Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Errrr]

We have all seen the stained board removed from the barn, and some have made the connection to this case. News also showed several LE moving a large amount of hay. Does anyone know if it was from the barn?

I recall DM hiring people to remove the hay or straw from the barn and spread it around the fields at one point. I think the bizarre excuse was that it was a fire hazard(like every single barn). Maybe cadaver dogs can identify the parts of interest in the field? I expect there will be a lot of time on forensics in coming weeks.

 

[Errrr]

You are correct that self-harm is not exclusive to BPD however working in acute psychiatry for 20+ years I can count only a handful of times that it was indicative of an axis II disorder. You are also spot on about DBT. I read that the long wait list for treatment at CAMH was likely their DBT program. It's 8 months where I'm from.

BPD seems like an acronym for both BiPolar and Borderline Personality. What is DBT? Her self harming appeared more manipulative than any real attempt at self injury. There is no assurance that she was even correctly diagnosed for her prescriptions to be indicative of her problem. Drs hand out drugs like a game of craps.

 

[Errrr]

I am sure there are many inconsistencies with CN testimony. There are things she knew and could have helped the police open an investigation to Laura s disappearance, but she did not talk , it shows who she is and I am sure she is a pathological liar. That is why I can never see her be able to become a dr. unless it is in another country with slack acceptance criteria to get into medical school. DM told SL that he never had a relationship with Laura, when we know that also a blatant lie.

And did you get a look at that bedroom of hers? If ever there were a surgeon to sew you up with tools inside, she would be that!

 

[SnooperDuper]

BPD seems like an acronym for both BiPolar and Borderline Personality. What is DBT? Her self harming appeared more manipulative than any real attempt at self injury. There is no assurance that she was even correctly diagnosed for her prescriptions to be indicative of her problem. Drs hand out drugs like a game of craps.

DBT = dialectical behaviour therapy.

 

[SnooperDuper]

You're correct, deferential dxs are always important to consider. There is no compelling evidence of BAD was the point I was trying to express. Rapid cycling BAD has been the soup de jour of psychiatry over recent years that typically turns out to be BPD. In the bigger picture, it should have no impact on her right to live. I was simply trying to offer clarity on possible dxs.

But diagnosing LB with BAD or BPD is giving a horoscope based on symptoms and it totally ignores the fact that she had drug problems and relationship problems that could explain her distress, IMO.

Why diagnose her with an illness "cause unknown" when we know that drugs and bullies were messing her up?

I don't know how much having a label helped her and I think the doctor's pills just added to her mess.

BTW here is how to become a verified professional (e.g., we have a pharmacist here, RandomName479!)

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...n-Process-for-Professional-or-Insider-Posters

 

[SnooperDuper]

DM is using psychiatry to deflect the responsibility for LB's distress, IMO.

First, he takes a bunch of concrete problems (drugs, bullying) and makes them abstract ("borderline personality disorder")

Then he blames the "borderline personality disorder" on LB's home and upbringing.

If you buy into the mental health diagnosis IMO you are buying into DM's deflection of responsibility.

 

[Obes99]

DBT = dialectical behaviour therapy.

BPD is borderline personality disorder
BAD is bipolar affective disorder (manic depression)
DBT is dialectical behavioural therapy and the treatment of choice for BPD

 

[Obes99]

DM is using psychiatry to deflect the responsibility for LB's distress, IMO.

First, he takes a bunch of concrete problems (drugs, bullying) and makes them abstract ("borderline personality disorder")

Then he blames the "borderline personality disorder" on LB's home and upbringing.

If you buy into the mental health diagnosis IMO you are buying into DM's deflection of responsibility.

I agree that DM is exploiting her MH issues to cast doubt.

Without a thorough psych examination it's difficult to determine if she turned to drugs because of BPD and in effort to self medicate OR the drugs she began using caused her erratic behaviour.

 

[Obes99]

You are correct that self-harm is not exclusive to BPD however working in acute psychiatry for 20+ years I can count only a handful of times that it was indicative of an axis II disorder. You are also spot on about DBT. I read that the long wait list for treatment at CAMH was likely their DBT program. It's 8 months where I'm from.

