AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[Linda7NJ]

Totally get where you're coming from. But honestly, if the court truly believed he is a danger to ANYONE - he would be locked up. He's not and they really don't seem to be in any rush to get the situation resolved.

It's the way the system works. Nothing mysterious about it. Don't make the mistake of reading something into the situation that isn't there.

The boy needs to be evaluated before sentancing.

The court hasn't ordered and spent over 12k for evaluations just for the fun of it.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Your point about grandma- WRONG (maybe the gun wasn't even for her).
Your point about dugout- WRONG (where is evidence he even did this). Do you know if was just 'around' the ballpark? NOPE
Maybe some people are 'trying' to help with donations and such since she cannot get any benefits until after the fact from the courts. I imagine it is tough to get anything done with no job, and no real sourse of income.
Your point about classes- WRONG, no classes that day(s).
Your point about motion to revoke furlough- WRONG (it is rumor and inuendo, not actual facts).

Well, it seems you once again are quite off the mark. IMO

So it is a rumor that CA Whiting has filed a motion to stop the kid's furlough?:waitasec:

Could have fooled me. When I went to the Apache site and read it ........it sure seemed to be an official document to me.

imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's the way the system works. Nothing mysterious about it. Don't make the mistake of reading something into the situation that isn't there.

The boy needs to be evaluated before sentencing.

The court hasn't ordered and spent over 12k for evaluations just for the fun of it.

I think they have spent more than that haven't they? That is just to pay one of the doctors and they have two evaluating him. I cant believe the amount of money and time that is being spent on this one evaluation of this kid. WOW!

imo

 

[dgfred]

So it is a rumor that CA Whiting has filed a motion to stop the kid's furlough?:waitasec:

Could have fooled me. When I went to the Apache site and read it ........it sure seemed to be an official document to me.

imo

Oooooh, good one :clap: . No seriously, is that the only retort you could get out of that post?

I'm certain I posted that the accusations were mostly rumors, maybe your reading ability of post is on the decline... seems you could read the document ok though .

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oooooh, good one :clap: . No seriously, is that the only retort you could get out of that post?

I'm certain I posted that the accusations were mostly rumors, maybe your reading ability of post is on the decline... seems you could read the document ok though .

I asked you are question.

Where does it say that the accusations CA Whiting has listed are rumors?

Even Wood is not saying they are rumors. In fact how does anyone know they are rumors when they have not been entered before the court yet? I have never seen a DA file a motion based on rumors and I dont think this one did either.

As to your other blather........it doesn't even deserve a response..... If it makes you feel superior by being condescending and snarky........have at it. I couldn't care less.

imo

 

[dgfred]

I asked you are question.

Where does it say that the accusations CA Whiting has listed are rumors?

Even Wood is not saying they are rumors. In fact how does anyone know they are rumors when they have not been entered before the court yet? I have never seen a DA file a motion based on rumors and I dont think this one did either.

As to your other blather........it doesn't even deserve a response..... If it makes you feel superior by being condescending and snarky........have at it. I couldn't care less.

imo

Blather, condescending and snarky :hand: ..... pot calling kettle black imo.

Where does it say they are fact? Wood states he doesn't know where reports/accusations are coming from and will disprove them. Whiting will have to PROVE these are fact, which will not happen imo. I have never seen a DA file a motion based on rumors either, except in this case at this time... seems he was under pressure from somewhere, and folded under it.

 

[southcitymom]

...... I have never seen a DA file a motion based on rumors and I dont think this one did either....

(respectfully snipped)

And this is a really pertinent point (for me anyway), OBE. I have had respect for all the Court officers (Judge Pros, Defense) during these proceedings. On the limited information we have, it seems to me that they all really have had the child's best interest at heart - and that's a tough thing to balance in the face of their obvious belief that the child murdered these two men.

So, in light of my feelings, it's hard for me to believe that the Pros made this Motion without having some very real concerns about what is going on with the child and his caretaker(s). I see no reason for the Pros to try to stir up trouble and I am not enough of a conspiracy theorist to believe the Pros is being forced to file a bogus Motion. If the Motion is bogus and based on unsubstantiated rumor, the Judge will laugh ot out of the Court and maybe even slap the Pros, you know?

So, I think it's safe to assume that the Pros has genuine concerns. What is really going on behind these concerns - I just don't know - as I've said before, nothing I've seen so far leads me to believe that the mother is a complete disaster. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens and what, if any, info is released.

