMO.

 
  • #452
I've only seen this little piece of information.

What do you think of the bullets trajectory? Entered in the lower back right side. Exited upper chest left side.
Hmmm, so we don't know if they recovered the bullet? that is too bad. As for the angle, that is strange.
 
  • #453
I have a problem with the suggestion that the people with the victim remained next to him, while under gunfire that seemed to them as though they were being hunted, to recover any (so far imaginary) rifle.

If we accept imaginary rifles, then we could start theorizing that the accused murderer over the roughly 3 hours, went around picking up his casings, leaving just those 9 by his porch for le to find. Or that more than one shooter was in the ranch house. See? Once we start just inventing things it's wide open to any accusations for both sides.
If they were the ones shooting him then yes they would remain to retrieve the weapon as well as any backpack and the contents.
 
  • #454
Here's a statement made by D.R.R. who was allegedly with C-B when he was shot.

So Mr Kelly fired 9 rounds and someone else fired around 6 or seven rounds. JMO.

I don't think that's all that strong tbh. It's a ballpark figure and not that far off, I doubt the witness was in the frame of mind to be counting shots as he ran away from gunfire.

It could also be argued that Kelly moved, or wasn't always shooting from the same position which could explain discrepancies in witness testimony.

Edit
I am sure I've read something specific about the bullet not being found, but here are a few mentions.

Larkin said officials have not determined the type of gun used to shoot the victim or his time of death.

The defense attorney added that it remains unknown what kind of bullet caused the fatal wound, what was the time of death, how long the body had been there or where and what position the person was in prior to receiving the fatal wounds
 
Last edited:
  • #455
My post was simply about the fact that the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim wasn't armed. I never said an AK47, it could be any type of gun.

Once it was established through testimony that items were stolen from him, all bets are off, other things could have been stolen as well.

This doesn't necessarily help the defense but it can't hurt them either.

You make good points, and I'm not sure why the questions you are being asked are so rigid.

If you grab the backpack, you get to take whatever it has in it. If you are there, you also can grab whatever is not in it. We don't know what was in it beforehand, and since it can carry additional items, we don't know what might have been added. At the same time, you can take and carry items NOT in the backpack without putting them in the backpack-- ie, an AK-47 could be carried in one hand (or slung over the shoulder, if there's a strap) and a backpack carried in the other (or worn on the back).

I can understand this easily. I have to think others who are objective and looking for truth can as well.

The FACT is, things were certainly taken. We don't know what they were. But it certainly opens the door for a gun to have been in the dead guy's possession (as Kelly says), and then taken away by one of the other invaders that day.
 
  • #456
Hmmm, so we don't know if they recovered the bullet? that is too bad. As for the angle, that is strange.
I am pretty sure there is no bullet. It was through and through and not found at the crime scene. I will try and find the quote to back that up.
 
  • #457
Hmmm, so we don't know if they recovered the bullet? that is too bad. As for the angle, that is strange.
So far it looks like they haven't found the bullet.

The angle has me wondering if someone walking/running behind the victim stumbled and accidentally fired at an angle that would fit with the bullets trajectory. JMO.
 
  • #458
I don't think that's all that strong tbh. It's a ballpark figure and not that far off, I doubt the witness was in the frame of mind to be counting shots as he ran away from gunfire.

It could also be argued that Kelly moved, or wasn't always shooting from the same position which could explain discrepancies in witness testimony.
So the witness's testimony could be off and it's possible that Mr Kelly fired more than nine shots and LE didn't find the shell casings. Thanks. JMO.
 
  • #459
My post was simply about the fact that the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the victim wasn't armed. I never said an AK47, it could be any type of gun.

Once it was established through testimony that items were stolen from him, all bets are off, other things could have been stolen as well.

This doesn't necessarily help the defense but it can't hurt them either.
I'd have to roll my eyes, as a court watcher if the defense said

1. The victim had a backpack that someone took.

And
2. It could have had a gun it it.

Sorry, that would be pathetic for the defense, but then I do think he will get off and become a folk hero like those Nevada Bundys. Even though Kelly seems like a basically decent guy, now that I know he is a biologist and ex natural resources professional like myself, that is not easy. But that's how the media will portray him, he stood his ground against the cartel shootouts!

i do realize that you were kind of speaking for the defense and not necessarily saying you believed it.

is this the same defense atty who compared this shot in the back at 100 meters murder with the Alec Baldwin accident?
 
Last edited:
  • #460
If they recover fresh shell casings that don't match up with the accused's rifle that'll be something.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
128
Guests online
2,857
Total visitors
2,985

Forum statistics

Threads
632,673
Messages
18,630,232
Members
243,245
Latest member
St33l
Back
Top