Correction-wasn't indicative of an axis II and I read INTO the long wait list

 

[gremlingrrl]

Pretty common that mental health issues come to the surface during late teens or 20s.

Personally, I've witnessed several women experience onset of symptoms and subsequent diagnosis (or at least awareness of symptoms, prompting seeking of care) in their mid- to late-30s. Likewise, I can think of a number of women in that age group who never had an issue with misuse or excess alcohol/substance abuse until well into their 30s.

Not sure where I'm going with this, other than to acknowledge that the whole ball of mental health and substance issues are beyond complex, and the same can be said of diagnosis and treatment.

It can take years to get a clear diagnosis, and even longer to get meds right.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I agree that DM is exploiting her MH issues to cast doubt.

Without a thorough psych examination it's difficult to determine if she turned to drugs because of BPD and in effort to self medicate OR the drugs she began using caused her erratic behaviour.

But we know her history - she was a responsible, happy, dependable young woman until she started running with a fast crowd.

 

[kaRN]

She would have been warned against mixing her Rx drugs with anything by both her doctor and the pharmacist. The assumption is if you seek help to get better, you'll follow medical advice. She didn't.

 

[winter2017]

She came from a family that cared about her. They sounded like the average family, not perfect but what family is. If anyone had an abnormal family it was DM. There are things being said that both parents were raving alcoholics and that he spent time living with an uncle. The mother seems a bit off her rocker just from what has been reported of her. The father it looks like became reclusive as he got older. It is true that neglect and childhood abuse can contribute to BPD. I am not a mental health professional and sounds like some on this forum are. I have read that childhood troubles can contribute to BPD.

 

[winter2017]

She would definitely be the mad dr. One person on another forum said that she has rehabilitated, hahaha, seriously doubt that. I think she is a psychopath, she is cold, calculating and how she was at the first trial with the family of Tim Bosma present can only be described as an appalling display of ignorance imaginable. No remorse, the only remorse she had was that she was charged. Sheesh, I really hope she has left the country, good riddance and please don't come back. She won't be able to get into the U.S.

 

[Errrr]

She would have been warned against mixing her Rx drugs with anything by both her doctor and the pharmacist. The assumption is if you seek help to get better, you'll follow medical advice. She didn't.

I don't understand what you mean? Do you mean that if you don't do drugs you won't get picked on for incineration?

 

[SnooperDuper]

She would have been warned against mixing her Rx drugs with anything by both her doctor and the pharmacist. The assumption is if you seek help to get better, you'll follow medical advice. She didn't.

That assumes that people that do drugs are always able to just say no based on willpower alone, like snap.

If they had that superpower, they likely would not be seeking help.

 

[gremlingrrl]

She would have been warned against mixing her Rx drugs with anything by both her doctor and the pharmacist. The assumption is if you seek help to get better, you'll follow medical advice. She didn't.

Yes, that guidance would be provided, but to imply that her continued use of alcohol and/or rec drugs means she didn't truly want to get better is over-simplified. Ever tried to change a habit cold-turkey, particularly one you are tied to physically?

 

[gremlingrrl]

That assumes that people that do drugs are always able to just say no based on willpower alone, like snap.

If they had that superpower, they likely would not be seeking help.

Bingo.

 

[Obes99]

She came from a family that cared about her. They sounded like the average family, not perfect but what family is. If anyone had an abnormal family it was DM. There are things being said that both parents were raving alcoholics and that he spent time living with an uncle. The mother seems a bit off her rocker just from what has been reported of her. The father it looks like became reclusive as he got older. It is true that neglect and childhood abuse can contribute to BPD. I am not a mental health professional and sounds like some on this forum are. I have read that childhood troubles can contribute to BPD.

Bang on!

 

[Obes99]

But we know her history - she was a responsible, happy, dependable young woman until she started running with a fast crowd.

Coincidentally she was at a typical age of onset for many MH disorders which makes it even more difficult to tease apart.