AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #2

[Shock]

Ok.Thankyou.This officer in the transcrits also says when he was asked did you check his pulse.He said no.I felt his leg and it was warm.I'm thinking he couldn't have been dead that long.Would his head turn darker that soon?

Don't know. But an EMT should have checked both men right away, made a determination, then proceeded to a hospital where they could have been deemed DOA. Even if the men were dead at the scene. This little town is in trouble. Big time. Legally, from several angles. The ambulance chasers are standing in line for this one.

 

[chiperoni]

Can we get back to bullets and bodies? The essence of the case.
Seems like I'm arguing with myself. In slow motion.

Bullets and bodies are important Shock, and I LOVE that you are taking care of forensics. You and Ocean Blue Eyes are fascinating but I must admit I get cross-eyed after awhile A judge or jury will want to know about circumstances, child development, mental health reports and just plain human frailty. If you don't mind me saying so striations and positions of bodies are important but the essence of the case is this child. Forensics is the essence if we discover that little boy did not shoot his rifle. So I'm stepping aside so you can go fast-motion. On Guard.

 

[Salem]

There were five drops of blood between the truck and where Mr. Roman collapsed.

Am I understanding correctly? Mr. Romans walked from his car, after being hit with a bullet, towards the direction the bullet came from?

Salem

 

[Salem]

It looks like a very large dog create. I have one like it.

Did they have dogs? What was it used for? Does anyone know?

Salem

 

[Shock]

If he was hit then, yes.
The cage was for the boy's boxer puppy.

 

[Salem]

I think the argument is that Mr. Romans was shot from the front porch causing the sound to be unmuffled and allowing the neighbors to hear them. I'm with you, though, the indoor shots should have been heard from the truck parked outside the front door. It also brings into question why Mr. Romans walked into the gunfire (a blood trail was found from the truck to where he fell [about 24' they say]).

Yes, yes, yes! Why? Would you not duck for cover until you figured out what was happening - especially after you took a hit? I'm not getting this?

Salem

 

[Salem]

Thanks for all the answers guys - I'm trying to catch up and am going through the posts backwards. Hope I'm not annoying anyone.

Salem

 

[Shock]

Bullets and bodies are important Shock, and I LOVE that you are taking care of forensics. You and Ocean Blue Eyes are fascinating but I must admit I get cross-eyed after awhile A judge or jury will want to know about circumstances, child development, mental health reports and just plain human frailty. If you don't mind me saying so striations and positions of bodies are important but the essence of the case is this child. Forensics is the essence if we discover that little boy did not shoot his rifle. So I'm stepping aside so you can go fast-motion. On Guard.

Thanks! I've raised two daughters, two son in laws, and helped raise six grandkids (one grandson is eight, and his dad is a cop). I must admit that I don't know a damn thing about the psychology of any of them. You may be right that this case comes down to that (mental health). Guess I'm just looking at the mechanics of the killings and how it happened. Hope there is room enough for both of us on this blog!

 

[Shock]

Thanks for all the answers guys - I'm trying to catch up and am going through the posts backwards. Hope I'm not annoying anyone.

Salem

Not at all. Welcome to the conversation. It's a bit slow moving, though.

 

[Salem]

It is odd that if the boy wanted his dad dead, if in fact he did, that he would shoot, if he did, Mr. Romans. An 8 year old wanting to do away with a witness seems a stretch. Where's the motive?

I agree and if the boy shot his dad in the house, then Romans did not see him.... so the boy could have lied and said someone else did it and ran out the back door. It doesn't sound as if lieing is a new thing for this child. So why did the boy shoot him?

Salem

 

[Salem]

SHL is an old school term. Don't know where it originated, but I've heard it all my life. It refers to guys standing around in a rest room, smoking area, bar, water cooler, or anywhere really, trying to convince the group that they know more about a particular issue (often the law) than anyone else in attendance.
Thus the term 'S... House Lawyer'. Probably started in a jail house latrine somewhere. Talking about their cases.
I've been one for 57 years.

And I was thinking it was short for Sherlocks :crazy: Hahahaha

Salem

 

[Shock]

Mr. Roman was found a few feet from the front door. The boy could not have shot him twice in the chest and once in the arm with his single shot .22 before Mr. Roman collapsed. Mr. Romans was shot once in the arm, twice in the chest and three times in the back of the head, sustaining eight wounds. If the boy shot him it was after the first injuries, like he said in the video. The only motive for the 'mercy killing' is the one given on the same video. It's the best the local PD can come up with. Seems weak, doesn't it?

