AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #4

[azmama]

ps- blood in the boy's underwear certainly wouldn't have been from a spanking by a hand. Unless it was a beating with something or a sexual assault. Imo

exactly!

~OBE~ This sounds silly, but since finding web sleuths I haven't been looking for crime news anywhere else.....so I have to ask you- On the other sites where it was talking about the things that the boy said and his behavior, how were these behaviors discovered? Opinion? Knowing someone in the town? I am just curious, it is all interesting information....thanks

 

[oceanblueeyes]

PS- Blood in the boy's underwear certainly wouldn't have been from a spanking by a hand. Unless it was a beating with something or a sexual assault. IMO

The blood was found on pieces of his clothing, not just the underwear.

We will have to wait and see who's blood it belongs to. It could be the boy's. It could be animal blood that he got on him when cleaning it to prepare it to be cooked. It could be the victims' blood and he stashed them the day of the murders.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

exactly!

~OBE~ This sounds silly, but since finding web sleuths I haven't been looking for crime news anywhere else.....so I have to ask you- On the other sites where it was talking about the things that the boy said and his behavior, how were these behaviors discovered? Opinion? Knowing someone in the town? I am just curious, it is all interesting information....thanks

You mean the threat to kill his father to his face and then later telling someone else that he was going to kill his dad or that a witness saw him try to drown his half sister? etc.

All those things have been disclosed by the two media sites that have the DPS investigation transcripts and police reports.

The links have already been placed here and will be above this post.

imo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

The blood was found on pieces of his clothing, not just the underwear.

We will have to wait and see who's blood it belongs to. It could be the boy's. It could be animal blood that he got on him when cleaning it to prepare it to be cooked. It could be the victims' blood and he stashed them the day of the murders.

imo

Has anyone person shared this child went hunting? This can only be a personal opinion with nothing based closely to fact since there is absolutely nothing to back it up one iota. And, if the child "stashed" his clothing, how did LE miss when going through the home for evidence? Again, it cannot be helped, but question the way the case and evidence was obtained. Obviously, concerning bloody clothes within the home, badly.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Has anyone person shared this child went hunting? This can only be a personal opinion with nothing based closely to fact since there is absolutely nothing to back it up one iota. And, if the child "stashed" his clothing, how did LE miss when going through the home for evidence? Again, it cannot be helped, but question the way the case and evidence was obtained. Obviously, concerning bloody clothes within the home, badly.

I am not sure what you are asking but yes the boy himself did say he went hunting with his dad, iirc. That is why he was given the .22 youth model rifle.

I don't have those answers. It may be in the stack of transcripts given to the media where exactly the clothes were first found and if they were stuffed back there as if trying to hide them.

I don't think they were looking for the boy's clothing when they first got the SW of the home. They thought he had only been an eye witness who came upon the dead bodies. Probably the same reason they didn't check for GSR on his hands that day. At that time they didn't think he was the shooter.

imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I am not sure what you are asking but yes the boy himself did say he went hunting with his dad, iirc. That is why he was given the .22 youth model rifle.

I don't have those answers. It may be in the stack of transcripts given to the media where exactly the clothes were first found and if they were stuffed back there as if trying to hide them.

I don't think they were looking for the boy's clothing when they first got the SW of the home. They thought he had only been an eye witness who came upon the dead bodies. Probably the same reason they didn't check for GSR on his hands that day. At that time they didn't think he was the shooter.

imoo

I responded to your post and opinion concerning hunting and blood on clothes. As far as LE being in the home to gather investigative evidence, there is absolutely no excuse not to be as thorough as possible. This was a double homicide. LE screwed up and there is no excuse no matter how it is "painted". Sorry, whether this child was a suspect or not, *everything* should have been taken. No excuses. I cannot give LE a break on this one. They messed up royally.

IMHO and just sayin', as the norm....

 

[Openmind]

Going with the idea the boy did commit these crimes, my issue is how easy it is to dismiss the boy as a spoiled monster that in a tiff decided to murder his father and his friend. One thing for sure, if true, the child did not spoil himself. If the father had spent all his time and energy with this boy and then when his life changed he didn't take the time to help his son adjust to these huge differences in both their lives, he should have. If the child was acting bratty, and this formerly doting father decided to hit around on the boy, and, worse yet, let other people do it for him, to convey he was not center stage anymore, I can see an immature, unbalanced child becoming defiant, feeling abandoned, frustrated, and reactionary. Obviously, no one knew how desperate or disturbed this child had become. That close relationship was not as close as they thought. Cherry picking a comment I heard, the grandparents lamented "they" had been too hard on him. Something was amiss whether they dealt with it or not.

