AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote

Being a good parents is not a safety zone

May I please ask you are you a parent?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Which makes the placement of the belt on the stairs even more curious to me. Was the boy expecting more spankings and this time with a belt? What do we know about the spankings the night before? Were they with an open hand or an object?

I have no clue but they must not have left any bruises whatsoever. LE learned this very early and the bruises, if any, would have still been there to the naked eye. When they found out about the spanking I am sure they checked the boy like they do in other cases. They said the very next day that they would be investigating to see if there was any abuse in the case. Even 5 days after the murders, both the DA and the boy's own defense attorney, said they had uncovered no abuse.

I don't know if the belt has any relevancy at all. Clothes and other items were strewn all around that home. It could have been dropped there and they didn't even realize it if they took some clothes upstairs. I have no clue who the belt even belonged to all I know Vincent had Carhartt overalls on the day he died and a belt is not worn with overalls. Imo, VR came into his home, shut the door because it was in the 50s and proceeded up the stairs to his bedroom to take all of his construction gear off for the day and he never made it.

I have not heard any mention of the belt even being an issue in this case.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Quote

Being a good parents is not a safety zone

May I please ask you are you a parent?

Yes, I am. I have five wonderful children (grown now) and have 10 beautiful grandchildren and one adorable great grandchild.

Why do you ask?

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Quote
Even 5 days after the murders, both the DA and the boy's own defense attorney, said they had uncovered no abuse.

That was 5 days after the murder.Not now.More people have been spoken too.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Thankyou very much for answering me.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Quote
Even 5 days after the murders, both the DA and the boy's own defense attorney, said they had uncovered no abuse.

That was 5 days after the murder.Not now.More people have been spoken too.

People were spoken to the very night it happened.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

They have talked and have recieved more information from people.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They have talked and have recieved more information from people.

I am sure that is true, however no witness or person is obligated to speak with LE or the defense if they desire not to do so.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I think more people and the people that have already talked gave more information to the police.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I have no clue but they must not have left any bruises whatsoever. LE learned this very early and the bruises, if any, would have still been there to the naked eye. When they found out about the spanking I am sure they checked the boy like they do in other cases. They said the very next day that they would be investigating to see if there was any abuse in the case. Even 5 days after the murders, both the DA and the boy's own defense attorney, said they had uncovered no abuse.

I don't know if the belt has any relevancy at all. Clothes and other items were strewn all around that home. It could have been dropped there and they didn't even realize it if they took some clothes upstairs. I have no clue who the belt even belonged to all I know Vincent had Carhartt overalls on the day he died and a belt is not worn with overalls. Imo, VR came into his home, shut the door because it was in the 50s and proceeded up the stairs to his bedroom to take all of his construction gear off for the day and he never made it.

I have not heard any mention of the belt even being an issue in this case.

imoo

You don't have to leave bruises if the threat of abuse is present. He could have easily been threatening to use the belt on him and it be considered abuse. He didn't actually have to hit him. Mental abuse is sometimes worse than physical abuse. If he was returning home from work, it is possible he had told the child to do things that did not get done and he was expecting the worst from his father.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

I agree.He could have even used this belt the night before.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Ok,I have to go Nancy Grace is on.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You don't have to leave bruises if the threat of abuse is present. He could have easily been threatening to use the belt on him and it be considered abuse. He didn't actually have to hit him. Mental abuse is sometimes worse than physical abuse. If he was returning home from work, it is possible he had told the child to do things that did not get done and he was expecting the worst from his father.

That seems a little far fetched to me, SS and certainly no motive to murder two people! I wouldn't think an abuser would just threaten. If they were an abuser they would just do it but there is no evidence that this father was an abuser of any sort. From what has been said, even by the biological mother, he and his father went everywhere together. Most abusers don't hang out with the abused child. They isolate them from friends (which this boy had) and suppress them. They don't think enough of the child to support them in much of anything. This boy seemed to be doted on. He got to go hunting, fishing, play soccer, football, play video games and even had a ATV.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree.He could have even used this belt the night before.

I thought he said that Tiffany gave him the 5 swats.......not his dad.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

What did she use?Doesn't mean a belt was never used to hit this little boy.We don't know.An abuser always threatens.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

What did she use?Doesn't mean a belt was never used to hit this little boy.We don't know.An abuser always threatens.

An abuser doesn't have to threaten and when they abuse they carry it out...not talk about it.

imoo

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Have you been abused?Do you know this?An abuser always threatens and intimidates.

 

[Shock]

Here's the police report, in case you haven't read it.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/12/04/20081204stjohns1204.html

 

[mostlylurking]

That seems a little far fetched to me, SS and certainly no motive to murder two people! I wouldn't think an abuser would just threaten. If they were an abuser they would just do it but there is no evidence that this father was an abuser of any sort. From what has been said, even by the biological mother, he and his father went everywhere together. Most abusers don't hang out with the abused child. They isolate them from friends (which this boy had) and suppress them. They don't think enough of the child to support them in much of anything. This boy seemed to be doted on. He got to go hunting, fishing, play soccer, football, play video games and even had a ATV.

imoo

First, OBE, sorry I offened yesterday or whatever day it was. I am really torn on this whole case & I did tend to take it out on you when I finally let go and ranted. That wasn't really my intention & I am sorry.

Second, I have to disagree on your comments about abusers. We were very doted on in other people's eyes growing up. We had a home made 2 story treehouse, got piano lessons and had little mini motor cycles. Took skiing vacations, flew in a rented private plane to get there & got bear hugs that could squeeze the breath out of you when things had gone well. But when a belt wasn't handy & a water hose was, it got used on us. Not a single neighbor would have known. We were all in fear of not doing well in school, so not a single teacher would have known. My mother stood back & watched and she worked for the DHS in that city, CPS would not have known. When we did act up, we were told wait til you father gets home & I remember cowering in a corner as the belt was coming off and not a single family member would have known. And when I was raped at 10, I didn't tell my parents because I truly believed I would be beat over it & not a single person knew until I was in my 20s.

Abuse happens all the time. Verbal, physical and emotional. It leaves no outward marks many times. And not a single person knows -- except the one it is happening to & they don't feel safe to tell anyone.

There is a gag order in place & it has been for a very long time now. At this point if anyone has given testimony or deposition regarding any kind of abuse, none of us would know about it at this point. It can not be assumed that it was not present.

Nothing can be assumed about this case at this point and virtually everything that has been discussed since the beginning of November is all supposition, speculation and personal opinion, imo.

 

[colette]

Here's the police report, in case you haven't read it.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2008/12/04/20081204stjohns1204.html

That link is just talk about the therapist and who the boy can talk to that will or won't testify in court, no police report.