AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #3

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  • #721
Wasn't there a bullet still in the chamber? If there was, why didn't the kid go ahead and fire that one too? Why stop after 10? Or could another .22 have been used and the round that was still in the chamber was left from an outing some time ago?
 
  • #722
Oh, one more question. VR was shot in the back apparently as he was going up the stairs. Someone had to have been behind him. I think after the shot in the back he was shot in the head. The shooter would have had to have been at the top of the stairs then wouldn't they? If it was solely the boy who killed him, how did he manage to get past VR on the stairs to shoot him again in the head?

The ME said that two of the shots to Romero came from below him. IMO that was the shots to the elbow and to the back. The shots to the head were done when he was already down and helpless. The shooter then climbed the stairs were his head lay and shot him in the head, imo. One shot may have been from at least 2.5 feet away as a precautionary measure so that VR would not try to get up and the fatal and final shot was fired with the barrel very close to the head of Romero, imo.

There had to be ample room for the shooter to get by Romero's body, if you believe the boy, when he said he sat by his dad for 30 minutes.


IMOO
 
  • #723
I agree, he would have spilled his guts long ago.

Like Big John said "MAYBE" he didn't act alone. He does think he was there when it happened. That has not changed.

I think it is normal to question this. Like he said people are not ready to believe that an 8 year old is capable of do something like this. He never emphatically says though, that he doesn't think the boy did this. It is only "maybes" or "might have" coming from Big John.

It seems someone from IS is feeding the Romans family trying to sway them. What he doesn't realize just because someone on a message board may say they are in police work, doesn't prove that they are or that they are even good at what they do or have any particular expertise in this field. That is the scary thing imo and it confuses the issues.

The families need to let the evidence continue to come out and look at what LE has to prove this case and does prove. If they don't produce it and I think they will, then the families can go onto the "maybes."

And some complain about the State and Defense leaking things to the media when others on message board sites are doing the same and trying to taint the perceptions of the families involved.

http://www.abc15.com/mediacenter/[email protected]&navCatId=3


imo

OBE, it is my opinion that you have blatantly misrepresented the Romans' family view of what is being said on IS or any other blog. No one has proved anything yet, therefore discussion is open to all opinions. The Romans familiy is clearly as curious about the evidence as many others of us are - regardless of where they get their information or develop their opinion.
 
  • #724
Wasn't there a bullet still in the chamber? If there was, why didn't the kid go ahead and fire that one too? Why stop after 10? Or could another .22 have been used and the round that was still in the chamber was left from an outing some time ago?

Maybe they both had stopped quivering and shaking and no longer moved.
 
  • #725
That's exactly the point. A child this age *did* break down. Grownup LE questioning him over and over again. Even making references to someone saw him. 8 year old child is going to break down. 8 year old child + LE grownups= I'll say what they want me to say.

And, not one person was there to protect him or his rights. Pathetic.

He never did break when they said that someone saw him.

imoo
 
  • #726
OBE, it is my opinion that you have blatantly misrepresented the Romans' family view of what is being said on IS or any other blog. No one has proved anything yet, therefore discussion is open to all opinions. The Romans familiy is clearly as curious about the evidence as many others of us are - regardless of where they get their information or develop their opinion.

From the video that I provided. The Romans spokesperson said they have been receiving emails. I didn't see where they have been sending emails out looking for information.

imoo
 
  • #727
IMHO, 5 minutes to an 8 yo, can SEEM like 30 minutes. They have no conception of time, or numbers for that matter. Like the child saying 1000 spankings. Try and get an 8 yo to sit and count to 1000. He can't do it for that long, because he doesn't have the patients.

The child did say he layed on the ground 'close' to his dad.

I watched parts of the interrogation of the Crowe boy who confessed to killing his sister. It took many hours of questioning to get him to finally confess, much longer than this child. Of course, the Crowe boy was 14 and not just 8 yo.

FWIW, the Crowe boy was exonerated and the REAL killer caught. DNA and blood evidence proved who the REAL killer was. The confession was bogus.

JMHO


fran

He didnt even have five minutes to spend by his dead father's side.


imoo
 
  • #728
In the last few weeks, a number of case followers here asked if I would review the case. I demurred until last night when I read through most of this thread.

Today, I found there is a tape of the interview (interrogation) tape available olline. I watched it (about an hour).

In comparison to the interview techniques that were used to coerce hundreds of children into saying outrageous falsehoods (pure lies) during the satanic-abuse, child-care, witch-hunt scandal of the eighties and early nineties, the techniques the interviewers used in this case were mild by comparison(in my mind). However, they are anything but beyond reproach.

