AZ-Pandora Kjolsrud, 18 and Evan Clark, 17-Found shot to death in Maricopa County -May 27, 2025

[Cryptic]

what is a choke point?

A limit?

"Choke Point" is a term used by military and transportation industries to describe:

- a relatively small area that large numbers of enemy soldiers must pass through to continue an attack.

- a relatively small area that large numbers of say, trucks, trains, or aircraft must pass through to get to their final destinations.

Ideally controlling (military) or adequately managing (business) the choke point gives the military commander or business manager effective control over the much larger area.

I was using the term "choke point" in an electronic sense to describe a possible situation where:

- Cell phone reception and cell phone towers thin out. But.... due to the limited number of roads in the area, a large number of people entering the National forest will pass by tower "T" and their phones will ping on it.

Thus..... Tower "T" serves as a sort of electronic choke point: Most people entering the National Forest need to take road "R". This causes most visitors to pass by cell phone tower "T". Sometimes, with military or business two choke points exist. Say: Some other forest visitors use road "R2" and hit tower T-2.

Ideally, cell phone towers "T" and "T-2" then hold the cellular data about most of the visitors who entered the forest that day. As a side, note, the term 'National' Forest does not always mean "woodsy".

 

[otto]

I do not think at this time it's because of that. It's not every case you see multiple agencies create a task force for a homicide, nor do you see the FBI match a large sum, $75,000, for information leading to an arrest(s) so quickly. The task force does not include the sheriff's office investigating the murders of Pandora and Evan.

Murder investigations are based on jurisdiction, so two murder scenes within 30 miles may not be in the same jurisdiction. Two different Sheriff offices investigating two different murder scenes does not mean there is no collaboration, or that one investigation would be transferred to another Sheriff's office.

If the FBI is not involved due to the Indigenous status of Pike, why is the FBI involved?

Mount Ord is 50 miles to Globe. Pike was found 20 miles North of Globe. That means roughly 30 miles between the two murder scenes.

Google Maps

 

[otto]

According to Pike's roommate, she ran-away from the group home and was hitch-hiking to see a male friend or family. Hitchhiking is what opens the possibility that she was picked up by an opportunistic predator. At this time, it's also possible that the camping teens were murdered by a predator.

"She said Pike left the home in late January because she wanted to visit a boy she met while taking guitar lessons. ... “I feel like she just ran away, and she was trying to hitchhike back to her reservation to see her parents, and she just got picked up by the wrong person,” Chelsea said."

Former roommate describes what happened before Emily Pike’s Mesa disappearance

New details shed light on what happened inside a Mesa group home from which 14-year-old Emily Pike ran from before her dismembered remains were discovered on a rural forest road 100 miles away.

www.azfamily.com

 

[legomonster]

Murder investigations are based on jurisdiction, so two murder scenes within 30 miles may not be in the same jurisdiction. Two different Sheriff offices investigating two different murder scenes does not mean there is no collaboration, or that one investigation would be transferred to another Sheriff's office.

If the FBI is not involved due to the Indigenous status of Pike, why is the FBI involved?

Mount Ord is 50 miles to Globe. Pike was found 20 miles North of Globe. That means roughly 30 miles between the two murder scenes.

View attachment 593875
Google Maps

Diana Vicari, 19, is an unsolved murder in Tuscon, Arizona and only her arms were found in a dumpster, they never found her body, so, if you want to pull up all teenage murders and this one also is a disfigurement but like I said previously I don’t believe at this time any of these 3 unsolved homicides are related.

The FBI is involved because it's a far more complicated matter that required faster ways to get warrants for data, better laboratory testing, and much more resources to investigate than a local sheriff's office. It's a very, very complicated case.

 

[Knox]

Diana Vicari, 19, is an unsolved murder in Tuscon, Arizona and only her arms were found in a dumpster, they never found her body, so, if you want to pull up all teenage murders and this one also is a disfigurement but like I said previously I don’t believe at this time any of these 3 unsolved homicides are related.

The FBI is involved because it's a far more complicated matter that required faster ways to get warrants for data, better laboratory testing, and much more resources to investigate than a local sheriff's office.

I agree with your opinion, none of the cases are related.

Wish there was some sort of update.

 

[LadyL]

"Choke Point" is a term used by military and transportation industries to describe:

- a relatively small area that large numbers of enemy soldiers must pass through to continue an attack.

- a relatively small area that large numbers of say, trucks, trains, or aircraft must pass through to get to their final destinations.

Ideally controlling (military) or adequately managing (business) the choke point gives the military commander or business manager effective control over the much larger area.

I was using the term "choke point" in an electronic sense to describe a possible situation where:

- Cell phone reception and cell phone towers thin out. But.... due to the limited number of roads in the area, a large number of people entering the National forest will pass by tower "T" and their phones will ping on it.

Thus..... Tower "T" serves as a sort of electronic choke point: Most people entering the National Forest need to take road "R". This causes most visitors to pass by cell phone tower "T". Sometimes, with military or business two choke points exist. Say: Some other forest visitors use road "R2" and hit tower T-2.

