Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[winter2017]

I am a bit confused then Typhoo1961. If you are not present at the murder but meet up after and they said he did not go to the farm with DM to take body there, but then 23 days later he helped DM dispose of the body into the incinerator, at Tim Bosma s murder I thought MS took the stand to say he did not shoot Tim Bosma hoping he would not be convicted of M1. By blaming the shooting on DM was he not hoping to not get convicted of M1? I was told he was convicted of M1 because he helped to incinerate the body.

 

[Fionn]

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[canadiangirl]

Running when they arrested him?

IIRC, he was walking with his girlfriend, and had a BMX bike. They surprised him and pinned him down. Officers also restrained Marlena, and MS shouted at her not to say anything.

I'd have to go back and look but remember he had a black eye or something? Maybe I'm misremembering.... I'll have to search it

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[gremlingrrl]

I myself felt I heard a strong eastern European accent when she yelled at the camera man

I was at one of the pre-trial motions she attended. She was early, and mistook the door being locked (before 9:45) as it having been locked because the session had commenced. She was noticeably frustrated and commented out loud (to herself? to the other spectator and to me, also waiting?) her surprise and worry that she wouldn't be able to enter. Anyhow, that's a long-winded way of arriving at my observation that her accent sounded eastern European.

 

[Kamille]

Yes, from DM's angle, I'm not sure why he is exerting so much time and energy when the suitcase is in MS's possession. Maybe because he can't separate his involvement like he tried in the TB case when he wrote to CN that it was MS, and his street friends. So either we are going to hear something more about the suitcase, or DM needs to indirectly defend MS because DM is MS's link to LB.

Other than the one odd picture of him beside a helicoptor with a red suitcase shaped like a shell, DM seems to be fixated with changing the colour of the large bag on wheels that LB supposedly had with her from black to blue. Not sure what that is all about. :waitasec:

 

[canadiangirl]

I was at one of the pre-trial motions she attended. She was early, and mistook the door being locked (before 9:45) as it having been locked because the session had commenced. She was noticeably frustrated and commented out loud (to herself? to the other spectator and to me, also waiting?) her surprise and worry that she wouldn't be able to enter. Anyhow, that's a long-winded way of arriving at my observation that her accent sounded eastern European.

Her name is in the MSM article. She is Polish so you're correct

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[Inspector_North]

I was told he was convicted of M1 because he helped to incinerate the body.

I think it was more than that. He was trying to convince the jurors that he ...

1) Didn't shoot TB, and it was DM. But many things he said on the stand still left doubt. Like his late night ride to bury the gun, and couldn't remember.
2) That he just cleaned the mess, and didn't assist loading TB's body in the Eliminator as he had a bad shoulder. This was to get off of the lesser charge.

He told a great story, but the Crown put enough doubt in it to allow the jurors to find both guilty of M1. He messed up when he said that they were only casing out the Truck that day, and were going to come back later, like days later. However they texted to bring a change of clothes for the test drive.

They were both found guilty of M1 because the Crown proved both were there when TB was shot, and they both planned it. Lots of other evidence all contributed to the correct verdict. IMO

 

[dar107]

LB apparently had a few bags/suitcases she lugged from place to place so good chance the other genius DM kept one at his house too. Or some other belongings of hers. Wont be surprised to hear it when the searches of his residences comes up.

 

[dar107]

Re the trial so ahead of schedule. Do I recall correctly that in tbe TB trial the jury seemed to be sent out of the room repeatedly almost everyday? Maybe they were expecting alot more of that again with DM defending himself. There has not seemed to be much if that going on this time..

 

[gremlingrrl]

MS brought this to his family, it was unpleasant, but the horror of having an innocent man with a small child shot while going on a test drive is far more of a horror. MS did not care about the innocent man he helped to murder and he did not care very much about his sick mother because of course she would be dragged in , he was living at her home off and on.

He didn't seem particularly concerned about the position he was putting his mother and sisters in by dumping the gun he and DM had just used in a horrific and highly-publicised murder in the garage of the family home. Even more telling is that he did this AFTER DM had been arrested and there was little if any doubt that the heat was on him, too.

 

[Georgeo]

Both of them show zero regard for human life, rules, societal norms, the law, right from wrong, yet now they are exercising their "right" to a fair trial. How fair is that?

 

[Tealgrove]

Re the trial so ahead of schedule. Do I recall correctly that in tbe TB trial the jury seemed to be sent out of the room repeatedly almost everyday? Maybe they were expecting alot more of that again with DM defending himself. There has not seemed to be much if that going on this time..

