AZ - Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6, Tucson, 20 April 2012 - #16

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  • #321
I haven't seen that mentioned here myself, but i'm glad to read now that it has indeed been discussed. I haven't been able to figure out how that video could have been taken the night after her abduction, with those 5 people just casually strolling through command central and then the guy lurking off to the side without anyone noticing. So thank you thank you thank you for mentioning that it has been discussed here. I'm sure it's not a big deal, or really anything that should bother me, but when they announced the video footage was from the night of April 21st/morning of April 22nd it really made no sense to me at all, just like the Saturday Morning garbage pick up makes no sense to me. All JMO of course.

There are about 3 pages of posts on the subject in thread 8 around page 30

oh and lol the garbage pick up bothered me too, but the commercial properties all around their house have dumpsters that are picked up
 
  • #322
Theory:

CPS visited the family in December. Investigating something that turned out to be un-provable about the father and his treatment of Isa, but serious enough that a person close to them who adored Isa decided she had to be removed for her own safety.

This person takes Isa, figuring either the mother didn't act to protect her or would not even with a divorce be able to keep Isa away from the dad. This abduction happened with or without the mother's knowledge, but maybe the mother has figured this out and this explains her calm Mother's Day appearance when she/her sons look forward to being together as a family, with Isa (no mention of Sergio). It could also somewhat explain Sergio's demeanor on the phone; he thinks it's a joke or something over which he will scold his wife ("I told her to get her butt home") and maybe his reluctance to call 911 in the first place (Becky would have insisted he did, which leads me to think she didn't know the abduction was going to happen). It also explains their reluctance to talk to the media and their "we want to keep this about Isa."

So, the question becomes: Who knew about the allegations that resulted in the first CPS visit?

Of course, part of the reason I like this scenario so much is it leaves open a possibility that Isa is alive and not being hurt.
 
  • #323
I wish they would give us more info so we dont have to throw these crazy scenerios around... Urrrr

I agree, although in some ways I kind of hope Isa was taken by the gun cartel because that might mean she is still alive (and living in Mexico or something). If her parents did something to make her disappear then I can't think of many scenarios in which she would still be alive.
 
  • #324
Yes, that is exactly what I meant. I think one or both boys heard or saw something that happened in the house. I DO NOT think the boys were involved in any way with Isabel's disappearance.

I am wondering the same thing. I am thinking that either they saw something or that SC has involved them in activities that may put them in danger and therefore they were taken away from him.
 
  • #325
:welcome:


No, I didn't read anything about the "Hink Meter Forum". Maybe you can tell us what you learned...
Another thing I remembered was the girl talked alot about the scanners that morning. And what she heard. I will try to find more about that today. Maybe she had posted it somewhere else too other then the "hinky meter."
 
  • #326
If I had a family member, besides one that was elderly or something, that person could surely sleep on the couch instead of me giving up my daughters room and making her sleep with one of her brothers, if that is indeed how it happened.

Without looking for the floorplan..i seem to recall it being a 4 bedroom house. I could very well be wrong of course. So if the boys are sharing a room and parents are sharing a room and Isa has a room there's still 1 left. If the boys don't share a room and each child has their own, then bunk the boys together. Obviously i don't have any info on this, and the other bedrooms could easily be a den, exercise room, sewing room, etc..just my own thoughts as to why Isabel shouldn't need to leave her room for JM staying at the house. ALL JMO!
 
  • #327
Thanks for linking AZlawyers post.

So I am wondering if the other complaint may have been about neglecting one of the children...letting them do something dangerous and not stopping them.

And if that was the case back in December with Isa now being kidnapped under Sergio's watch (although I do think she was gone from the home much earlier when Becky was still inside the home) could CPS think he is a danger to his children by not taking care of them as he should?

imo

I don't see that. If someone broke in while everyone slept it's not one parent's fault.
There is no requirement that parents must stay awake at night to make sure that no one abducts their children and even if it was neglectful to sleep and not hear a thing Rebecca did that as much as Sergio did. Even if there was a case for lack of supervision and allowing dangerous pastimes before it would be hard to add Isabel's disappearance into the same mix because apparently she wasn't doing anything more dangerous than sleeping in her room when she was abducted.

If there was inadequate supervision by Sergio it wouldn't make a no-contact agreement necessary imo, why couldn't he continue to call his kids or live with them on the understanding that he wasn't to be alone in charge of them, or just agree to have some parenting classes to be able to mend his ways etc.?
 