That said, I would expect a trial to be sought, and I certainly would expect the tape to be ruled inadmissable as evidence -- based on little things (chuckle) that have been talked about in this thread such as no parent in the room, no guardian, no permission, etc..

As a point of reference, in the satanic-abuse, child-care trials, most every jury believed what the children claimed. Across the nation, LE never found a single dead baby, a single tunnel, a single secret room, etc., and over forty innocent people were wrongfully convicted and imprisoned. Some are still there.

It will be very interesting to see how events unfold in this case.

FWIW
 
  • #729
  • #730
He never did break when they said that someone saw him. imoo

Agreed. As far as we know, once the boy admitted he killed VR and TR, the boy has not changed his story that he was the shooter. Although he initially mentioned a white car, this idea seems to have faded completely with the boy.
 
  • #731
He never did break when they said that someone saw him.

imoo

In your opinion, as quoted above. I believe we have very different views when it comes to children and what they will do, say, or behave.

There is more to this. The shootings, the interviews, and the way LE has handled this case from the very beginning.

Clipped from an article in Science Daily dated 4/2008.
www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080407074558.htm

"In contrast, another traditional test for finding gunshot residue, the modified Griess test often fails because it lacks such specifity. Its analysis is based on the detection of Nitrogen-based compounds called nitrates, which are gun powder byproducts. But these compounds are also found elswhere leading to possible ambiguty in testing.

"Many chemical cleaners, anything that can be used to take off motor oil or freight dust will test positive for gunshot residue using the Griess test", Burleson said".

It's an interesting read where testing has become more difficult since lead has/is being removed from many newer ammunition.
 
  • #732
From the video that I provided. The Romans spokesperson said they have been receiving emails. I didn't see where they have been sending emails out looking for information.

imoo

I saw the video long before you posted it.
They have been receiving emails from multiple sources and someone along the line recommended some blogs to look at. No one thus far (from any blog that I know), has claimed to be "Ed". The news showed and made reference to the blogger's comments relative to that site, which is active on this case as you know, since you also post there.

Getting any and all folks to think about the "evidence" at hand is not a bad thing, and WS has also been recognized in the news on various cases at times. I would think others have, too.

Please do not make this sound like some twisting of facts or evidence by anyone. It is merely a victim's family looking at all available perspectives, too. Regardless of how they found the information or perspective, they have a right to do that.
 
  • #733
He did if he wasn't the shooter.

How? VRs didn't even get in from work until around 4:50? Would he be sitting there as his father was killed and Tim Romans was killed?:confused:
 
  • #734
I saw the video long before you posted it.
They have been receiving emails from multiple sources and someone along the line recommended some blogs to look at. No one thus far (from any blog that I know), has claimed to be "Ed". The news showed and made reference to the blogger's comments relative to that site, which is active on this case as you know, since you also post there.

Getting any and all folks to think about the "evidence" at hand is not a bad thing, and WS has also been recognized in the news on various cases at times. I would think others have, too.

Please do not make this sound like some twisting of facts or evidence by anyone. It is merely a victim's family looking at all available perspectives, too. Regardless of how they found the information or perspective, they have a right to do that.

Frankly, whatever anyone can do to get LE to take a look at this and "think ourside the box" is a wonderful thing regardless of how it gets there.

I often wonder how differently we would be talking abou this if it was an abused woman who pulled the trigger. Would we really be splitting hairs on every single word.

OBE, what would you consider justice for these families? For the boy? It really seems and I hope I'm not reading too much in to this, your opinion is guilty, convict, throw away the key like we have just stumbled on and saved the world from the next mass murder.

IF (I'm still not 100% convinced) and if he did I'm 100% sure he did not act alone...something snapped and that's the bigger issue.

Apparently, the 1000th spanking journal does not exist, prosecution has no intention to use this comment either. Maybe...just maybe someone "suggested" that idea to him and told him you will not get in trouble because you were abused. Seems odd he offered this up as an excuse the very next day he was in custody.
Actually I think the pieces are starting to fall into place quite easy for the defensive team.
 
  • #735
Apparently, the 1000th spanking journal does not exist, prosecution has no intention to use this comment either. Maybe...just maybe someone "suggested" that idea to him and told him you will not get in trouble because you were abused. Seems odd he offered this up as an excuse the very next day he was in custody.

Good point. Apparently, in custody he told a counselor of the 1000 spanklings journal, which, as far as anyone knows, does not exist.

I cringe when I hear people wanting the boy off so much that they suggest the video and testimony should be thrown out and the boy released. There would be no justice for the victims if testimony is thrown out, he is the murderer, and is released.

