AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[Linda7NJ]

I'm curious about the relationship between Tim and Vince. I do find it very odd that a newlywed couple would want a roommate around unless they really did need the money. Particularly if they didn't know him well and when there was a young child who they should have known would need time to adapt to the new family situation. Not saying it's impossible, but just peculiar, IMO.

Now, if Tim and Vince were good friends and Vince was just trying to help out a buddy, he surely would have known about Tim's, uh, extracurricular activities. The majority of Vince's friends interviewed by LE (that were readable anyway) said they really didn't know Tim. That doesn't sound like they were good friends to me.

BTW, the only further digging for another killer appears to have been by folks like us - not LE. Once they had their "confession," they basically shut down. And the investigation they did conduct was lax at best. It will be very interesting to see the evidence they have and the details of the plea deal.

Tim stayed there 3 days a week...most of the, time from what I gather wasn't spent actually in the home.

Your statement about the investigation basically shutting down after the confession is a completely and totally false. The public records that have been released proves it.

What was released was only a small fraction of ALL of the investigation that was going on....and there was plenty, months worth!

 

[PattyCake]

90% of all criminal cases are plead out. Most criminals are guilty of their crimes and it really saves time and money to do a plea and get it over with. This case has lingered on now for over three months. Much money has been spent. Even the state of AZ has had to pay for his defense and all the care and supervision he has been given.

The time line and those who knew him saying he is capable of this is what makes me think this boy is guilty, including the list of other things, that Linda has posted. The witness who saw him outside shortly after the gunfire, petting his dog and walking away from the crime scene.

It certainly is in the best interest of this boy to plea out. If not it seems the defense is very worried that JR is thinking about dismissing count one and if that were to happen when this boy became of age to be tried as an adult he could do serious prison time, maybe even life.

Actually the defense attorneys clarified their statements. He will do no jail time in State detention but could possibly do time in a county detention center.

imo

Hey Ocean: I'm not saying its a bad deal for the boy, it isn't. It's the best deal imaginable IF he's guilty - For him and him only.

Not for society, not for his family, not for any of us at all. To have this child (IF he's guilty) remain completely free and integrated into our society and we will lose track of who he is... IS not the best outcome for all IF he's guilty IMO.

Prosecutors should be VERY concerned about this child going home to any of his family members SHOULD they truly feel this child is guilty.

If this child killed for the slimmest of reasons... I certainly would never have a sound sleep ever again if I was the person caring for this young boy. He's not safe, he's not healed, he's not whole. Assuming he's guilty.

All around, it concerns me greatly no matter if innocent or guilty.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Hey Ocean: I'm not saying its a bad deal for the boy, it isn't. It's the best deal imaginable IF he's guilty - For him and him only.

Not for society, not for his family, not for any of us at all. To have this child (IF he's guilty) remain completely free and integrated into our society and we will lose track of who he is... IS not the best outcome for all IF he's guilty IMO.

Prosecutors should be VERY concerned about this child going home to any of his family members SHOULD they truly feel this child is guilty.

If this child killed for the slimmest of reasons... I certainly would never have a sound sleep ever again if I was the person caring for this young boy. He's not safe, he's not healed, he's not whole. Assuming he's guilty.

All around, it concerns me greatly no matter if innocent or guilty.

Good Morning, Patty!

Yes, you are correct and I do believe the Prosecutor all along as been very worried about that. I don't think JR will accept the plea if he thinks the boy did not do these crimes and I do pray that the boy will be under the jurisdictional control of the court, where it will be mandated that he is to receive extensive mental treatment.

I think all parties are extremely aware that this must be done. Not only for the boy's best interest but everyone else as a whole.

We sure wouldn't want to see him fall through the cracks with no monitoring and no therapy only to hear of him later on doing some other criminal act.

Imo, this is very much on the mind of JR and I think he will try to cover all bases.



imoo

 

[Trino]

I'm curious about the relationship between Tim and Vince. I do find it very odd that a newlywed couple would want a roommate around unless they really did need the money. Particularly if they didn't know him well and when there was a young child who they should have known would need time to adapt to the new family situation. Not saying it's impossible, but just peculiar, IMO.