We will have to wait and see who's blood it belongs to. It could be the boy's. It could be animal blood that he got on him when cleaning it to prepare it to be cooked

Truthfully, I hope this boy was not having to process raw meat in his underwear for the family to eat.

Why would the family throw this underwear away. Where they trying to protect the father or the child? Kind of hard to believe they didn't know it mattered.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I responded to your post and opinion concerning hunting and blood on clothes. As far as LE being in the home to gather investigative evidence, there is absolutely no excuse not to be as thorough as possible. This was a double homicide. LE screwed up and there is no excuse no matter how it is "painted". Sorry, whether this child was a suspect or not, *everything* should have been taken. No excuses. I cannot give LE a break on this one. They messed up royally.

IMHO and just sayin', as the norm....

I agree, they did drop the ball. I just don't think their minds could wrap around the idea that an 8 year old would do this.

It was much easier to think he was just an eye witness to the crimes.

imoo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Going with the idea the boy did commit these crimes, my issue is how easy it is to dismiss the boy as a spoiled monster that in a tiff decided to murder his father and his friend. One thing for sure, if true, the child did not spoil himself. If the father had spent all his time and energy with this boy and then when his life changed he didn't take the time to help his son adjust to these huge differences in both their lives, he should have. If the child was acting bratty, and this formerly doting father decided to hit around on the boy, and, worse yet, let other people do it for him, to convey he was not center stage anymore, I can see an immature, unbalanced child becoming defiant, feeling abandoned, frustrated, and reactionary. Obviously, no one knew how desperate or disturbed this child had become. That close relationship was not as close as they thought. Cherry picking a comment I heard, the grandparents lamented "they" had been too hard on him. Something was amiss whether they dealt with it or not.




Truthfully, I hope this boy was not having to process raw meat in his underwear for the family to eat.

Why would the family throw this underwear away. Where they trying to protect the father or the child? Kind of hard to believe they didn't know it mattered.

Why? I was always taught that whatever I killed I would have to help clean and prepare it for my mother to cook and I was doing this before this boy's age. If he had blood on his hands and he went to urinate or even defecate, the blood of the animal could have transfered to the inside of his underwear, if he did not wash his hands thoroughly before going to the bathroom, as some kids are known to do.

imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree, they did drop the ball. I just don't think their minds could wrap around the idea that an 8 year old would do this.

It was much easier to think he was just an eye witness to the crimes.

imoo

The very point was/is that LE did not know a thing. Whether they could wrap their minds around it or not, this was a double homicide. Business as their job is should have first and only that in this crime. I give them no breaks. They may have cost this investigation regardless if this child did this (I am still on the fence, no shocker) or not. LE has cost this case for everyone who is involved. How tragically sad is that....

 

[Linda7NJ]

Well I have been browsing other sites this morning since WS has been changing thier server and am amazed at how it seems other children have told their parents they were going to kill them, according to some of the posters. One also said her husband did slap the child's face, when it was said but not hard but just enough to get his attention. I am glad I have never had to deal with that with any of our five children.

And none of these people ever say they sought counseling for their children. I guess they just threw it off as the child being irate at the time.

I think a lot of children have issues today or think they do and rarely does the parents rush them to a head doctor but tries to cope with them the best they know how hoping it will blow over.

Yes, there seems to be more to this case, that is for sure. When this first happened we thought this child had no problems with anything whatsoever and was a good kid. IMO that is not turning out to be the case.

Spankings are not against the law. It only becomes abuse if a bruise is left and since the boy told them he was swatted five times, I am sure LE had him checked from top to bottom and found no evidence of abuse and his defense attorney did too.

imo

Honestly, I too was very shocked and appalled at the number of people that apparently have such disrespectful children!

 

[Openmind]

Why? I was always taught that whatever I killed I would have to help clean and prepare it for my mother to cook and I was doing this before this boy's age. If he had blood on his hands and he went to urinate or even defecate, the blood of the animal could have transfered to the inside of his underwear, if he did not wash his hands thoroughly before going to the bathroom, as some kids are known to do.

imoo

Seriously, OBE, I am not sure we can use our own life experiences as a benchmark to explain away the choices or actions of everyone involved in this case. Truthfully, I just can't see this supposedly indulged child cleaning and preparing meat for his family. My husband grew up hunting and processing meat, but at eight he wasn't standing around in his underwear chopping up meat.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Seriously, OBE, I am not sure we can use our own life experiences as a benchmark to explain away the choices or actions of everyone involved in this case. Truthfully, I just can't see this supposedly indulged child cleaning and preparing meat for his family. My husband grew up hunting and processing meat, but at eight he wasn't standing around in his underwear chopping up meat.

