AZ - Timothy Romans, 39, & Vincent Romero, 29, slain, St Johns, 5 Nov 2008 - #5

[Linda7NJ]

None of us have ANY knowledge as to why VR had custody of CR. None of the "court documents" will reveal the details of what truly occurred there None of the "court documents" will reveal the details of what truly occurred there. So yes, you are forming your opinions largely on gossip. If Eryn was such a pathetic loser of a mother, WHY would the court have put CR in her care? Have you ever thought about that? I'm going to say - NO!

Yes, I gave it lots of thought.

I believe this judge wanted to make his own decision and view the divorce documents as you said, "None of the "court documents" will reveal the details of what truly occurred there."

I believe he gave his mother the benefit of the doubt. ( I wouldn't have)

I also believe the judge knows the evaluations will ferret out just how deeply disturbed this child is and the time with his mother will be brief. The only alternative was to keep him in detention or place him in therapeutic fostercare until sentencing. As a former therapeutic foster parent, I highly doubt there would be a foster home willing to take him.

I still believe this boy will be sentenced to a long term residential treatment facility.

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is my contention also, Openmind. If CR was so emotionally "detached" and truly evil, those nearest to him really dropped the ball in getting him the help he needed. VR SHOULD have known his own child was suffering the effects of being "abandoned" by his mother. Clearly, that never occurred to him, which leads me to believe it was NOT the case.

I know many young children AND adults who would be considered "manipulative." None of them are murderers - they have simply learned how to work the "system." That's not a felony.

IMO

There's a HUGE difference between simply being a manipulative child and and one that consistently MIMICS normal behavior while manipulating. The second's entire personality shown to others is a facade.

 

[dgfred]

Yes, I gave it lots of thought.

I believe this judge wanted to make his own decision and view the divorce documents as you said, "None of the "court documents" will reveal the details of what truly occurred there."

I believe he gave his mother the benefit of the doubt. ( I wouldn't have)

I also believe the judge knows the evaluations will ferret out just how deeply disturbed this child is and the time with his mother will be brief. The only alternative was to keep him in detention or place him in therapeutic fostercare until sentencing. As a former therapeutic foster parent, I highly doubt there would be a foster home willing to take him.

I still believe this boy will be sentenced to a long term residential treatment facility.

I believe the judge has seen that the boy is no danger to anyone, that is why he is living with his mom (all this time) after allegedly killing his dad.
Of course he is deeply disturbed either by seeing his father dead or the trauma that brought this on in the first place (which we know nothing about).

Nobody wants the boy in foster care anyway.

I still believe the boy will remain with his mom, as the judge ruled before.

 

[Openmind]

Yes, I gave it lots of thought.

I also believe the judge knows the evaluations will ferret out just how deeply disturbed this child is and the time with his mother will be brief. The only alternative was to keep him in detention or place him in therapeutic fostercare until sentencing. As a former therapeutic foster parent, I highly doubt there would be a foster home willing to take him.

Out of curiosity, what training does a therapeutic fostercaregiver receive?

I still believe this boy will be sentenced to a long term residential treatment facility.

The way this is shaping up, I think that is the best plan for this child.

 

[Openmind]

Have you ever had a loved one like a husband...wife...child murdered? I wonder if your compassion, empathy, and ability to forgive would be the same if it actually happened to you? Maybe something horrible has happened in your family and you are just a bigger or different kind of person then I am.

The killer of my youngest daughter wasn't 8 yrs old but she is as dead as she would have been if he had been 8 yrs. It wouldn't matter what age the killer was to me. I doubt if I could find any compassion or empathy in my heart for the killer of my child whether he was 8 yrs or 80 yrs. No one knows if that boy is mentally ill. That is what the eval is all about.

As far as forgiveness goes...I haven't reached that point either. I find it really hard to forgive a person who shot my baby girl point blank three times...once in the chest...once in the neck...and once in the head and knew exactly what he was doing. Thank God no one made excuses for what he did.

Bobbisangel, I truly regret your terrible loss.

 

[dgfred]

Out of curiosity, what training does a therapeutic fostercaregiver receive?



The way this is shaping up, I think that is the best plan for this child.

