Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[hugsherman]

About the police searching Smich home- at one point they thought there were 3 suspects in the Bosma case. If the house was searched before they ruled out the possibility of a 3rd party I think they would be well advised to consider the possibility s/he could be present. MOO of course.

 

[Velma]

There was actually a spring found at the farm at the burn site. But I think it came from the burnt seats in Bosma's truck.

I remember this as well, but the question I’m pondering is: did we assume the spring(s) were from the seat, or was it officially stated as such? At the time, we had no idea that LB and a mattress might come into play, so I wonder if we assumed they must be from the seat.

 

[Inspector_North]

I remember this as well, but the question I’m pondering is: did we assume the spring(s) were from the seat, or was it officially stated as such? At the time, we had no idea that LB and a mattress might come into play, so I wonder if we assumed they must be from the seat.

LE enforcement can easily determine if it is. Was a spring missing from one of the recovered burnt seats? Was the spring the correct size?

 

[Kamille]

It depends. If the location they have obtained a search warrant for may have dangerous occupants, then yes they try to surprise and over power. But in this case, MS was already in custody. IMO.

I remember that day because I was on here and the news was coming in fast and furious. My recollection was that MS was NOT in custody and there were reports that he had fled via the backyard. They did not take a battering ram to the front door to serve a search warrant when the suspect was already in custody IMO.

 

[Typhoo1961]

If MS takes the stand then it is possible he will say that he knows DM killed Laura and that he was not there in the house when it happened.

I believe under Canadian law that makes you just as guilty as doing the deed. (If I am wrong someone please correct me)

 

[Tilly23]

I remember that day because I was on here and the news was coming in fast and furious. My recollection was that MS was NOT in custody and there were reports that he had fled via the backyard. They did not take a battering ram to the front door to serve a search warrant when the suspect was already in custody IMO.

I would think that even if MS was in custody, LE would not want to announce their arrival. Any delay opens the possibility that occupants of the house may have destroyed evidence.

They have to arrive and take control of the premises immediately. They can't ask nicely and then respond only when the occupant doesn't appear to be complying. If they did so, and it turned out that during those moments some occupants in the house were destroying evidence while LE was waiting for someone to answer the doorbell, there would be no way to fix that. So I don't think they can risk it.

It is shocking though, and I imagine MS's mother was stunned.

MOO

 

[canadiangirl]

I remember that day because I was on here and the news was coming in fast and furious. My recollection was that MS was NOT in custody and there were reports that he had fled via the backyard. They did not take a battering ram to the front door to serve a search warrant when the suspect was already in custody IMO.

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...sma-murder-case-to-plead-not-guilty-1.1305972

Shortly after Smich's arrest, police moved in on a home in Oakville owned by Maria Smich-Grygorcewicz on Montrose Abbey Drive. Hamilton police confirmed the search at that address was related to the Bosma case.


ETA I do however recall something about him running....
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

I am not convinced that the red suitcase is going to end up being incriminating. I think the seizure of the red bag is why DM was so fixated on the colour of Laura’s luggage. No one, who saw her with her bags, in the days before her death, noticed a red bag. IIRC, the testimony was that the luggage was black or dark blue. I don’t know, at this point, how the bag came to be in his possession.

A couple of points about the suitcase in MS's possession.

1) LB was not a friend of MS's
2) While we don't know how and when the suitcase made its way to MS's mother's house, we do know that SL only gave the IPad to LB shortly before she disappeared. It's up to MS's defense to explain the how and when, but enforces MS had more than one item of LB's. While not incriminating on its own, like the TB trial, things are accumulating.

IMO

 

[dar107]

Here is the article about MS arrest

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/...sma-murder-case-to-plead-not-guilty-1.1305972

Shortly after Smich's arrest, police moved in on a home in Oakville owned by Maria Smich-Grygorcewicz on Montrose Abbey Drive. Hamilton police confirmed the search at that address was related to the Bosma case

Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

MS had been under surveillance a few days before his arrest and was in custody at the time they searched his home according to this article.

 

[winter2017]

We don't know what the police were thinking and what info they had, there was a gun involved in this murder so they don't know where that gone is and who is in the house. Try t o put yourself in the shoes of the police and you have no idea what information they had before going to the house, maybe they thought there could be another suspect at the house. I am not going to bash the police, kicking down doors is a routine thing when they are sometimes carrying out an investigation. They saw the mother but they may have been told another person could be there, we have no idea. I am saying that they routinely kick down doors, and a lot depends on the type of case it is.

