AZ - Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea, allegedly shot and killed with an AK-47 by rancher George Alan Kelly, 75, Kino Springs, Jan 2023

[rsd1200]

Yeah, I was surpised too, in Arizona that they would arrest him and charge him so quickly. I do think the rancher did it. I think he did it accidentally, but it was reckless and he is culpable. IMO. They called him a danger to society, and I would bet that this wasn't the first time that he "shot over the heads" of immigrants.

It was not the first time. T

Multiple U.S. Border Patrol sources told NewsNation that Kelly had a reputation among the smugglers as someone who fires his rifle off when undocumented individuals are on his property.


Nogales is in the Tucson sector, which is leading the nation in gotaways, and Kelly’s ranch sits on what the U.S. Border Patrol said is a major narcotics route. It’s an area notorious for extremely aggressive and violent smugglers.

“That has been a tough area to work for many, many years; the cartel operating in that area has had a propensity for violence,” Scott said (Scott, a former Border Patrol chief)


He said he’s experienced the dangers firsthand.

Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting

 

[NeverPersonal]

bbm

Danger to society? Does Mr. Kelly have a criminal history in Arizona or any other state?

(The deceased has a Federal record.)

unfair statement imo, deceased has a record of crossing the border likely to get others across. imo.
you seem to be clearly on the side of kelly - do you think it's protecting your property when a man is shot and dead around 150 yards away from your property? and no weapon(s) were found anywhere in the area besides kelly's own...

 

[NeverPersonal]

why, if he was so bad, did he call BP onto his property the second time? he called- they found nothing. why not just leave the body? don't find it. don't move it. If he really murdered the guy, I do not see why he called BP. IMO.

seems pretty well-known that he did in fact murder this guy, one way or another.
keep in mind he was NOT found on kelly's property but 150 yards away with a bullet in his BACK. imo

 

[Telltale]

seems pretty well-known that he did in fact murder this guy, one way or another.
keep in mind he was NOT found on kelly's property but 150 yards away with a bullet in his BACK. imo

80-150 yards away from Kelly's house, very much on his property which is nearly 170 acres.

150 yards away is a long way in a suburb, it is a hell of a lot closer in 170 acres of empty desert IMO.

 

[NuttMegg]

K's property is outlined in the googleearth. D.R.R. testified that he and Gabriel Cuen-Butimea, 48, the Mexican man killed on K's ranch, had paid for passage across the border from Nogales, Mexico, and were heading to Phoenix. ( Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting )

Nogales, Mexico to Phoenix, AZ
View attachment 405884

Where Mr and Mrs K live, is on, or is very close to, one of the most dangerous areas on the border. It appears that Mr. K. had fenced the area around his immediate homeplace and garage.

Map of Home and Garrage from GoogleEarth:

View attachment 405879

Photos of Ranch: VERMILION MOUNTAIN RANCH



I'm not making a statement for or against anything being built/constructed, just providing data about the area. I do find it odd that Agent Terry and the deceased in this case, GCB, were shot in a similar fashion.








Good site for photos and info of region: The Wall – Interactive map exploring U.S.-Mexico border

Thanks rsd1200! So appreciated when maps are posted. I don't think we can tell where the pasture is?

That road is the one that Sra. Castillo drives at all hours of the day, she has never seen anything wrong.

She said they see immigrants frequently in town but it is a peaceful area. 10 year resident of K springs. (DM report posted here about 30 times). So she apparently drives right by his house.

Pros witness said they were right by "the road" anyone know where the body was found in relation to the map?

 

[NuttMegg]

why, if he was so bad, did he call BP onto his property the second time? he called- they found nothing. why not just leave the body? don't find it. don't move it. If he really murdered the guy, I do not see why he called BP. IMO.

Iirc Kelly was saying the people were by his house. Probably at that time he didn't tell bp that they were so far away, meaning I can see why bp missed the body if the victim had already been shot. Kelly, imo, would have been emphasizing how close to his house they were, to cover himself.

Big mystery when the victim was killed, Kelly's reports of "returning fire", "shooting over heads" etc span 2-3 hours. I don't buy the "rival drug cartel" shootout for a minute. No traffickers would have drawn attention to themselves and stayed for hours, right by town.