From what I've seen here, nothing I would want to know about .

Why do you say that, shaping up in what way?

 

[Openmind]

From what I've seen here, nothing I would want to know about .

Why do you say that, shaping up in what way?

I have a CASA case were they are looking at therapeutic foster care. I wanted to know what that ivolves from a person that has been the system.

If this child has truly deep rooted emotional issues, I would think he needs an environment where his recovery in structured, consistent, and trained on how to help him recover.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Well if they are so sure, release ALL the evidence... couldn't hurt at this point. Might be why there haven't been any OTHER suspects, it is still possible because they have only released tidbits that the boy being the shooter was 'consistant' - no beyond a doubt stuff at all. With the blunders and lack of experience shown no wonder they offered the plea, their choices were plea or loose the case imo.

Wood seemed very relieved that all the evidence would be sealed with the plea agreement. He has been totally mum and will not discuss any of the details against his client. That is his job.

imo

 

[dgfred]

In my opinion he didn't seem pleased at all, instead he seemed like the plea was their only 'real' choice... but still not what was wanted. He also said there was evidence that would probably exonerate the boy, but the evidence would probably be sealed forever and would never be seen. Of course he has been mum.

 

[dgfred]

I have a CASA case were they are looking at therapeutic foster care. I wanted to know what that ivolves from a person that has been the system.

If this child has truly deep rooted emotional issues, I would think he needs an environment where his recovery in structured, consistent, and trained on how to help him recover.

I would make sure of their credentials first of all.

So you think he should be accused of double murder, then released to his mother for a long period of time, then put back into permanent detention/therapy 'to help him recover'? It seems the judge thought with his mom was the best place to be, nothing has really changed since then.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Reactive Attachment Disorder. The symptoms and the causes.

http://www.attachment.org/pages_what_is_rad.php

Looking over both lists, I could see a case for this condition, but I sure can't see a child being able to hide this condition from attentive and involved adults. Nothing in this child's background would indicate anyone was concerned about any of these issues. I wonder how many of this child's fellow classmates in kindergarten were also checked as manipulative. It is not an unusual trait in children this young and especially in only children. If he does have this disorder, and it was ignored by his family, friends, and the school, it does not make them bad people, but it does indicate they were poorly informed or neglectful. Perhaps they were hoping it was a "stage" he would outgrow. If he had RAD, I would think spanking and slapping him would make his condition and lack of trust even worse. If he is suffering from RAD, he did not cause himself to have this condition, and if it went unchecked, that was not his fault either. Do people really think this child should, at eight, be responsible for somehow discerning for himself that he had serious problems with bonding, was angry and reactive, and he should have been dealing with these problems on his own.

I am working with a child with this disorder, and it was not hard to detect after I got to know the child. Sadly, children in foster care suffer from this, but it is treatable. With patience and hard work, children can be helped. You can't just hope they will somehow heal themselves.

His age was always a factor and always will. He is nine. He was eight when he committed the crime. In six month, he will be ten. One of the first questions asked about a child for any educational/emotional/social evaluation is their age because every month and every year makes a huge difference in their development. HUGE difference. And he sure isn't an adult.


I sure don't object to this child getting his father's benefits. It is blood money if he killed his father to get the benefits. I seriously doubt he had any idea what was going to happen when committed these acts. I would like to think there is some way to help this child to recover and have some sort of normal life. Hasn't there been enough pain and heartbreak from all this?

While I believe he has attachment issues, I do not believe this child has RAD.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I believe the judge has seen that the boy is no danger to anyone, that is why he is living with his mom (all this time) after allegedly killing his dad.
Of course he is deeply disturbed either by seeing his father dead or the trauma that brought this on in the first place (which we know nothing about).

Nobody wants the boy in foster care anyway.

I still believe the boy will remain with his mom, as the judge ruled before.

I tend to agree that the judge will allow him to remain with her.....for now. I think he'll severely admonish his mother, make some threats of detention but sentencing is right around the corner.

When all is said and done...that kid is going to a RTC IMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

Out of curiosity, what training does a therapeutic fostercaregiver receive?



The way this is shaping up, I think that is the best plan for this child.

As for the formal training, I had 60 hours before licencing and 20 hours yearly thereafter for licence renewal.