 

[dgfred]

Well it seems this motion was rushed under pressure from somewhere around town. Most DAs would make SURE of the facts before making a motion that was obviously prejudicial to the boy and mom, this isn't the case.
Concern for the kid about the 'dugout' incident doesn't seem so, more concern for the adults that were around the area and worried.
Concern about a gun in a home that CR would sometimes stay in, but the gun question might not be about having a gun in the household.
Concern about CR leaving the state... now come on, he wasn't going anywhere... it must of been necessary for him to ride with his mom for some of her personal business. Maybe she had permission anyway.
Concern about him not being schooled, nope... maybe school wasn't even being held that/those days.

So it doesn't seem to be concern for the boy, it seems more like a response to pressure or an attempt to further poison the public's opinion of the boy and his mom... does it not???

 

[southcitymom]

Well it seems this motion was rushed under pressure from somewhere around town. Most DAs would make SURE of the facts before making a motion that was obviously prejudicial to the boy and mom, this isn't the case.
Concern for the kid about the 'dugout' incident doesn't seem so, more concern for the adults that were around the area and worried.
Concern about a gun in a home that CR would sometimes stay in, but the gun question might not be about having a gun in the household.
Concern about CR leaving the state... now come on, he wasn't going anywhere... it must of been necessary for him to ride with his mom for some of her personal business. Maybe she had permission anyway.
Concern about him not being schooled, nope... maybe school wasn't even being held that/those days.

So it doesn't seem to be concern for the boy, it seems more like a response to pressure or an attempt to further poison the public's opinion of the boy and his mom... does it not???

It's hard for me to think the Pros wants to poison anyone's opinion of the child and has Mom - that simply hasn't been my experience of this case. But I guess we will learn more after the hearing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

(respectfully snipped)

And this is a really pertinent point (for me anyway), OBE. I have had respect for all the Court officers (Judge Pros, Defense) during these proceedings. On the limited information we have, it seems to me that they all really have had the child's best interest at heart - and that's a tough thing to balance in the face of their obvious belief that the child murdered these two men.

So, in light of my feelings, it's hard for me to believe that the Pros made this Motion without having some very real concerns about what is going on with the child and his caretaker(s). I see no reason for the Pros to try to stir up trouble and I am not enough of a conspiracy theorist to believe the Pros is being forced to file a bogus Motion. If the Motion is bogus and based on unsubstantiated rumor, the Judge will laugh ot out of the Court and maybe even slap the Pros, you know?

So, I think it's safe to assume that the Pros has genuine concerns. What is really going on behind these concerns - I just don't know - as I've said before, nothing I've seen so far leads me to believe that the mother is a complete disaster. I guess I'll just have to wait and see what happens and what, if any, info is released.

ITA! I have always found CA Whiting a very easygoing man that has wanted to do what is right in this case. For him to now step forward and file this motion I have no doubt he has grave concerns.

Whether the Judge thinks these thing are egregious enough to revoke the furlough that is yet to be determined by Roca but I do not believe for one second that Whiting filed this motion based on rumors.

He knew that Wood would want him to produce the evidence that he has alleged that has happened. Wood is not the one having to keep up with this boy so of course he wouldn't know that much about what DA Whiting is alleging.

imo

 

[mayfairlight]

Oooooh, good one :clap: . No seriously, is that the only retort you could get out of that post?

I'm certain I posted that the accusations were mostly rumors, maybe your reading ability of post is on the decline... seems you could read the document ok though .

That was uncalled for.
I visit this thread for updates. I don't agree with some people in this case, but that's not a reason to be rude or belittle them.

Thank you everyone for the updates:blowkiss:

 

[dgfred]

It's hard for me to think the Pros wants to poison anyone's opinion of the child and has Mom - that simply hasn't been my experience of this case. But I guess we will learn more after the hearing.

Well, the video tape 'interrogation' was first, then releasing evidence information that only showed the boy COULD have done it... not any that would question his part or show the possiblity that something was wrong in the rush to judgement was next. Now stating and filing in court that the mom is neglecting her duties and breaking the plea agreement, the boy is breaking the plea, the grandma wants a gun (afraid of the boy?) and each accusation probably has a simple explanation or is a rumor... thus poison of public opinion.
Now everyone has to wait until Tuesday for everything to be smoothed out, in the meantime- What does the public think? I can see from the reaction on boards that they are being thrown to the wolves, and not protected as it should be.

 

[dgfred]

That was uncalled for.
I visit this thread for updates. I don't agree with some people in this case, but that's not a reason to be rude or belittle them.