For some unknown reason you are totally ignoring what I said. I never said he was cleaning and preparing meat in his underwear, so I have no clue why you are making the statement you do. There was other blood stained clothing along with the underwear.........not just the underwear.

Anyone that has had a little boy knows that they can get their hands dirty from a myriad of reasons and it can be transfered onto the outside placket opening and inside their underwear when they go to the bathroom.

Why? This boy came from a hunting family and that rural area is known for people who hunt ,prepare and eat what they kill. I don't think they would be any different than millions of other hunting families who do the same.

imo

 

[Openmind]

For some unknown reason you are totally ignoring what I said. I never said he was cleaning and preparing meat in his underwear, so I have no clue why you are making the statement you do. There was other blood stained clothing along with the underwear.........not just the underwear.

Anyone that has had a little boy knows that they can get their hands dirty from a myriad of reasons and it can be transfered onto the outside placket opening and inside their underwear when they go to the bathroom.

Why? This boy came from a hunting family and that rural area is known for people who hunt ,prepare and eat what they kill. I don't think they would be any different than millions of other hunting families who do the same.

imo

You are absolutely correct. I did not understand your point, and I apologize. OK -- he was chopping up his meat, didn't clean his hands when he went to the bathroom, and transfered blood to his underwear. It is seems like a huge stretch and easlily dismissed as animal blood.

When my husband and son hunt, they gut their kill in the field, and then take it to be processed at a meat locker. Their clothes are immediately washed because bloody clothes stink something awful.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

You are absolutely correct. I did not understand your point, and I apologize. OK -- he was chopping up his meat, didn't clean his hands when he went to the bathroom, and transfered blood to his underwear. It is seems like a huge stretch and easily dismissed as animal blood.

When my husband and son hunt, they gut their kill in the field, and then take it to be processed at a meat locker. Their clothes are immediately washed because bloody clothes stink something awful.

LOL Well at least you finally understood what I was trying to say.

Well unfortunately we have seen the inside of that house and I don't think washing was a regular occurrence there and I have to admit that my kids have stuffed their clothes in closets before after wearing them from time to time. I guess they did it so their rooms would appear clean.

imoo

 

[SoobsinMI]

I agree, they did drop the ball. I just don't think their minds could wrap around the idea that an 8 year old would do this.

It was much easier to think he was just an eye witness to the crimes.

imoo

According to LE, within 24 hours of the crime, they thought he was the killer, and arrested him. Kinda hard to claim "he was a witness" as an excuse for not searching the home properly.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

According to LE, within 24 hours of the crime, they thought he was the killer, and arrested him. Kinda hard to claim "he was a witness" as an excuse for not searching the home properly.

This wasn't 24 hours later. Things had changed by then.

But the SW was gotten shortly after they arrived at the scene right after it happened. They didn't suspect him then or they would have done GSR testing immediately and would have looked through all of his closets looking for bloody clothing and other things pertaining to him.



imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

This wasn't 24 hours later. Things had changed by then.

But the SW was gotten shortly after they arrived at the scene right after it happened. They didn't suspect him then or they would have done GSR testing immediately and would have looked through all of his closets looking for bloody clothing and other things pertaining to him.



imoo

Sorry, but no. This home was a crime scene that LE had responsibility to take everything in their seach for evidence. It did not, nor should have it mattered, if the child was a suspect or not. They screwed up evidence research/recovering from the crime scene. No excuses.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sorry, but no. This home was a crime scene that LE had responsibility to take everything in their search for evidence. It did not, nor should have it mattered, if the child was a suspect or not. They screwed up evidence research/recovering from the crime scene. No excuses.

I agree, they should have suspected him from the very start. They should have listened real closely when he told them how he came upon their dead bodies and what he said he did while he was there and know that something did not add up.

Police often suspects the one that says they just happen to come upon the dead bodies.

imoo

 

[OrdinaryLife]

I agree, they should have suspected him from the very start. They should have listened real closely when he told them how he came upon their dead bodies and what he said he did while he was there and know that something did not add up.

Police often suspects the one that says they just happen to come upon the dead bodies.

imoo

I did not state that LE should have suspected the child from the beginning. I stated that this was a crime scene that should have been throughly investigated no matter who was a suspect. Please, do not twist my thoughts written as a post. They are clear as to my opinion.

Be well.