I believe it varies as to the level of therapeutic care a person is licenced for, what agency ( public or private ) and state requirements.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Bobbisangel, I truly regret your terrible loss.

Me too. How sad.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I have a CASA case were they are looking at therapeutic foster care. I wanted to know what that evolves from a person that has been the system.

If this child has truly deep rooted emotional issues, I would think he needs an environment where his recovery in structured, consistent, and trained on how to help him recover.

There are also all types of specialized care.

I was licenced for level 3 "behavioral". Primarily, I cared for long term placements of teenage girls through a specialized private agency. My home was their last chance before residential placement.

I honestly don't believe a therapeutic home is appropriate for a case such as this, or even for the short time between pleading and sentencing.

 

[Linda7NJ]

In my opinion he didn't seem pleased at all, instead he seemed like the plea was their only 'real' choice... but still not what was wanted. He also said there was evidence that would probably exonerate the boy, but the evidence would probably be sealed forever and would never be seen. Of course he has been mum.

Please point me to where he said "there was evidence that would probably exonerate the boy, but the evidence would probably be sealed forever and would never be seen."

And please clairify WHO is "he"

 

[Linda7NJ]

I would make sure of their credentials first of all.

So you think he should be accused of double murder, then released to his mother for a long period of time, then put back into permanent detention/therapy 'to help him recover'? It seems the judge thought with his mom was the best place to be, nothing has really changed since then.

IMO That kid should have been under house arrest and fitted with an ankle bracelet. If it were up to me, he would have only been allowed to attend school, and shrink appoinments while his mother had him between plea and sentencing.

 

[Kat]

Linda, at the age of 7 and half my oldest step-daughter was diagnosed with RAD-Uninhibited Type. She was left untreated and is now an adult. I don't see any indication from what I've read about this young man that he has RAD of either type. I agree with you.

I'd appreciate no questions about this please (to any who read this post). It's still a very painful topic and it isn't over.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Thank you for your insight, I do understand how painful & difficult a RAD dx can be on everyone around the diagnosed person.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Reactive Attachment Disorder. The symptoms and the causes.

http://www.attachment.org/pages_what_is_rad.php

Looking over both lists, I could see a case for this condition, but I sure can't see a child being able to hide this condition from attentive and involved adults. Nothing in this child's background would indicate anyone was concerned about any of these issues. I wonder how many of this child's fellow classmates in kindergarten were also checked as manipulative. It is not an unusual trait in children this young and especially in only children. If he does have this disorder, and it was ignored by his family, friends, and the school, it does not make them bad people, but it does indicate they were poorly informed or neglectful. Perhaps they were hoping it was a "stage" he would outgrow. If he had RAD, I would think spanking and slapping him would make his condition and lack of trust even worse. If he is suffering from RAD, he did not cause himself to have this condition, and if it went unchecked, that was not his fault either. Do people really think this child should, at eight, be responsible for somehow discerning for himself that he had serious problems with bonding, was angry and reactive, and he should have been dealing with these problems on his own.

I am working with a child with this disorder, and it was not hard to detect after I got to know the child. Sadly, children in foster care suffer from this, but it is treatable. With patience and hard work, children can be helped. You can't just hope they will somehow heal themselves.

His age was always a factor and always will. He is nine. He was eight when he committed the crime. In six month, he will be ten. One of the first questions asked about a child for any educational/emotional/social evaluation is their age because every month and every year makes a huge difference in their development. HUGE difference. And he sure isn't an adult.


I sure don't object to this child getting his father's benefits. It is blood money if he killed his father to get the benefits. I seriously doubt he had any idea what was going to happen when committed these acts. I would like to think there is some way to help this child to recover and have some sort of normal life. Hasn't there been enough pain and heartbreak from all this?

IMO I believe this boy knew exactly was was going to happen, long before he ever pulled the trigger the first time. This child will never be normal, he's missing a conscience ...in my opinion.

In the beginning, I liked intermittent explosive disorder ............now I don't think so. I believe he's a budding psychopath...can you even imagine the possibilities, if I am right? He plotted and murdered two grown men and had his alibi all ready at EIGHT!!!