AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Shock]

I agree.I said before why would he go towards someone shooting him.Stupid is as stupid does.[/QUOTE]

Really? Do you realize just how close it was to the porch and his truck?

Do you know where he was struck first, which shot hit first and where he was each time? Do you know where he was when he was struck in the chest and then struck again in the chest? Do you know how far that may have been from the porch?

Do you know that there is a possibility that he had made it within a few feet of the porch before he was first struck in the chest and may have went down on one knee and was hit again and stumbled forward and collapsed onto the porch to have his head riddled with lead? Imo, he was not in a fleeing posture when shot in the chest. He was gravely wounded and was unable to flee and only able to stumble and pitch forward.

I thought you said you wanted to wait for all the information?

For none of us know any of these things at this time and it makes all the difference in the world. But the firearm re-construction experts and forensic firearm experts will know every minute detail.

imoo

He was most likely hit in the arm first to cause the 'trickle of blood' from the truck to where he fell.

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree.I said before why would he go towards someone shooting him.Stupid is as stupid does.[/QUOTE]

Really? Do you realize just how close it was to the porch and his truck?

Do you know where he was struck first, which shot hit first and where he was each time? Do you know where he was when he was struck in the chest and then struck again in the chest? Do you know how far that may have been from the porch?

Do you know that there is a possibility that he had made it within a few feet of the porch before he was first struck in the chest and may have went down on one knee and was hit again and stumbled forward and collapsed onto the porch to have his head riddled with lead? Imo, he was not in a fleeing posture when shot in the chest. He was gravely wounded and was unable to flee and only able to stumble and pitch forward.

I thought you said you wanted to wait for all the information?

For none of us know any of these things at this time and it makes all the difference in the world. But the firearm re-construction experts and forensic firearm experts will know every minute detail.

imoo

OBE, she just stated her opinion as many of us do. This post is just a little on the harsh side. Perhaps taking a breath is a good thing?

 

[MeoW333]

I just got back from the holiday and this thread has grown into #2!

Seems there was some abuse going on, the grandparents were evidently aware of it. So much catching up for me to do..
Statistically almost all of the children who have committed parricide have been abused (the other percentage just sociopaths; older children whose parent's didn't like their boyfriends etc).

This is an 8 year old child, IMO his lack of emotion towards killing his father and Mr. Romans proves that he was abused. Even when he saw his stepmother he cried and hugged her.

The truth starts to come out after awhile. For the paternal grandparents to say:

"After several minutes," the report continues, "(the grandmother) shouted out in an angry and loud tone, 'I knew this would happen. They were too hard on (the boy). I knew (he) did it. He spent the night in my bed cuddling up to me. I had a feeling he did it. If any 8-year-old boy is capable of doing this, it's (him).' "

"The grandfather then repeated, "If any 8-year-old was capable of doing this, (he) was."

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2008/11/27/20081127stjohns1127.html

It seems like the boy had to put on a "tough demeanor" (lack of a better term) around his father; maybe his father didn't like him to show emotions. In articles he has been emotive around female members of his family, such as his grandmother, step mother, bio mom. His dad maybe wanted to "toughen up" his son; the boy in turn had to act "macho" around his father. That would explain why the father went against everyone's advice and gave the boy a gun. He had to consult a priest. His paternal grandparents saw it coming; his step mother wanted him to get a BB gun. His father still gave him a real gun anyway.. obviously the boy shouldn't have had access to any guns whatsoever.

There could have been scenarios when the child just wanted affection and his father brushed him off and maybe called him derogatory names such as "". Young children need nurturing at that age and they need a lot of affection. The difference between how the boy acts with different sexes is there. He reaches out for affection from female relatives.

For the boy to make comments like:

"Another police report, filed a day later, says the boy asked to see a court security officer's phone while awaiting a hearing. "He then said, 'My lawyer has a phone like that, and my dad had one, too. But he's not going to need it. He's not coming back.' "
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2008/11/27/20081127stjohns1127.html

..it just shows that he's numbed himself towards his abusers. That takes a lot of abuse for someone to due that towards a parent and for an 8 year old to murder his father and their roomer; both grown men..


I would also like to hear more about Mr. Roman's pending divorce and drug dealing..

 

[MeoW333]

I agree.I said before why would he go towards someone shooting him.Stupid is as stupid does.[/QUOTE]

Really? Do you realize just how close it was to the porch and his truck?

Do you know where he was struck first, which shot hit first and where he was each time? Do you know where he was when he was struck in the chest and then struck again in the chest? Do you know how far that may have been from the porch?

Do you know that there is a possibility that he had made it within a few feet of the porch before he was first struck in the chest and may have went down on one knee and was hit again and stumbled forward and collapsed onto the porch to have his head riddled with lead? Imo, he was not in a fleeing posture when shot in the chest. He was gravely wounded and was unable to flee and only able to stumble and pitch forward.

I thought you said you wanted to wait for all the information?

For none of us know any of these things at this time and it makes all the difference in the world. But the firearm re-construction experts and forensic firearm experts will know every minute detail.

imoo

OBE you are still so quick to find a lot of guilt in the boy.
I've seen no empathy from you towards him whatsoever; since the start of thread #1 on this. Maybe a breather is a good idea for you. You're getting to worked up..

 

[Shelby77]

I'm getting the sense that the ONLY thing we are allowed to assume is
the boy is a sociopath who needs to be locked away for life for killing his completely unabusing and loving father and innocent bystander for nothing more than getting 5 swats over homework that was always being forgotten. And that he had a loving and warm relationship w/ his stepmother, and his bio-mom is inept. We can only assume he had a wonderful family that filled his life w/ sunshine and love. LOL. Go figure.


