AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[fran]

This case has been a sobering wake up call to me regarding our justice system. I always thought it was a joke, the def lawyers crying 'rush to judgment!' and I believed it when they said there's only a very small percentage of people in jail that are innocent.

What's also clear to me now, is the 'plea' system. It works both ways, fwiw, the pros isn't sure it can convince a jury (or judge) the accused is guilty and the def in turn, is unsure that they could convince (even a judge) of the innocence of the accused.

Better to take a sure thing for the pros,....... and for the def a set, lessor sentence, than to risk a possilbe life-time punishment.

Believe me, in the future, I'll be little more careful before I proclaim I believe an accused is guilty here on the pages of Websleuths. I have a new respect for def attorneys. Because I've seen it for myself, how a (possibly) innocent person can be convicted with the flimsiest of evidence and a multitude of unanswered questions, rumors and innuendos, and well-placed propoganda by the pros team,.............and a gag order that appears to only be in effect for the defense team.

JMHO
fran

 

[Trino]

This case has been a sobering wake up call to me regarding our justice system. I always thought it was a joke, the def lawyers crying 'rush to judgment!' and I believed it when they said there's only a very small percentage of people in jail that are innocent.

What's also clear to me now, is the 'plea' system. It works both ways, fwiw, the pros isn't sure it can convince a jury (or judge) the accused is guilty and the def in turn, is unsure that they could convince (even a judge) of the innocence of the accused.

Better to take a sure thing for the pros,....... and for the def a set, lessor sentence, than to risk a possilbe life-time punishment.

Believe me, in the future, I'll be little more careful before I proclaim I believe an accused is guilty here on the pages of Websleuths. I have a new respect for def attorneys. Because I've seen it for myself, how a (possibly) innocent person can be convicted with the flimsiest of evidence and a multitude of unanswered questions, rumors and innuendos, and well-placed propoganda by the pros team,.............and a gag order that appears to only be in effect for the defense team.JMHOfran

I don't belive the plea is one in which the pros isn't sure it can convince a jury; nor do I believe the def is unsure they could convince a jury/judge of the boy's innocence. IMO the judge, def, pro are all on board that they don't want to throw away a young boy and are looking out for his best interests. We have to wonder what the other 300 pages show.

 

[shadowraiths]

I mentioned in my last post the similarity between this case and the murder of Stephanie Crowe in 1998.

One need only read Det. Matrese Avila's report (or, for that matter, the transcripts of the "interview") to see the similarities between this child's confession and the Michael Crowe case. In fact, Ginzy, noted them in the first thread as well as posting a link to the Crime Library article on that case. The extremely tragic and quite disturbing Crowe case received exhaustive coverage by the San Diego Union Tribune. Additionally, Lifetime made a movie titled, "The Interrogation of Michael Crowe," National Geographic's special on false confessions highlighted Michael's case, and Spike TV did a crime scene recreation of Stephanie's brutal murder on their show, "Murder." If anything Michael Crowe's case exemplifies the problems that can occur when LE thinks they have their "man" (or as in this case, boy). What seemed exceptionally tragic to me about his case was that Michael was not allowed to attend his murdered sister's funeral. That, instead of being able to be with his family to mourn the brutal death of his sister, he was charged with murder in the first after being mentally tortured by those "well meaning" LEOs.

 

[shadowraiths]

I have to wonder out loud - what if... what if? A little boy could be convinced by very capable LE, to confess and make it detailed.

The issue I take with the so-called confession is that LE supplied the details.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Didn't the Michael Crowe interrogation go on for two days? This boy was only interviewed for an hour.

I do not see the comparison in the two cases.

In this case imo they do have evidence that this boy committed the crime imo and I think it is in the 300 pages of DPS investigation report that we have not seen.....YET.

In the Crowe case they only had the confession.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This case has been a sobering wake up call to me regarding our justice system. I always thought it was a joke, the def lawyers crying 'rush to judgment!' and I believed it when they said there's only a very small percentage of people in jail that are innocent.

What's also clear to me now, is the 'plea' system. It works both ways, fwiw, the pros isn't sure it can convince a jury (or judge) the accused is guilty and the def in turn, is unsure that they could convince (even a judge) of the innocence of the accused.

Better to take a sure thing for the pros,....... and for the def a set, lessor sentence, than to risk a possible life-time punishment.

Believe me, in the future, I'll be little more careful before I proclaim I believe an accused is guilty here on the pages of Websleuths. I have a new respect for def attorneys. Because I've seen it for myself, how a (possibly) innocent person can be convicted with the flimsiest of evidence and a multitude of unanswered questions, rumors and innuendos, and well-placed propoganda by the pros team,.............and a gag order that appears to only be in effect for the defense team.