  • #328
The owner closed the page for personal reasons. I found a blog post (from a member of the page) and the owner commented under it about her reasons for doing so.
Someone else (sorry I forgot the name) wrote about it in the Sierra Lamar thread and confirmed it.
I was very surprised to see the page suddenly gone!
Looks like it won't be back.

What a shame. She had one of the more readable blogs.
 
  • #329
Thanks for linking AZlawyers post.

So I am wondering if the other complaint may have been about neglecting one of the children...letting them do something dangerous and not stopping them.

And if that was the case back in December with Isa now being kidnapped under Sergio's watch (although I do think she was gone from the home much earlier when Becky was still inside the home) could CPS think he is a danger to his children by not taking care of them as he should?

imo

Somewhere in this discussion, the question did come up.
The example used was a minor caught with drugs-would the parents be considered neglectful. The answer was yes in SOME states.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE FOR AZ AND I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.

Not yelling at you OBE or anyone! Just that I cannot 'bold' on this device!
 
  • #330
"The earlier case, we are aware of that," Pacheco said. "I don't know if they were open or closed, but there were previous CPS contacts."

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/cri...9a3-5df6-a4f1-163f280fad8f.html#ixzz1v8LzldHT

very confusing. the use of "case" indicating one and then in the same sentence the speaker discusses not knowing if "they" were open or closed indicating cases plural.

As to the cartel theorizing. I just don't see it yet. If Isa was taken in an effort to control SG then I would think the very last thing he would want is LE involvement. That would put Isa further at risk for harm. I have been turning this theory round and examining it from all angles for a few days now and it is just not setting for me.

A "case" could comprise 2 or more charges. JMO.:twocents:
 
  • #331
Somewhere in this discussion, the question did come up.
The example used was a minor caught with drugs-would the parents be considered neglectful. The answer was yes in SOME states.

I DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS TRUE FOR AZ AND I AM NOT SAYING THIS HAPPENED IN THIS CASE.

Not yelling at you OBE or anyone! Just that I cannot 'bold' on this device!

Can you use the square brackets? In that case you can bold by writing the code inside them.

[ B ] write the bolded stuff here [ / B ]

Remove the spaces inside the square brackets and that should work
 
  • #332
That is very ironic that UNCLE Justin moved out the same month cps came to their house.
 
  • #333
Thanks for linking AZlawyers post.

So I am wondering if the other complaint may have been about neglecting one of the children...letting them do something dangerous and not stopping them.

And if that was the case back in December with Isa now being kidnapped under Sergio's watch (although I do think she was gone from the home much earlier when Becky was still inside the home) could CPS think he is a danger to his children by not taking care of them as he should?

imo

I doubt this is the case. JMO
 
  • #334
No, I am afraid I never personally saw that MSM link. But I do believe it was yesterday. Only conjecture on my part, though. I'm sure someone will be along with a link.

It seemed to be about a week ago and it came up during a press conference. I think it was presented as part of a list of things LE was doing and all the angles they were pursuing.
 
  • #335
Another thing I remembered was the girl talked alot about the scanners that morning. And what she heard. I will try to find more about that today. Maybe she had posted it somewhere else too other then the "hinky meter."

Please do not take this the wrong way, but I *think* I know what you are talking about, and this person also said that the reason the scanner dispatcher said "complainant will actually be the sister" was because a nun from the nearby church was the one who called 911. So I take everything she said with a huge boulder of salt.

I apologize if I am remembering the wrong person, but that was a comment on the hinky site I remember, and it was suppossedly from a local with insider scoop (it was also before the actual scanner chatter was released). JMO
 
  • #336
  • #337
Wonder if Justin was kicked out?
 
  • #338
We've discussed all of SC' s public records in the first few threads of this case.

The only things that are pending in SC's case are the two charges for dogs not licensed, not vaccinated, and two of them running loose.
I am not sure why the 2007 speeding ticket still shows as pending, an error probably.
The terminated are from 1997 (DUI) and a 1998 traffic stop.
He had another ticket in 2005.

He has nothing on public record that really relates to a child missing IMO
 
  • #339
This is a long post about a personal experience I had with CPS in a different state, skip it if you're not interested, I will tie it in w this case at the end.