Yes, a little bit of information here sure could make all the difference in the world.

 

[twinkiesmom]

"Another police report, filed a day later, says the boy asked to see a court security officer's phone while awaiting a hearing. "He then said, 'My lawyer has a phone like that, and my dad had one, too. But he's not going to need it. He's not coming back.' "
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/2008/11/27/20081127stjohns1127.html

..

I see this as an age-appropriate response from a concrete-thinking child.

 

[MeoW333]

If children live in fear natural preservation leads them.

This is so true a statement..

 

[Shock]

A little snake grows into a big snake.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The door was open when police arrived on the scene. Mr. Romans head was stopping it from being closed. If Mr. Roman opened the door it means that all six shots he suffered were fired after he opened the door. From a single shot rifle?????????

http://apps.supremecourt.az.gov/docs/default.aspx Page 11 of transcript.

I shortened up what was said. The actual transcripted words can be found at the link above.

Debbie Mickels testifies.

A. The door is a security screen door.

Q. Which way does the door open?

A. Outward

A. It would be moving outward TOWARD the body.********************************

He was found on the front side of the metal door and not between the inside of the screen door and the main door.

imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

A little snake grows into a big snake.

Meaning?????? Sorry, Shock. To random a post....

 

[Shock]

Yes, the door opens outward (it has to, in order for the main door to open inward as all entrance doors are designed). Read further. See the photos. The security door was open.

 

[southcitymom]

OBE you are still so quick to find a lot of guilt in the boy.
I've seen no empathy from you towards him whatsoever; since the start of thread #1 on this. Maybe a breather is a good idea for you. You're getting to worked up..

I respectfully disagree. OBE's very rational posts are going a long way towards making this an even-handed discussion. I pray she takes no breather!

 

[Shock]

Meaning?????? Sorry, Shock. To random a post....

Meaning nothing. Just thought I'd give the opposition some fodder.

 

[azmama]

Even the defense attorney is contemplating the plea offer.

Not so...I have read too that the defense lawyer was waiting for the forensics reports before making any decisions on a Plea deal.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

OBE you are still so quick to find a lot of guilt in the boy.
I've seen no empathy from you towards him whatsoever; since the start of thread #1 on this. Maybe a breather is a good idea for you. You're getting to worked up..

LOL, I am not worked up, as you say, far from it. I look at a case without emotions for the defendant in every case and this is what I am doing in this one. I don't really care what age this boy is but I certainly do think he did the crime. What his sentence or punishment will be is up to a Judge but I am not going to pretend I think he is just some precious little innocent misunderstood angel when there is nothing showing that is even close to the truth. I will readily admit I do not have empathy for those who I think are guilty of murder times two.

But thanks for your concern anyway. This is just another case to me like hundreds before that have been discussed on message boards.

If anyone believes he is innocent, then so be it, that is their entitled right to have that opinion but I am not one of them that shares that opinion but I too am entitled to have my own opinion even if others disagree.

I am sure if I were one of the ones who have totally supported him from day one you wouldn't think I needed to take a breather.

 

[MeoW333]

Well I am glad that I do not try to interpret other posters, that I don't even know. Much less make comments about what I may observe about them personally.

This case is not about posters and their observations of other posters.

Now, back on topic. There is absolutely nothing out there that dissuades me from forming my held opinion about this boy and with a month getting ready to rollover, the DA still believes there is too as he goes forward with the case. Even the defense attorney is contemplating the plea offer.

imoo

From thread #1 on this, OBE, post #124

According to you i have offended you and all the hunting families out there when i was sticking up for hunting families (the % of whose children do not grow up to be killers).

This seems to be a hot issue for you regarding the fact that the boy was from a "hunting family".

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, the door opens outward (it has to, in order for the main door to open inward as all entrance doors are designed). Read further. See the photos. The security door was open.

Yes, it was and it was opened OUTWARD TOWARD the body of TRs who lay on the porch. He was not between the screen door and the main door when found.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Even the defense attorney is contemplating the plea offer.

Not so...I have read too that the defense lawyer was waiting for the forensics reports before making any decisions on a Plea deal.

Why would he have to wait on any forensic reports if he believes 100% that his client is innocent?

imoo

 

[MeoW333]

LOL, I am not worked up, as you say, far from it. I look at a case without emotions for the defendant in every case and this is what I am doing in this one. I don't really care what age this boy is but I certainly do think he did the crime. What his sentence or punishment will be is up to a Judge but I am not going to pretend I think he is just some precious little innocent misunderstood angel when there is nothing showing that is even close to the truth. I will readily admit I do not have empathy for those who I think are guilty of murder times two.

But thanks for your concern anyway. This is just another case to me like hundreds before that have been discussed on message boards.

If anyone believes he is innocent, then so be it, that is their entitled right to have that opinion but I am not one of them that shares that opinion but I too am entitled to have my own opinion even if others disagree.

I am sure if I were one of the ones who have totally supported him from day one you wouldn't think I needed to take a breather.

LOL i took a breather (vacation to visit family for the holiday) :crazy: and a break from the computer.
We need to look at all angles of this; not just the boy may be a sociopath angle. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle we are not privy to yet; nor may we ever be.
More is starting to come out about his background such as the paternal grandparents talking; Tim Roman's background.. many things about the case are puzzling.
I would like to know more about the other daughter Vincent has..

 

[oceanblueeyes]

From thread #1 on this, OBE, post #124




According to you i have offended you and all the hunting families out there when i was sticking up for hunting families (the % of whose children do not grow up to be killers).

This seems to be a hot issue for you regarding the fact that the boy was from a "hunting family".

No it doesn't and I never said YOU offended me but it did offend me highly that some seem to think because young children are taught to hunt early they will become murderers of human beings.

imoo