Bp said the body was fresh.

 

[NuttMegg]

bbm

Danger to society? Does Mr. Kelly have a criminal history in Arizona or any other state?

(The deceased has a Federal record.)

Do you have some records to prove that the victim's deportation 6-7 years ago (2016 federal record) was tied to trafficking, violence, or any misdeed other than being caught in the USA?

Later I will post some of Kelly's published opinions on immigrants. Someone else posted a few days ago, but time to repeat I guess.

 

[Longtime_lurker2019]

As a lifelong border resident and current az border corridor resident, many of you have lots of thoughts that are not remotely our experience. I leave water out intentionally. My well has a spigot. People passing through are not immediate threats. They're other humans. Are we armed? Heck ya. But we've only been burglarized by people with names like methany and Billy.

 

[Soulmagent]

some commenters have said this area is dangerous because of the border

Rising crime in dangerous Mexico border town ... - Fox News​

https://www.foxnews.com › politics › crime-caused-in-me...




Jan 27, 2022 — Sonora, the state where Nogales is located, is considered one of the most dangerous places in Mexico. Violent crime increased 46.4% in 2020, ...

But it is small:

Kino Springs​

Census-designated place in Arizona


Kino Springs is a census-designated place in Santa Cruz County, Arizona, United States. The population was 136 at the 2010 census. Wikipedia

and other people say itis quiet and they never feel unsafe

Residents speak out after shooting in Nogales neighborhood

Neighbors speak out after shooting in Santa Cruz County

www.kold.com

so which is it?

I think it possible to have a situation where both of these things can be true. The good guys feel safe ,or the bad guys feel safe. IMOO, The winners write the history.

 

[NuttMegg]

Know what is really sad?

Everyone loses here.
1) Kelly frequently shoots over the heads of migrants, this time that bravado backfired.
2) Now, the defense, news outlets and online chatter will portray his property, right next to a town, as being an extremely violent patch of land featuring rival cartels, mid day shootouts, and bands of people brandishing, and shooting AK 47s at the rancher on his patio. Although at least one long time local resident says it's a peaceful area.
3) the sad part, other than a man losing his life, is that Kelly is done for, re the value of the property. He will no longer be land rich, after already lowering the selling price to $1,750,000, who will now buy his land? Scratch a zero off that price, and he can waste his golden years lashing out with lawsuits blaming others for his poorly thought out investment.
4) by the time the trial comes around, the defense will present in court the robust Kelly on an IV, O2 and with a walker. ( I'm older than him, no age bashing from this poster, am referring to recent antics we've seen in courts).
5). He will most likely become a target and will be frightened for the rest of his life. Don't forget, he is also damaging the economy of the town, and of other touristic ventures, and there's the cartels and friends of the victim.

A guy who has solid nature creds, a guy who is probably the most interesting person in any gathering with tales of Montana, trout fishing the best stream in the USA, and undoubtedly grizzly bear lore is now seen only at the ends of the spectrum....a joke vs a hero, erasing all he's really been. Imo

But for some bizarre reason he headed for the warmer climate to set up a grandiose tourist plan right by the border when it was already dangerous. Per the document posted here earlier re his tourism plans, he was supposed to built 5 more satellite tourist accommodations like the gorgeous place he now lives in, on his land. Horseback riding, astronomy, hiking. Now, he basically hides out in an enclave, a small fenced area around his house and barn. Gaining a reputation for shooting above the heads of passersby.

Everyone loses.

Imo

 

[Deleted member 39678]

As a lifelong border resident and current az border corridor resident, many of you have lots of thoughts that are not remotely our experience. I leave water out intentionally. My well has a spigot. People passing through are not immediate threats. They're other humans. Are we armed? Heck ya. But we've only been burglarized by people with names like methany and Billy.

Looks like you are lucky to live in a relatively safe part of the nearly 2,000 mile border. JMO.

Mexico–United States border - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[FLmom777]

seems pretty well-known that he did in fact murder this guy, one way or another.
keep in mind he was NOT found on kelly's property but 150 yards away with a bullet in his BACK. imo

It was on his property. His property is very large.