 

[Salem]

She had joint custody right?She would have never had joint custody if she was a unfit mother.Physical custody is just living with the parent.But they both have joint custody and equal rights in the decision making of thier child.As I was told by our attorney's joint custody leaves it open for us to agree and discuss about the welfare of our children.I have joint and physical custody of 3 of my children.my little girl wanted to be with me.My 8 year old son asked me if he could live with his father and I said yes.I honored what my little boy wanted.But I do miss very much him not being with me all the time.

suzanne

Good for you for honoring your son's wishes. I'm sure that is difficult for all involved.

My comment was not to this mom specifically, but "in general." I don't know this biomom's story. Could be she was just young and when her and the dad split she had no means to take care of the boy so the dad took primary custody. Then when biomom managed to get her feet under her, she came back to ask for the primary custody, dad said no and they ended up in court. I am just speculating here, I have no idea what happened. Divorce is hard for all involved.

One of the articles regarding the gag order said the judge did not want this case to have repurcussions on the "ongoing custody" case. I took that to mean that mom and dad were in the middle of a court battle. And, based on that, I wonder, right along with some of the rest of you, what biomom's part in this is. She would not be the first mother to sacrifice her child in such a manner (IF she had anything to do with this at all). Again - this is all speculation on my part.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Mr. Roman was found a few feet from the front door. The boy could not have shot him twice in the chest and once in the arm with his single shot .22 before Mr. Roman collapsed. Mr. Romans was shot once in the arm, twice in the chest and three times in the back of the head, sustaining eight wounds. If the boy shot him it was after the first injuries, like he said in the video. The only motive for the 'mercy killing' is the one given on the same video. It's the best the local PD can come up with. Seems weak, doesn't it?

Yes, it seems weak. The biggest question being "why was there a need for a mercy killing?" What did the boy think he was seeing. I did not watch the entire video of the boy's "confession."

You have looked at the picture of the .22. Can you tell if it is an auto reload or what ever you call it? I am not a gun woman myself.

Salem

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Hi
Thankyou,I miss my son.I think I remember reading someone else found and was dicussing what looked like a body in the picture being found in front of the house on another board.If you all get the picture blown up please show it ok?

suzanne

 

[Shock]

It's an extremely slow weapon, by today's standards, requiring at LEAST six seconds, by a right handed expert, to use proficiently. It is a chipmonk, or cricket, .22 single action (load, aim, fire, bolt back, reload, bolt forward, firing pin rod pulled back, aim, and fire) rifle that weights 2.5 pounds and is 30" long. Certainly not the weapon of choice for a killer.

 

[colette]

I think when Mr Roman was first shot, maybe he thought it was an accident. Like the boy was playing around with his gun and accidentally fired at him. He may have started towards the kid, saying "hey you just hit me" or something like that.
THIS FACT ALONE....that Mr Roman moved towards the shooter, makes it most likely that the boy was the shooter. Then as the boy shot off more rounds he stumbled forward and died. I say Mr Roman, like many of you kind posters thought no 8 year old kid would kill him.

 

[Salem]

Okay - the kid was a hunter, knew that if you shot an animal it died. Hopefully, he was taught that if you shot an animal, you used it for food. So he would have known that if he shot a person, the person would die.

It sounds like, from the placement of the bullets, that who ever shot these two men, wanted them dead. Why would the kid not call 911 rather than "ending their suffering" so to speak?

Do you think TR walked into the line of fire because he saw it was the kid and he did think he could overtake the boy? Maybe thinking the boy was not shooting to kill but just to scare him for some reason? Was TR the kind of man that might have laughed or teased a young boy for getting a spanking? Or was he maybe the kind of man that would not tolerate elaborate stories from a kid and would call the kid on them?

Where did we get the info that the kid was a compulsive liar? I did not see that in any of the links. Then, if it is true, why would not a compulsively lieing kid ever get in trouble at school? That doesn't make sense to me.

Okay, I think that is the last of my 20 questions for now. This case appears to be pretty complex. I'm confused by the description of the bullets hits for both men. They were shot and at least knocked off their feet and then shot again in the head to ensure they were down for good. This is almost execution type killing and it perplexes me that a child of 8 years could carry out such a plan.

Salem

 

[Salem]

Your point is well taken Colette. I am having a hard time absorbing this, especially the finishing shots. I think you are right that Mr. Romans probably did not think the child really meant to shoot him.

Salem

 

[Bobbisangel]

Ok,I looked at the transcripts a little bit.The police officer stated the body just had a Jack--had a heavy jacket:carhartt.It didn't state the color of the jacket there.He also stated the body was dark complected skin.

Why would he be outside with nothing on but a jacket? I'm sure he had on his jeans and shirt...underwear if he wears them and his shoes and socks. The two men had just gotten home from work and they were probably still both dressed in their work clothes. The dad was headed upstairs...probably to change and Tim hadn't even gone into the house yet.