Ideally, cell phone towers "T" and "T-2" then hold the cellular data about most of the visitors who entered the forest that day. As a side, note, the term 'National' Forest does not always mean "woodsy".

thank you
your posts are always brilliant
you should get verified as an expert JMO

 

[otto]

"Pandora Kjolsrud, 18, and Evan Clark, 17, were found dead while camping in the morning hours of Tuesday, May 27, near State Route 87 in the Mount Ord area of the Tonto National Forest. Arizona’s Family learned on Tuesday that their bodies were found in a different location from their vehicle."

MCSO renews calls for help after 2 Phoenix teens found dead in forest

The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office is renewing its call for the public’s help after two teens were found shot to death in a remote area of eastern Maricopa County late last month.

www.azfamily.com

 

[Cryptic]

thank you
your posts are always brilliant
you should get verified as an expert JMO

Thanks, and I really appreciate the compliment. I"ll do my best to live up to it.

 

[Knox]

“We know what the crime scene tells us, and that’s kind of information again, that we really don’t want to make public because the individual out there or individuals that have done this, they know that information,” Sheridan said.

“At this time, the circumstances surrounding their deaths are being treated as suspicious,” Sgt. Enriquez said.

MCSO renews calls for help after 2 Phoenix teens found dead in forest

The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office is renewing its call for the public’s help after two teens were found shot to death in a remote area of eastern Maricopa County late last month.

www.azfamily.com

 

[Knox]

"Pandora Kjolsrud, 18, and Evan Clark, 17, were found dead while camping in the morning hours of Tuesday, May 27, near State Route 87 in the Mount Ord area of the Tonto National Forest. Arizona’s Family learned on Tuesday that their bodies were found in a different location from their vehicle."

MCSO renews calls for help after 2 Phoenix teens found dead in forest

The Maricopa County Sheriff’s Office is renewing its call for the public’s help after two teens were found shot to death in a remote area of eastern Maricopa County late last month.

www.azfamily.com

Interesting detail. Were they out hiking or abducted from their vehicle location?

Still noting there have been no details regarding whether or not they had a camp set up.

Discouraging to know leads/tips are drying up and that those which were received, led nowhere.

 

[Cryptic]

Do we think this was a targeted hit (doubtful as both young people seemed to not have enemies) , or that Evan and Pandora inadvertently saw something they shouldn't have ?
Imo.

Some enemies might not fly large flags, but rather could be seething in silence over a "stolen GF".

That a side, there could be several suspect types:

- Marijuana growers with Cartel ambitions: As @otto points out, however, the area does not seem conducive to marijuana grows.

- Drug fogged 'n Inceling through life squatter err... "long term camper": Not unheard of in National Forests where camping rules are more lax. Motive seems possible. Rangers probably know of long term stay types and hopefully have records on any past harassment etc.

- Jilted Lover: Possible, but assailant would need to know they were there and be able to find them. People tend to commit crimes in areas where they feel comfortable. Thus more chance of a "Stabbed during Altercation in Locker Room" type head line for a stolen GF motive.

- Random attack by thrill killer visitor (possibly Incel aggravated): Seems horribly likely.

- Other out door motive: Taking claimed hunting spot, committing hunting / fishing faux pas, taking claimed fishing spot etc. All are possible- but area does not seem to have an "ultimate duck hunting", "Elk Hunt of a life time", nor "Fly fishing dream" reputation that could generate hostility over minor affronts, lead to intimidation etc. Also, not hunting season, so motive seems to decline further.

 

[otto]

Interesting detail. Were they out hiking or abducted from their vehicle location?

Still noting there have been no details regarding whether or not they had a camp set up.

Discouraging to know leads/tips are drying up and that those which were received, led nowhere.

That one small detail of whether or not they had set up camp narrows down the timeline from the three day weekend to the day that they arrived. When looking for suspects, a shorter timeline, if possible, helps people understand whether investigators are looking for someone who was absent during the entire weekend, or only one day - and if so, which day.

Bodies in a different location than vehicle is specific, and does not say a different location from where they were camping. It does not say that they were found together, although I would assume they were found near each other. This suggests sexual predator, although that has not be stated.

 

[Cryptic]

When looking for suspects, a shorter timeline, if possible, helps people understand whether investigators are looking for someone who was absent during the entire weekend, or only one day - and if so, which day.

That is a very good observation and would cover most people entering the forest.

It looks like the murders occurred during the week after Memorial Day weekend and not during the weekend itself. Hopefully, this reduces the number of visitors to screen.

The only exception in coverage that I can think of would be if the perpetrator is an "extended stay" type mid to long term camper.

I would what other possible loose "choke points" could net in the day and week end visitors. Maybe a gas station (and hopefully associated cameras) that serves as a "Last chance for gas, snacks and beer- all at inflated prices" before the remote forest roads?