So far, since confessing, he has not recanted his story that he killed his father and the boarder. IMO he would have done so by now, since he's been evaluated and has been in custody since early Nov. The boy has never mentioned anyone else being involved. Some posters believe he isn't capable of premeditated murder or murder at all, is protecting someone, or did not act alone, but if an evaluation suggested he's too young to understand the charges, IMO he's too young to not confess another scenario and keep such a deep, dark secret.
 
  • #736
Good point. Apparently, in custody he told a counselor of the 1000 spanklings journal, which, as far as anyone knows, does not exist.

I cringe when I hear people wanting the boy off so much that they suggest the video and testimony should be thrown out and the boy released. There would be no justice for the victims if testimony is thrown out, he is the murderer, and is released.

So far, since confessing, he has not recanted his story that he killed his father and the boarder. IMO he would have done so by now, since he's been evaluated and has been in custody since early Nov. The boy has never mentioned anyone else being involved. Some posters believe he isn't capable of premeditated murder or murder at all, is protecting someone, or did not act alone, but if an evaluation suggested he's too young to understand the charges, IMO he's too young to not confess another scenario and keep such a deep, dark secret.

I totally agree
 
  • #737
So far, since confessing, he has not recanted his story that he killed his father and the boarder. IMO he would have done so by now, since he's been evaluated and has been in custody since early Nov. The boy has never mentioned anyone else being involved. Some posters believe he isn't capable of premeditated murder or murder at all, is protecting someone, or did not act alone, but if an evaluation suggested he's too young to understand the charges, IMO he's too young to not confess another scenario and keep such a deep, dark secret.[/QUOTE]

Hi Trino,
I just don't think we know that for sure because of the gag order. We only know what was originally released to the press and the motions of the courts. I think being here in Phoenix we probably hear more but that has just not bee talked about either way.
 
  • #738
Frankly, whatever anyone can do to get LE to take a look at this and "think ourside the box" is a wonderful thing regardless of how it gets there.

I often wonder how differently we would be talking abou this if it was an abused woman who pulled the trigger. Would we really be splitting hairs on every single word.

OBE, what would you consider justice for these families? For the boy? It really seems and I hope I'm not reading too much in to this, your opinion is guilty, convict, throw away the key like we have just stumbled on and saved the world from the next mass murder.

IF (I'm still not 100% convinced) and if he did I'm 100% sure he did not act alone...something snapped and that's the bigger issue.

Apparently, the 1000th spanking journal does not exist, prosecution has no intention to use this comment either. Maybe...just maybe someone "suggested" that idea to him and told him you will not get in trouble because you were abused. Seems odd he offered this up as an excuse the very next day he was in custody.
Actually I think the pieces are starting to fall into place quite easy for the defensive team.

Yes, you are reading too much into my opinion. I do believe he is guilty and I have never made any qualms about stating my opinion. I have never stated one time that I want to throw away the key.

If he is guilty, then these family members deserve justice for their murdered family members. The boy needs to be punished for his deeds and also receive extensive therapy treatment, hoping that he doesn't become like other juvenile offenders, who have a 50% recidivism rate. I believe if he is found guilty, he should be sentenced under the juvenile guidelines, although that means that one of the murdered victims will never receive justice because the maximum he can get is until the age of 18 and he could get that for just one murder. So he will be out and about at the young age of 18 even though he killed not only one but two people.

We certainly wouldn't be splitting hairs if he were an adult male who had committed double homicide. Most would want to see him rot.

While I respect your opinion. I think this boy acted alone and there is nothing that proves this boy was abused. Even his own attorney made a point to tell the Judge that they have never said he was abused.

imo
 
  • #739
In the last few weeks, a number of case followers here asked if I would review the case. I demurred until last night when I read through most of this thread.

Today, I found there is a tape of the interview (interrogation) tape available olline. I watched it (about an hour).

In comparison to the interview techniques that were used to coerce hundreds of children into saying outrageous falsehoods (pure lies) during the satanic-abuse, child-care, witch-hunt scandal of the eighties and early nineties, the techniques the interviewers used in this case were mild by comparison(in my mind). However, they are anything but beyond reproach.

That said, I would expect a trial to be sought, and I certainly would expect the tape to be ruled inadmissable as evidence -- based on little things (chuckle) that has been talked about in this thread such as no parent in the room, no guardian, no permission, etc..

As a point of reference, in the satanic-abuse, child-care trials, most every jury believed what the children claimed. Across the nation, LE never found a single dead baby, a single tunnel, a single secret room, etc., and over forty innocent people were wrongfully convicted and imprisoned. Some are still there.

It will be very interesting to see how events unfold in this case.

FWIW
Very well said.Thank you for sharing with us.
 
  • #740
They don't need the confession tape. There must be plenty of evidence to convict. I hope they do go to trial instead of plea bargain... so we know what the evidence is.
 
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