Thank you everyone for the updates:blowkiss:

I wasn't being rude, I was responding for a rude post... look back for yourself.
It was posted in a condescending way, as anyone can plainly see.
I for one am not going to sit back while the boy/mother is bashed on false information and inuendo, so I responded on equal terms.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Frankly, I have never seen so many excuses made for a murderer nor have I ever heard so many excuses made for a negligent mother.

Never before have I seen victims trashed and bashed like the boy's father and Tim. All based on NOTHING.

This case is certainly interesting!

 

[dgfred]

Frankly, I have never seen so many excuses made for a murderer nor have I ever heard so many excuses made for a negligent mother.

Never before have I seen victims trashed and bashed like the boy's father and Tim. All based on NOTHING.

This case is certainly interesting!

It sure is interesting, I have been hooked from day 1.

What trashing of VR and TR are you speaking of? I thought every allegation concerning them had at least a basis for the allegation.

As far as excuses, if something isn't true, then the response is not an excuse.
An explanation is not always an excuse, especially if one is not shown beyond a doubt as a murderer... and the other not shown as negligent imo.

 

[southcitymom]

Well, the video tape 'interrogation' was first, then releasing evidence information that only showed the boy COULD have done it... not any that would question his part or show the possiblity that something was wrong in the rush to judgement was next. Now stating and filing in court that the mom is neglecting her duties and breaking the plea agreement, the boy is breaking the plea, the grandma wants a gun (afraid of the boy?) and each accusation probably has a simple explanation or is a rumor... thus poison of public opinion.
Now everyone has to wait until Tuesday for everything to be smoothed out, in the meantime- What does the public think? I can see from the reaction on boards that they are being thrown to the wolves, and not protected as it should be.

I do understand that there are some who don't approve of the way this case has been handled in the justice system; I understand there are some who have questions as to whether or not this child actually killed these two men. But I don't fall into either of those camps. I see no evidence of institutionalized railroading of this child or trying to sour opinion against him - QUITE the opposite in fact.

As for what the public thinks, I can't of course speak to that as a whole. I am very empathetic to this boy and his family, but I am very empathetic to every single killer, rapist, pedophile, etc.... we discuss here. My experience with WS and other crime boards is that you will be hard-pressed to find many people who are going to vocally empathize with someone who they think has committed murder. I do think this boy has been treated more gently by the public at large than he would be if he was 16 or 22 or 43. Still - some people are freaked out by his crimes and, rightly or wrongly, that's to be expected.

 

[dgfred]

Well the video should NEVER had been released, at least at that time imo. And if evidence is going to be released, release it all- not just the parts that show he COULD be the one that did it. Say he was a 22 yr old... would he have been able to get a fair trial after video released (why would they do this anyway)? I'm freaked out by the entire thing.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Frankly, I have never seen so many excuses made for a murderer nor have I ever heard so many excuses made for a negligent mother.

Never before have I seen victims trashed and bashed like the boy's father and Tim. All based on NOTHING.

This case is certainly interesting!

It really has been strange somewhat and imo, it is certainly not the norm when we look at all the other cases being discussed here now and in the past. Like SCM states most people really don't like someone they think has killed or murdered someone. All it takes to realize that is go to each thread where there are numerous defendants and deceased victims being discussed.

The victims usually aren't thrown under the bus from the very beginning either but in this case for so long it was nothing but negative things posted about the true victims who cruelly lost their lives as if somehow that made their deaths acceptable and their lives less worthy. And to this day there is nothing showing that VR was ever abusive to his child and there is nothing showing that TR did anything to the defendant except try to come to his aide when he called him in.

imo

 

[Trino]

IMO the court and those involved are beginning to awaken to the fact that the boy should be incarcerated. The mother is living with a convicted felon - not a very good situation. The boy is not in regular school and may have too much time on his hands. I wonder how things are going with the mother taking care of both the boy and the boy's half-sister.

And, by the way, the boy is no longer 8 - will be 10 years old in six (?) months.

 

[Linda7NJ]

IMO the court and those involved are beginning to awaken to the fact that the boy should be incarcerated. The mother is living with a convicted felon - not a very good situation. The boy is not in regular school and may have too much time on his hands. I wonder how things are going with the mother taking care of both the boy and the boy's half-sister.

And, by the way, the boy is no longer 8 - will be 10 years old in six (?) months.

The little girl now lives with her father. The boy was to attend 4 hours of school a day at the detention center.