Now, if Tim and Vince were good friends and Vince was just trying to help out a buddy, he surely would have known about Tim's, uh, extracurricular activities. The majority of Vince's friends interviewed by LE (that were readable anyway) said they really didn't know Tim. That doesn't sound like they were good friends to me.

BTW, the only further digging for another killer appears to have been by folks like us - not LE. Once they had their "confession," they basically shut down. And the investigation they did conduct was lax at best. It will be very interesting to see the evidence they have and the details of the plea deal.

TR and Tiffany had been together 4.5 years and most likely lived together much of that time - hardly newly weds.

As to the evidence, I doubt the public will be privy to most of it, since the boy is being treated as a juvenile.

 

[fran]

Let's admit it, there have been those on this board ready to throw the boy under the bus from almost the beginning of the discussion. You know you have. Maybe the boy did it. I have never thought it impossible. What most troubles me is that LE seems to have made a similar fast judgement, and almost all of their rapid decision to charge the boy came from the confession. I mentioned in my last post the similarity between this case and the murder of Stephanie Crowe in 1998. Within 2 or 3 days they had their killer, the girl's older brother, Michael Crowe. They had a confession. They further implicated 2 of his friends allegding some conspiracy and one of those friend's confessed. LE was so sure they had everything wrapped up they did not investigate any other leads, even though a strong one came in. As it turns out, all three of the boys were innocent, proven by DNA. Another person was eventually convicted in the case. Had these boys not had strong family support and stuck together they might have been executed by now.
I dare anybody to read the full accounts of the Stephanie Crowe murder and the Michael Crowe charges and not see numerous similarities in this case. Especially in how the confessions came about and how fast the authorities concluded the case was closed and investigated only what they thought would prove their original theory.
If anybody wishes to point out how ridiculous my ideas are without thoroughly researching the other case, well, put up or shut up.

Thank you for posting Mike. Yes, I've seen the youtube of Michael's alleged confession. IMO, this child's confession was similar.

I understand that Michael was interrogated for serveral hours and this child only one hour. But then again, Michael was almost twice as old as this boy.

Like taking candy from a baby, if you ask me. Those adults officers should be ashamed of themselves.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Hmmm.........I've been looking around today and I'm not sure the judge will allow a plea deal on this case, yet.

IF the child hasn't been deemed competent or not, how would he be able to accept or reject the plea?

Doesn't make sense, IMO. The pros may want the plea deal worked out before the competency hearing, but I'm not convinced it'll work out the way he wants.

JMHO
fran

This guilty verdict was thrown out and the child released when it was brought forth that the 12 yo hadn't been deemed competent.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804EED81438F934A15752C0A9629C8B63

Article about Juvenile Competency to stand trial
http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/12-3gris.html

 

[OrdinaryLife]

Hmmm.........I've been looking around today and I'm not sure the judge will allow a plea deal on this case, yet.

IF the child hasn't been deemed competent or not, how would he be able to accept or reject the plea?

Doesn't make sense, IMO. The pros may want the plea deal worked out before the competency hearing, but I'm not convinced it'll work out the way he wants.

JMHO
fran

This guilty verdict was thrown out and the child released when it was brought forth that the 12 yo hadn't been deemed competent.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9804EED81438F934A15752C0A9629C8B63

Article about Juvenile Competency to stand trial
http://www.abanet.org/crimjust/juvjus/12-3gris.html

If I'm not mistaken, the DA offered their first plea bargain to the Defense back in late November. If I remember correctly, the Defense passed on it due to wanting competency testing, evidence not be fully processed, etc. I'll find a link. Here it is...

www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/30/plea-deal-offered-8ye_n_147231.html?page=2

This dealing between DA and Defense began just 3 weeks after the murders. I still believe there is so much more that we do not know. So much more....

IMVHO, of course.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

At least the St. John community is reaching out and giving support to Tiffany Romero.

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=20249553&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=8

Benefit taco dinner set for March 19
01/27/2009
A benefit taco dinner for Tiffany Romero is scheduled for Thursday, March 19, at 6 p.m. at St. Johns Middle School. Cost for the dinner is $5 per person and $25 for immediate family members.