 

[shotgun09]

Something I thought of with regards to one of the illegal immigrants/ witnesses who was with GCB, and stated per testimony last Friday. Per LE, he was caught and detained on Feb 8th for 'smuggling'. And, only then did he state he was present on Jan 30, as a witness. What my question is, Why would you return to an area, illegally mind you... if you were so fearful of 'being hunted" ?
More things that make you go hmmm.
MOO

 

[NuttMegg]

Something I thought of with regards to one of the illegal immigrants/ witnesses who was with GCB, and stated per testimony last Friday. Per LE, he was caught and detained on Feb 8th for 'smuggling'. And, only then did he state he was present on Jan 30, as a witness. What my question is, Why would you return to an area, illegally mind you... if you were so fearful of 'being hunted" ?
More things that make you go hmmm.
MOO

His account of "feeling like he was being hunted" referred to that day, 30 January. Have you seen accounts that he said that earier, or that his previous detainment was on Kelly's land?

 

[Soulmagent]

Looks like you are lucky to live in a relatively safe part of the nearly 2,000 mile border. JMO.

Mexico–United States border - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I guess the idea is to leave a trail of water and pray the criminals pass quietly by , onto the next
possible victim so ,you can claim the method made the area safer? There is no reason to worry?
Mark your self hospital or not. On the other hand maybe the stakes are higher and your advisories need more than a jug of water ,and are facing dire obstacles.

 

[NuttMegg]

I suspect that this topic is one of the items the prosecuting attorney was referring to when she said she was not presenting all evidence at that hearing. Imo

"Multiple U.S. Border Patrol sources told NewsNation that Kelly had a reputation among the smugglers as someone who fires his rifle off when undocumented individuals are on his property."

Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting

One of the victims told the state that he had crossed the border six or seven times prior to this attempt on Jan 30, when the shooting took place.

www.newsnationnow.com

 

[shotgun09]

His account of "feeling like he was being hunted" referred to that day, 30 January. Have you seen accounts that he said that earier, or that his previous detainment was on Kelly's land?

I agree with you, his account of Jan 30 referred to that day. I have no facts regarding any previous detainment, only the one that FOLLOWED the frightening and hunted experience...on Feb 8th.

 

[shotgun09]

I suspect that this topic is one of the items the prosecuting attorney was referring to when she said she was not presenting all evidence at that hearing. Imo

"Multiple U.S. Border Patrol sources told NewsNation that Kelly had a reputation among the smugglers as someone who fires his rifle off when undocumented individuals are on his property."

Arizona rancher’s charge reduced; migrant recounts shooting

One of the victims told the state that he had crossed the border six or seven times prior to this attempt on Jan 30, when the shooting took place.

www.newsnationnow.com

It's almost as if there is a cause and effect scenario?

 

[NuttMegg]

I agree with you, his account of Jan 30 referred to that day. I have no facts regarding any previous detainment, only the one that FOLLOWED the frightening and hunted experience...on Feb 8th.

The Feb 8 event was on Kelly's land? That's where he specifically said he felt like he was being hunted, iirc, with someone hunting him from nearby bushes.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Something I thought of with regards to one of the illegal immigrants/ witnesses who was with GCB, and stated per testimony last Friday. Per LE, he was caught and detained on Feb 8th for 'smuggling'. And, only then did he state he was present on Jan 30, as a witness. What my question is, Why would you return to an area, illegally mind you... if you were so fearful of 'being hunted" ?
More things that make you go hmmm.
MOO

"Being hunted" is a very loaded term. I wouldn't be surprised if he was coached to say it.

If you are running across the border, you are always trying to do so without being caught. Because you know BP may catch you. Rather than focus on the behavior of those breaching U.S. sovereignty as criminals, they are turned into refugees who are hunted, according to our own government in this case IMO.

The law is the law. Semantics are semantics. Where the two meet is conflict. Doesn't have to be that way. But it is.

Anyone trespassing on another's land for any reason - the most noble to the most sinister - is still a trespasser.

Trying to approach this incident without bias is challenging for both sides of the litigation. But officers of the law must try very hard. The prosecution needs to seek truth, not make a U.S. citizen a symbol of something hated - an oppressor.

It's just wrong. Adjudicate the facts. Let guilt or innocence follow from that.

JMHO