JMHO
fran

I have not heard the DA in this case speak out in public, even once.

I have read many many times where the defense attorneys have.

The gag order is in place as the Judge deemed it. He clearly said that transcripts only would be available to the media. "Gag order" means no one can speak out verbally yet the defense has done it time after time.

There is certainly no rush to judgment in this case. It has been an ongoing investigation for over three months. No trial has even commenced and won't because of the plea deal imo.

imoo

 

[Openmind]

The issue I take with the so-called confession is that LE supplied the details.

Good point

OBE

I have not heard the DA in this case speak out in public, even once.

If I were the DA, I would keep my mouth closed, as well, considering how the confession was handled and the age of the accused.

Didn't the Michael Crowe interrogation go on for two days? This boy was only interviewed for an hour.

If not different, just as bad. They tagged team an eight year old without the benefit of an adult to protect the child's rights.

 

[Native New Yorker]

I have also been following this case from the beginning, and have also felt that there was a rush to judgment, both from local LE, and also on the boards.
I cannot help but wonder what if this little boy were from a wealthy family, with all the good attorneys that money could buy....I think that his low socio-economic status has definitely worked against him, as it does for many poor folks. A real crying shame. I, for one, have been waiting to hear more evidence.
Another travesty against the poor were those two judges in PA, who recently were found to be sending innocent kids to work treatment programs, to make one of their pals rich....http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/02/14/two_pa_judges_sued_in_kickback_scheme/
another shocking example of how the poor get ensnared
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/02/14/two_pa_judges_sued_in_kickback_scheme/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have also been following this case from the beginning, and have also felt that there was a rush to judgment, both from local LE, and also on the boards.
I cannot help but wonder what if this little boy were from a wealthy family, with all the good attorneys that money could buy....I think that his low socio-economic status has definitely worked against him, as it does for many poor folks. A real crying shame. I, for one, have been waiting to hear more evidence.
Another travesty against the poor were those two judges in PA, who recently were found to be sending innocent kids to work treatment programs, to make one of their pals rich....http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/02/14/two_pa_judges_sued_in_kickback_scheme/
another shocking example of how the poor get ensnared
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/02/14/two_pa_judges_sued_in_kickback_scheme/

I don't see this kid as being poor. Seems to have come from middle class imo. Lived in home owned by stepmother. Stepmother works and so did the father. Sounds like many average families across America.

imoo

 

[Native New Yorker]

Sorry to disagree, but he was clearly from a lower socio-economic background. I was not talking about " many average families across the United States'. I was talking about what happens when a lower class child is entangled in a crime, and does not have the big bucks for a fancy lawyer, as rich families do.
Only a lower class family would take in a boarder, sorry, but you only do that if you need the $$$$.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry to disagree, but he was clearly from a lower socio-economic background. I was not talking about " many average families across the United States'. I was talking about what happens when a lower class child is entangled in a crime, and does not have the big bucks for a fancy lawyer, as rich families do.
Only a lower class family would take in a boarder, sorry, but you only do that if you need the $$$$.

Oh I don't know if they may have needed the money. Vincent may have just thought he was helping a coworker out. They only charged him $50 per week.

The construction companies that I know that have crews at power plants pays a much higher pay than menial wages and the boy's stepmother works in a doctor's office.

I still see nothing that shows they were of lower class. He seemed to have all the amenities that all other kids have.

I would think in a town of only 4000 their pay scale per year was much higher than the average family there.

Now they weren't rolling in dough but I don't think they were doing without either.

I have no clue about his mother, Eryn, or even if she has a job. She is the custodian of this boy now.

imoo

 

[Trino]

Sorry to disagree, but he was clearly from a lower socio-economic background. I was not talking about " many average families across the United States'. I was talking about what happens when a lower class child is entangled in a crime, and does not have the big bucks for a fancy lawyer, as rich families do.
Only a lower class family would take in a boarder, sorry, but you only do that if you need the $$$$.

I don't believe this family was from a lower socio-economic background. Maybe you need to really see more people from the type of background you believe to be lower socio-economic. The average middle American family makes around $44,000, and I believe the Romano family would fall into that category. People take in boarders for various reasons, not always economic.

TR boarded with VR because TR had a 170 mile drive to work and back. Sure, the money may have helped, but they were friends.

We live in a nice neighborhood. Several years ago the family across the street took in his brother as a boarder when the brother was having marital problems. They charged him, and he lived there for at least 6 months.

 

[Openmind]

I questioned why Vincent would take in a boarder and the response was they wanted/needed the $200 a month. Now, it is they didn't necessarily need the money but were helping out a friend. A friend with a history of dealing drugs and one that was a married man that went out to bars to drink and flirt with woman. Whatever. If they didn't need the extra income, why have an extra adult in your house especially if you had just gotten married-- friend or not. Wasn't there enough to deal with without another new element for this new family to asorb?