An account has been set up at Bank of the West for donation in the name "Tiffany Romero Fund."
For more information, call (928) 337-2000.
***************************************************

It has to be hard for Tiffany with Vinnie's income being instantly gone.

imo

 

[Fairy1]

TR and Tiffany had been together 4.5 years and most likely lived together much of that time - hardly newly weds.

As to the evidence, I doubt the public will be privy to most of it, since the boy is being treated as a juvenile.

We actually have no idea whether they were living together most of that time or any of that time. It's been argued by some here that after years of having dad all to himself, having a new mom and a new environment was what may have driven this boy to kill. Can't have it both ways.

And as far as the investigation following the confession goes, the majority of what I've seen was designed to support the confession, not to dispel it. If they eventually do hang these murders on this kid, I sincerely hope the foresic evidence supports it 100%. Otherwise, his life will likely be destroyed beyond repair and a killer or killers will still be free to roam the streets.

Also, I don't know the legalities of evidence becoming public record following a plea deal - especially when a gag order has been in place. But I feel quite certain that if this boy pleads guilty, the majority of the public will demand to know why and how it came to that. I sure will.

 

[Trino]

We actually have no idea whether they were living together most of that time or any of that time. It's been argued by some here that after years of having dad all to himself, having a new mom and a new environment was what may have driven this boy to kill. Can't have it both ways.

And as far as the investigation following the confession goes, the majority of what I've seen was designed to support the confession, not to dispel it. If they eventually do hang these murders on this kid, I sincerely hope the foresic evidence supports it 100%. Otherwise, his life will likely be destroyed beyond repair and a killer or killers will still be free to roam the streets.

Also, I don't know the legalities of evidence becoming public record following a plea deal - especially when a gag order has been in place. But I feel quite certain that if this boy pleads guilty, the majority of the public will demand to know why and how it came to that. I sure will.

The public can demand all they want, but if the judge refuses, it will not be made public. I'm guessing the public wants to know what's in the 300 pages we've not seen, but Judge R says no.

 

[Fairy1]

The public can demand all they want, but if the judge refuses, it will not be made public. I'm guessing the public wants to know what's in the 300 pages we've not seen, but Judge R says no.

Well, I meant AFTER the plea deal is a done deal. And I assume it will be subject to the laws of the state of AZ, not this individual judge. As I said, I don't know.

 

[fran]

Well, I meant AFTER the plea deal is a done deal. And I assume it will be subject to the laws of the state of AZ, not this individual judge. As I said, I don't know.

IMHO, they haven't had a problem displaying all these other documents that some 'claim' points towards the child as the perp. I don't see any reason after a plea, that they can't show us what they have.

IF they don't show what they have, the people will think it's because they didn't have anything at all.

I'd like to know just what it is that they THINK makes this child look guilty. I haven't seen anything yet, myself.

JMHO
fran

 

[Fairy1]

At least the St. John community is reaching out and giving support to Tiffany Romero.

http://www.wmicentral.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=20249553&BRD=2264&PAG=461&dept_id=505965&rfi=8

Benefit taco dinner set for March 19
01/27/2009
A benefit taco dinner for Tiffany Romero is scheduled for Thursday, March 19, at 6 p.m. at St. Johns Middle School. Cost for the dinner is $5 per person and $25 for immediate family members.



An account has been set up at Bank of the West for donation in the name "Tiffany Romero Fund."
For more information, call (928) 337-2000.
***************************************************

It has to be hard for Tiffany with Vinnie's income being instantly gone.

imo

Hmmm - $5 per person and $25 for immediate family members? Hardly seems fair....

 

[Openmind]

Do you think they meant $2.50 for immediate family members?

 

[fran]

While I was watching this program the other night, this child's case came to my mind. We are to believe that this 8 yo child managed to fire and reload, at two grown men, TEN times, killing both of them. Without the men managing to either get away or get to him?

I don't think so. The scenario is ludicrous at best, imho. I hope his def attorneys watched this program and saw how absurd the pros claim is.

How far can a person run, when their life depends on it, in 5 to 7 seconds? The below case was NOT with a single bolt action either, which takes at least three steps before it's reloaded and ready to fire.

No way.

JMHO
fran

http://www.bdtonline.com/local/local_story_017195052.html

Shooting survivors share incredible story with ‘Dateline NBC’

By Bill Archer
Bluefield Daily Telegraph

SPRINGVILLE, Va. — After an enjoyable evening of cooking trout over an open campfire and sharing food with a stranger, Randall Lee Smith fired two bullets each into Scott Johnston and Sean Farmer, and wanted to fire some more.

“Bullets were flying before I saw a gun,” Farmer, 33, said in an interview last week. “He was so close to me, that the bullets he shot into me left powder burns.” Smith shot Farmer in the back of his head at point-blank range, and fired a second round from his .22 caliber handgun into Farmer’s back. The bullets remain in Farmer’s head and torso.

“We were face-to-face,” Farmer said of the instant after realizing it had been Smith shooting, and not someone from outside the camp. “I could feel the darkness in him, but I could also feel the brightness within me. I turned, and ran to my car. At the time it happened, I knew I didn’t have time to struggle. I knew I had to get away.”

 

[SoobsinMI]

Hmmm - $5 per person and $25 for immediate family members? Hardly seems fair....

What that usually means is it is $5 per person. If you have an "immediate" family (mother/father/children) of five, then it would be $25. If you have SIX in your immediate family, it would mean that you still only pay $25 for the entire family, not $30.

I saw a few pages back where it was said that the Romeros were middle class, not poor, and that Tiffany had no financial reason to have her husband killed. She probably didn't. But if they are having a benefit, I'd say she at least has some bills to pay.

 

[azmama]

While I was watching this program the other night, this child's case came to my mind. We are to believe that this 8 yo child managed to fire and reload, at two grown men, TEN times, killing both of them. Without the men managing to either get away or get to him?

I don't think so. The scenario is ludicrous at best, imho. I hope his def attorneys watched this program and saw how absurd the pros claim is.

How far can a person run, when their life depends on it, in 5 to 7 seconds? The below case was NOT with a single bolt action either, which takes at least three steps before it's reloaded and ready to fire.

No way.

JMHO
fran

Bolded by me; I can not agree with you more Fran! I am with you in the same opinion, this whole circus is completely insane.

I abhore the thought of most lawsuits, but in this case I would like to see a HUGE payout on behalf of LE to this family.

Ugh, the thought of a taco dinner with Tiffany makes me want to VOMIT!:boohoo: Hmmmm wonder what the show will be for that? I would like to take a road trip just to see!

I would like to ask her what happened to all of her maternal love for him????
That doesn't just vanish in an instant!:waitasec:

From the things I have learned about all of this lately, she should be worried about her own hide about now!

all imoho of course...

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Azmama,

From the things I have learned about all of this lately, she should be worried about her own hide about now!

Why should she be worried about her own safety? :waitasec:

It seems the town of St. John is reaching out to Tiffany.

Maybe they really know her better than any of us here do. Sure sounds like it. I bet they will have a good turnout.

imoo

 

[Trino]

Azmama,

From the things I have learned about all of this lately, she should be worried about her own hide about now!

Why should she be worried about her own safety? :waitasec:

It seems the town of St. John is reaching out to Tiffany.

Maybe they really know her better than any of us here do. Sure sounds like it. I bet they will have a good turnout. imoo

Since we don't really know Tiffany, and the town supports her, who are we to judge her?

Tiffany owned the house, but I don't believe she adopted the boy. I wonder what liability she might have with a possible lawsuit. I assume VR owned half because of the marriage. She might need more than a taco dinner.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Since we don't really know Tiffany, and the town supports her, who are we to judge her?

Tiffany owned the house, but I don't believe she adopted the boy. I wonder what liability she might have with a possible lawsuit. I assume VR owned half because of the marriage. She might need more than a taco dinner.

Right, I will leave it to the people that knows her best.

If sued she may have to declare bankruptcy. Maybe in her homeowners insurance they have a clause where they will pay off a lawsuit for a certain amount. I highly doubt she has vast assets. At least she would get to keep her original home that she had for years before this all occurred.

I don't know if it would be considered half his since she did not get this property during the marriage of 2 months and she probably sends the payment for it with her own signature on the check.

imoo