Not something I love to share because of the stigma, but.. When my daughters were 1 and 3 I went to work outside of the home for the first time since their birth. I chose a small private Christian daycare close to my office, even though we are not Christian, I thought it was a clean and safe and close spot for my girls to be 5hrs a day.
We speak Spanish at home, and in my circle of friends and family, we teach Spanish at home until the kids are around 3, then introduce English, and let most of their English come from preschool. It makes for a harder first month or two at preschool, but the kids are always caught up by kindergarten. I know some may not like that, but it keeps them bilingual and now I have 2 honor students so it worked for me, too.
I asked the manager at the daycare if they have any Spanish speaking staff, because it might be comforting to my one yr old, and she said "this is America..." i wrote it off because that still didn't affect the safety of my kids, but it rubbed me wrong. A week later, the same manager spoke with me about her concerns that we didn't go to church. I was nice about it and explained our religious beliefs ( nothing creepy, trust me). Next week I get a call from CPS that they VISITED MY DAUGHTERS IN DAYCARE AND DID A PRELIMINARY EXAM and see no immediate concern, but must follow up with a home visit.
So I was freaking out for 2 days and utterly confused, then the CPS lady came over. I don't know if she was supposed to tell me this, but she told me that the complaint was from the daycare and was for "neglect." My kids are and were well fed, clean, never missed a dr. Appointment, loved, pampered, spoiled, adored. I have tons of family that dotes on them, they had closets full of new and clean clothes, I am an OCD cleaner, fully stocked fridge...it was crazy. The CPS lady said that she could tell that the reasons given for the complaint seemed baseless, and that she was sorry she had to even come to my house, but it was protocol. I understood that, I was not mad at her, she was doing her job and her job is a very important one that hopefully saves kids from bad situations. I learned that when they visited my girls at daycare, they checked my girls "clothes, hair, and diaper area on the baby". Yes, diaper area, and the complaint was not even about sexual abuse, it was about me not teaching them English or taking them to church. I was not even mad, I was just confused and ashamed that I had CPS in my house. The lady was nice to me, she actually said that I take great care of my kids and that the visit was a big waste of her time, the case would be closed with no further reviews needed, but she also told me that by law the review and results would remain on file forever.
For the next six years or so, I was so scared of people randomly calling CPS on me. Terrified. I went overboard making sure they were always well dressed and well mannered and didn't even raise my voice to them in public when they probably deserved it a time or two. Because in my mind, if they came once, then if they were called again I could lose them. I know that is not the way it legally works, but any fear of losing my kids or being accused of being a bad mom paralyzed me with fear.
Nothing else has ever happened, and as they have grown, I think of it less and less. But once they went to public school, I made sure to get to know their teachers so they would know that I am a good and involved parent, I made sure if they went to grandmas and she took them somewhere that she brushed and braided their hair first, because I was terrified of having another 'incident' . My point is, in my case, the fact that someone filed a baseless CPS report against me hovered over me like a dark cloud for years. And it seems that IMO, if they had been called in the Celis family for a reason that was not serious or not factual, Becky, as a mom, might have reacted similarly. It's not like you just call all your friends and tell them CPS came over to look in your house, it is embarrassing and painful. if you are an innocent mother in that situation, it's almost like IMO you would try to overcompensate afterwards. It was my nightmare that if something ever happened to my kids, I would lose them or have people assume I was at fault. When my daughter was 8, she tripped over her shoes that she had left on the landing between our stair cases, fell about 4 steps, and broke her arm. The whole way to the hospital, I was thinking they were going to take her away from me because of that old report and because falling down the stairs is so cliche for covering abuse. Of course, they didn't, but my point is, a false accusation is awful for an innocent mommy.

Because of my personal experience, I am not judging the December case until I have learned more. What if (total speculation) the school called CPS because a teacher was concerned that Isa came to school sleepy because the parents let her stay late at her teen brother's week night games, and that particular teacher saw that as bad for her? Some teachers are wonderful and save lives, some call for stupid reasons. If the Celis family's December CPS issue was trivial and baseless, and Isa was abducted by a stranger, I couldn't imagine feeling more sorry for Becky, because now she has been labeled as a bad or suspicious parent in the eyes of the public . We all see things differently based on our own life experience, and this news just makes me want to sit back and learn more before passing any judgement.

If anyone actually read all that, sorry for the mini novel.
 
  • #340
There has been no source cited that has JM ever living in the Celis home.
 
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