This home bothers me very much regardless if the boy did this or not. I don't care if it is legal of not, keeping guns and ammunition available to a child this young is foolish. And don't tell me about country folk, I have lived in the country and all the men in my family hunt. My state has CAP laws (and I know Arizona does not) and I am sure there are people that still flaunt the law and keep guns unsecured around thier children. Sadly, we can't legislate common sense. And leaving an eight year old alone is foolish. Again, being legal does not mean it is the best decision to make.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I questioned why Vincent would take in a boarder and the response was they wanted/needed the $200 a month. Now, it is they didn't necessarily need the money but were helping out a friend. A friend with a history of dealing drugs and one that was a married man that went out to bars to drink and flirt with woman. Whatever. If they didn't need the extra income, why have an extra adult in your house especially if you had just gotten married-- friend or not. Wasn't there enough to deal with without another new element for this new family to asorb?

I would think that Vinnie, Tiffany and the boy had been together on a regular basis for two years before their marriage. Maybe even longer.

Tim was only there three days a week. He worked during the day and I doubt he was around the home much.

There is nothing that has been stated that the Romeros even knew about Tim's drug dealings in the town he was from. That was a 170 miles away from the Romeros.

imoo

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would think that Vinnie, Tiffany and the boy had been together on a regular basis for two years before their marriage. Maybe even longer.

Tim was only there three days a week. He worked during the day and I doubt he was around the home much.

There is nothing that has been stated that the Romeros even knew about Tim's drug dealings in the town he was from. That was a 170 miles away from the Romeros.

imoo

I think they were together for closer to 4.5 years...if I recall correctly:waitasec:

For ALL intensive purposes Tiffany WAS his mother. He called her mom and apparently he wasn't angry with her, or she would be DEAD too!
His birth mother only recently reconnected with the boy my understanding is she was missing in action for YEARS!

imo

 

[Fairy1]

I think they were together for closer to 4.5 years...if I recall correctly:waitasec:

For ALL intensive purposes Tiffany WAS his mother. He called her mom and apparently he wasn't angry with her, or she would be DEAD too!
His birth mother only recently reconnected with the boy my understanding is she was missing in action for YEARS!

imo

Actually, Eryn has been in this boy's life regularly and had, IIRC, just left AZ from her latest visit the weekend before. I don't recall seeing anything specific regarding the dynamic between the boy and the stepmom. Other than the swats she gave him.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Actually, Eryn has been in this boy's life regularly and had, IIRC, just left AZ from her latest visit the weekend before. I don't recall seeing anything specific regarding the dynamic between the boy and the stepmom. Other than the swats she gave him.

Eryn failed to have any contact with the child for YEARS, she only recently started talking to and actually visiting the boy.

Seems atlitte strange to me she pops back into the picture, visits the weekend and next thing we know the boy murders two men. I'd love to know what she talked about with the boy that weekend.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Eryn failed to have any contact with the child for YEARS, she only recently started talking to and actually visiting the boy.

I wonder why Eryn jumps from state to state. I also wonder if she ever paid one bit of child support for their son.

Vinnie was afraid she was going to kidnap the boy. They even called the police and made a report.

No telling what she filled his head with when she talked with him on the phone or when she came once a month to see him.

imo

 

[fran]

Actually, Eryn has been in this boy's life regularly and had, IIRC, just left AZ from her latest visit the weekend before. I don't recall seeing anything specific regarding the dynamic between the boy and the stepmom. Other than the swats she gave him.

There was the police interview with Eryn where-by she discussed the child's step mom. Apparently after the child told his mom about his dad and step-mom fighting a lot, she called Vince's wife. Eryn was afraid she'd gotten her son in trouble because the next time she talked to him about it, he told her his step-mom said 'what goes on here, stays here,' or something like that. Also, from that point on, I understand, the step-mom listened in on the child's phone calls with his mom.

JMHO
fran

 

[Fairy1]

I'm curious about the relationship between Tim and Vince. I do find it very odd that a newlywed couple would want a roommate around unless they really did need the money. Particularly if they didn't know him well and when there was a young child who they should have known would need time to adapt to the new family situation. Not saying it's impossible, but just peculiar, IMO.

Now, if Tim and Vince were good friends and Vince was just trying to help out a buddy, he surely would have known about Tim's, uh, extracurricular activities. The majority of Vince's friends interviewed by LE (that were readable anyway) said they really didn't know Tim. That doesn't sound like they were good friends to me.

BTW, the only further digging for another killer appears to have been by folks like us - not LE. Once they had their "confession," they basically shut down. And the investigation they did conduct was lax at best. It will be very interesting to see the evidence they have and the details of the plea deal.