And my guess is that a lot of that had to do with evidence that may have pertained to this current trial.

MOO

 

[gremlingrrl]

Re the trial so ahead of schedule. Do I recall correctly that in tbe TB trial the jury seemed to be sent out of the room repeatedly almost everyday? Maybe they were expecting alot more of that again with DM defending himself. There has not seemed to be much if that going on this time..

A journalist who attended most of the TB trial commented to me that it seemed that a lot of the legal arguments, and a good chunk of testimony, should have been cleared up in pre-trial motions, and presented as agreed statements of fact, respectively.

My impression from sitting in on some of the LB pre-trial, as well as the trial itself, is that Justice Code has run a tight ship (no doubt influenced by the fact that DM is self-representing, and so Code has been able to both anticipate and efficiently manage situations that could quickly go sideways). IMO that's why we're seeing things run more smoothly this time.

Additional ETA: Unfortunately, with the spotty live twitter coverage, the fact that the trial is being well-run wrt both the judge and the Crown is not coming across vey clearly.

 

[deugirtni]

MS had been under surveillance a few days before his arrest and was in custody at the time they searched his home according to this article.

Agreed. From the article linked above:

"Shortly after Smich's arrest, police moved in on a home in Oakville owned by Maria Smich-Grygorcewicz on Montrose Abbey Drive. Hamilton police confirmed the search at that address was related to the Bosma case."

but the article also stated that LE were still looking for a 3rd suspect at the time, so they couldn't be sure what they would be walking into; sounds like they were too gruff with MS's mom, but they didn't know what she was like herself:

"Police allege the suspects are the two men who Bosma took for the test drive. The search continues for at least one other suspect."

 

[deugirtni]

she must have had some type of bag if she thought she was going on a trip, but don't know what the description of bag would be. Maybe she had that bag red one with her at different places she stayed, I guess they would have to have someone identify they saw that bag with her.

From the sounds of previous and recent testimony, it seems that LB was lugging all kinds of luggage around with her in addition to her dog; then she apparently went home to drop off the dog and money, but it didn't say anything about her having also dropped off luggage (which would have been odd if she said she was planning a trip); so where is all the other luggage, and yes, it would have certainly been helpful if the Crown had asked these witnesses who saw LB with all of her various luggage, if any could be described, and one bag happened to be a red roots bag on wheels.
Although MS wasn't friends with LB, LB *was* friends with DM, and DM was friends with MS, so for MS to end up with one of LB's bags in his house can't really prove anything, since he could have had it in his house for years or months... unless a witness testified that she had that bag with her just before she went to DM's. jmo.

 

[gremlingrrl]

And my guess is that a lot of that had to do with evidence that may have pertained to this current trial.

MOO

That, too, quite possibly. But what was and wasn't admissible should have been hammered out in the pre-trial.

 

[deugirtni]

Other than the one odd picture of him beside a helicoptor with a red suitcase shaped like a shell, DM seems to be fixated with changing the colour of the large bag on wheels that LB supposedly had with her from black to blue. Not sure what that is all about. :waitasec:

I must have missed some testimony in regard to black or blue luggage.. can you elaborate as to what you're talking about above? Has someone testified as to the color of LB's luggage she was toting around with her in the days leading up to July 3? Did DM say something different about its color? TY!

 

[deugirtni]

I am a bit confused then Typhoo1961. If you are not present at the murder but meet up after and they said he did not go to the farm with DM to take body there, but then 23 days later he helped DM dispose of the body into the incinerator, at Tim Bosma s murder I thought MS took the stand to say he did not shoot Tim Bosma hoping he would not be convicted of M1. By blaming the shooting on DM was he not hoping to not get convicted of M1? I was told he was convicted of M1 because he helped to incinerate the body.

You can't get convicted of M1 by helping to incinerate a dead body, that is a different charge. If someone isn't present during a murder (and it can't be proven otherwise), I don't think they can be convicted of first degree murder in that case.

 

[Night_is_Mine]

You can't get convicted of M1 by helping to incinerate a dead body, that is a different charge. If someone isn't present during a murder (and it can't be proven otherwise), I don't think they can be convicted of first degree murder in that case.

I saw a case in Ontario where a kid was convicted of m1. He gave some friends info on his neighbor having cash at home
They came killed the neighbor and kid got m1

 

[dar107]

Hopefully they bring in someone who ties the roots bag and anything DM might of kept to being in LB possession those last weeks. Maybe Julia..tho it seems were past that phase.