 

[Georgeo]

I remember this as well, but the question I’m pondering is: did we assume the spring(s) were from the seat, or was it officially stated as such? At the time, we had no idea that LB and a mattress might come into play, so I wonder if we assumed they must be from the seat.

Yes, I don't recall that spring being positively identified as being from Bosma truck.

 

[Inspector_North]

ETA I do however recall something about him running....
Sent from my SM-T320 using Tapatalk

Running when they arrested him?

IIRC, he was walking with his girlfriend, and had a BMX bike. They surprised him and pinned him down. Officers also restrained Marlena, and MS shouted at her not to say anything.

 

[winter2017]

she must have had some type of bag if she thought she was going on a trip, but don't know what the description of bag would be. Maybe she had that bag red one with her at different places she stayed, I guess they would have to have someone identify they saw that bag with her.

 

[Fionn]

A couple of points about the suitcase in MS's possession.

1) LB was not a friend of MS's
2) While we don't know how and when the suitcase made its way to MS's mother's house, we do know that SL only gave the IPad to LB shortly before she disappeared. It's up to MS's defense to explain the how and when, but enforces MS's had more than one item of LB's. While not incriminating on its own, like the TB trial, things are accumulating.

IMO

I agree with you completely, I just think the suitcase is more easily explained away. Despite all of DM’s “Perry Masoning” about the colour I’m not sure that is going to end up making a difference and I kind of enjoy that what he may feel is going to be a big “Aha” moment is going to fall flat. The suitcase, to me, isn’t as big an obstacle as the Ipad. I feel, it is the most incriminating piece of evidence at this point and not easily explained away. Only my opinion, of course.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[winter2017]

I have heard of cases where they go in the middle of the night to catch people off guard, probably so they cannot destroy evidence. They will go and kick down the door in the middle of night. MS brought this to his family, it was unpleasant, but the horror of having an innocent man with a small child shot while going on a test drive is far more of a horror. MS did not care about the innocent man he helped to murder and he did not care very much about his sick mother because of course she would be dragged in , he was living at her home off and on. AT least they did not show up in the middle of night to do the search.

 

[Kamille]

MS had been under surveillance a few days before his arrest and was in custody at the time they searched his home according to this article.

And according to this article...

Mark Smich, who is known to police, was taken into custody in Oakville, on Dorval Dr., north of Wycroft Dr., shortly after 10 a.m. Wednesday. Police also executed another search warrant, one of 15 they have now conducted, at a house on nearby Montrose Abbey Dr. that is believed to be Smich’s home.

Neighbours said they saw heavily armed tactical officers enter the two-storey brick house around 9:30 a.m.

http://www.napaneeguide.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

So it's hard to say. Like I said, I heard that day that tactical members were running into the forest behind the home looking for him. It was obviously a different team that found him on the overpass.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

I agree with you completely, I just think the suitcase is more easily explained away. Despite all of DM’s “Perry Masoning” about the colour I’m not sure that is going to end up making a difference and I kind of enjoy that what he may feel is going to be a big “Aha” moment is going to fall flat. The suitcase, to me, isn’t as big an obstacle as the Ipad. I feel, it is the most incriminating piece of evidence at this point and not easily explained away. Only my opinion, of course.

Yes, from DM's angle, I'm not sure why he is exerting so much time and energy when the suitcase is in MS's possession. Maybe because he can't separate his involvement like he tried in the TB case when he wrote to CN that it was MS, and his street friends. So either we are going to hear something more about the suitcase, or DM needs to indirectly defend MS because DM is MS's link to LB.

 

[Fionn]

she must have had some type of bag if she thought she was going on a trip, but don't know what the description of bag would be. Maybe she had that bag red one with her at different places she stayed, I guess they would have to have someone identify they saw that bag with her.

Agreed. I don’t think that they can or will dispute that it’s her bag DM could easily say that she gave it to him long before and he gave it to MS.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Inspector_North]

And according to this article...


http://www.napaneeguide.com/2013/05/22/tim-bosma-case-hamilton-police-make-second-arrest

So it's hard to say. Like I said, I heard that day that tactical members were running into the forest behind the home looking for him. It was obviously a different team that found him on the overpass.

MOO

Strange, because he was under surveillance for several days, except the weekend of the wedding.

 

[Fionn]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk