Babcock Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #4

[gremlingrrl]

It just doesn't look right. He's off balance like he was leaning.

He is leaning - on the plane.

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Sleuth of the day(yesterday) with an assist #191 Errrrr and Night _is _mine #175 about why DM would want to go after MS. Page #13

Hi Mimimic. Could you please decipher this for me, lol? Thank you very much!


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[LadyL]

:shame::facepalm:

These days he's VIP in a fancy court services wagon.

 

[Errrr]

As You Already Know

Stay out of sight. As per the plan:
https://genius.com/Krs-one-as-you-already-know-lyrics

 

[MrsThreadgoode]

Agreed re. the DNA evidence; I have been thinking exactly the same thing. Many people, it seems, are holding out hope that there is going to be a damning DNA presentation before the Crown rests, but if that were the case, its existence would very likely have been included in the Crown's opening.

IMHO, DNA evidence would be good, but most definitely not at all needed. There were centuries of trials pre DNA knowledge, and jurors relied on logic, reasoning ... simply connecting the dots.

The dots are all connected now. MS and DM guilty as charged.


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[mimimic]

I can try!lol. Lately, there have been a few "quotes of the day" posts. Thought I'd pick a "sleuth of the day" In this one it hinged on a perceived (by me) assist Posted by #175 and #191 used it, to Sleuth a possible reason.

Sorry! Just thought it was good and it makes me wonder what DM is holding back here. I do realize it may not be the actual sleuth of the day haha- was looking to add a more serious vote than the bada bing bada bang "quote of the day" get me; or no?

Also I am under the impression that it's not possible to bring quotes over from previous threads.

Hi Mimimic. Could you please decipher this for me, lol? Thank you very much!


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[Nakasaka]

Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 4 10:00 am Millard texts Smich: "I rolled my first spliff." [Possibly refers to rolling up the blue tarp] Question - He spent night with the body in his bedroom , then rolled it into the blue tarp, carried it into his car - all by himself in day light and nobody saw and heard anything? Then he plugged iPad at 10:43 , took off and disposed LB cell phone at around 11 at Indian Grove Miss ....google said it is 14 min drive from Maple Gate Etobicoke....Is this an accurate picture of events on July 4 morning?

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 410:00 amMillard texts Smich: "I rolled my first spliff." [Possibly refers to rolling up the blue tarp] Question - He spent night with the body in his bedroom , then rolled it into the blue tarp, carried it into his car - all by himself in day light and nobody saw and heard anything? Then he plugged iPad at 10:43 , took off and disposed LB cell phone at around 11 at Indian Grove Miss ....google said it is 14 min drive from Maple Gate Etobicoke....Is this an accurate picture of events on July 4 morning?

No one really knows what happened that night. That is the crowns challenge. They don't know how or when LB died. Everything is based off the phone data.

That said MS was there, he may have helped with the carrying and rolling of the tarp.

 

[Nakasaka]

Does not look like MS was helping DM to put body in the tarp otherwise why DM would have texted him about rolling his first spiff...he did not ask MS to come over for help neither - help to carry body to the car....

 

[musicaljoke]

No one really knows what happened that night. That is the crowns challenge. They don't know how or when LB died. Everything is based off the phone data.

That said MS was there, he may have helped with the carrying and rolling of the tarp.

Indeed. On July 4th, MS woke up at 3:20pm. He likely didn't get any sleep the night before, which was the night that LB was allegedly murdered. At 10:00 am, when MS had headed to bed, DM sent MS a text that said, "Rolled my first spliff." If MS had the understanding that DM was speaking about drugs, then MS' response likely would have been, "How was your first spliff?

However, MS responds with, "How's the spliff?" Present tense, no possessive pronouns. I believe that the two worked together and that MS knew exactly what DM was talking about.

 

[JuneBug67]

What are the chances that “spliff” just meant spliff? DM texts “I rolled my first spliff” at 10 am, and if one was a wake and bake type, that would be a reasonable time and could be read as an invitation if MS was awake. When MS wakes up mid afternoon he texts saying that he’s up now, and then a second text “How’s. the spliff.” Could it just be a tendency of MS’ to answer texts hours later without particular attention to when the conversation was started? We possibly saw that with his 9:14 am “Aight” which was presumably a reply to DM’s 2:10 am text that he would come talk to him in the morning.

It seems to me you might not think of calling a body in a tarp a spliff until after you actually did the rolling and ended up with the visual. DM doesn’t take or send a photo with that 10 am text, so it’s worth wondering if or how DM and MS could have formed this code for a body in a tarp beforehand if this one was the purported “first”.

Reviewing the texts and timeline of the 4th, it looks to me like DM plugged that iPad in alone, possibly to charge, and then left while MS was sleeping. Otherwise, why the need to text MS in about the time it would have taken to get to where he was when he sent the text that he was gone to Waterloo with Pedo?

So all that would look like this:

MS goes to bed shortly after he sends his 9:14 am text in response to the 2:10 am text from DM. Other conversations and timelines suggest it is not unusual for MS to stay up all night and sleep late in the day.

DM rolls a joint about 45 minutes later and texts MS, potentially intending it as an invite. MS is now crashed and doesn’t respond.

DM plugs in the iPad about 30 minutes later and then takes off for Waterloo. Texts Smich a few minutes later from the road telling him he’s headed to the hangar with Pedo and he’ll be back later, he left some money, then a likely drug reference to heroin. This could have happened when he stopped to dispose of Laura’s phone. Last ping was 11:00, texts to Smich we’re at 11:03.

Smich wakes up mid-afternoon and just responds to the conversation he sees on the phone without much attention to the time it was sent, essentially saying I’m awake now how’s the spliff. The spliff text was poorly formatted “How’s the. spliff”, and may reflect a bleary person’s just woken fingers and thought process.

DM responds that he’s on his way back. There’s nothing to say about a spliff he smoked 5 hours previously, and we’ve seen him just ignore MS’ other misunderstandings and dumb comments (ayak?).

Taken with literally every other thing that makes it look like MS is clueless that a murder is taking place under his nose, it would make some sense.

 

[musicaljoke]

Does not look like MS was helping DM to put body in the tarp otherwise why DM would have texted him?

To affirm what they had already done. To be silly. To share an inside joke. Who knows? I don't believe that DM is passing information to MS of what he had done.

However, his following comment, that he "left some dough on the coffee table in the basement", was information he needed to tell MS.

 

[JuneBug67]

To affirm what they had already done. To be silly. To share an inside joke. Who knows? I don't believe that DM is passing information to MS of what he had done.

However, his following comment, that he "left some dough on the coffee table in the basement", was information he needed to tell MS.

Those two texts were about an hour apart and had other words between them, so it is not truly a “following” comment. Not sure how much that matters to your theory, but thought I’d point it out.

Another thought I had was whether the stop at the hangar was in part to pick up a tarp or tarps. DM has suggested that they were used a lot there. Perhaps she left Maple Gate concealed some other way.

 

[musicaljoke]

If we look at BillAndrew's timeline, at around 7:30pm on July 3rd, it doesn't look good for MS. Did Millard leave the gun, or the ammunition that he had picked up earlier that day, at the top of the stairs for Smich? Whatever it was, it triggered the reply from MS that he needed a small favour from DM, some money. MS knew that the "present" was not money.

Then DM leaves for an hour, leaving MS and LB together in the house. From 7:30 pm until about 1:00 am, the phones are silent.

Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate. Babcock Day 9: Fortier testimony
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

 

[musicaljoke]

Those two texts were about an hour apart and had other words between them, so it is not truly a “following” comment. Not sure how much that matters to your theory, but thought I’d point it out.

Another thought I had was whether the stop at the hangar was in part to pick up a tarp or tarps. DM has suggested that they were used a lot there. Perhaps she left Maple Gate concealed some other way.

I meant to simply show that one was not passing information, whereas the other was.

 

[JuneBug67]

If we look at BillAndrew's timeline, at around 7:30pm on July 3rd, it doesn't look good for MS. Did Millard leave the gun, or the ammunition that he had picked up earlier that day, at the top of the stairs for Smich? Whatever it was, it triggered the reply from MS that he needed a small favour from DM, some money. MS knew that the "present" was not money.

Then DM leaves for an hour, leaving MS and LB together in the house. From 7:30 pm until about 1:00 am, the phones are silent.

Jul 3 7:03 pm Babcock's phone calls her voicemail, the final call reported on her phone records. It pings a tower near Maple Gate. Babcock Day 9: Fortier testimony
Jul 3 7:26 pm Millard texts Smich: "present for you at the top of the stairs." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 7:32 pm Smich texts Millard: "Thank u. I need a small favour. Some change for food. I'm out of cash." Babcock Day 13: Falconer testimony
Jul 3 7:33 pm Millard texts Smich: "tru. I'm on a mission, back in 1 hr."

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Hb6kEtpLa8cHCVorBuy4yqfHymGvhfHeM6s8QMWGVW8/pubhtml

Shouldn’t we assume Marlena was at the house as well while DM was gone? billandrew previously theorized that the present at the top of the stairs was the Heineken DM bought in respone to MS’ request for alcohol, and I think that is very plausible. Could Laura have called her voicemail while waiting in the vehicle in the driveway while Millard dropped off the alcohol?

I’m not confident we actually have all the information on phone activity during the evening. We know Millard was gone somewhere for an intended hour, but we don’t have ping info on that, for example.

 

[Yendys]

I don't know much about this sort of thing, but could it have been exchanged or inserted where something else was?
It just doesn't look right. He's off balance like he was leaning.

DM is also not dressed as if he was planning on working on an engine. I would have expected old clothes. DM said he had lots of stops that day to SS in a text and it would only be a short stop at the hanger, definitely a staged shot.

 

[mimimic]

Shouldn’t we assume Marlena was at the house as well while DM was gone? billandrew previously theorized that the present at the top of the stairs was the Heineken DM bought in respone to MS’ request for alcohol, and I think that is very plausible. Could Laura have called her voicemail while waiting in the vehicle in the driveway while Millard dropped off the alcohol?

I’m not confident we actually have all the information on phone activity during the evening. We know Millard was gone somewhere for an intended hour, but we don’t have ping info on that, for example.

To isho's IIRC now that you ask

 

[inbetweendoors]

What are the chances that “spliff” just meant spliff? DM texts “I rolled my first spliff” at 10 am, and if one was a wake and bake type, that would be a reasonable time and could be read as an invitation if MS was awake. When MS wakes up mid afternoon he texts saying that he’s up now, and then a second text “How’s. the spliff.” Could it just be a tendency of MS’ to answer texts hours later without particular attention to when the conversation was started? We possibly saw that with his 9:14 am “Aight” which was presumably a reply to DM’s 2:10 am text that he would come talk to him in the morning.

It seems to me you might not think of calling a body in a tarp a spliff until after you actually did the rolling and ended up with the visual. DM doesn’t take or send a photo with that 10 am text, so it’s worth wondering if or how DM and MS could have formed this code for a body in a tarp beforehand if this one was the purported “first”.

Reviewing the texts and timeline of the 4th, it looks to me like DM plugged that iPad in alone, possibly to charge, and then left while MS was sleeping. Otherwise, why the need to text MS in about the time it would have taken to get to where he was when he sent the text that he was gone to Waterloo with Pedo?

So all that would look like this:

MS goes to bed shortly after he sends his 9:14 am text in response to the 2:10 am text from DM. Other conversations and timelines suggest it is not unusual for MS to stay up all night and sleep late in the day.

DM rolls a joint about 45 minutes later and texts MS, potentially intending it as an invite. MS is now crashed and doesn’t respond.

DM plugs in the iPad about 30 minutes later and then takes off for Waterloo. Texts Smich a few minutes later from the road telling him he’s headed to the hangar with Pedo and he’ll be back later, he left some money, then a likely drug reference to heroin. This could have happened when he stopped to dispose of Laura’s phone. Last ping was 11:00, texts to Smich we’re at 11:03.

Smich wakes up mid-afternoon and just responds to the conversation he sees on the phone without much attention to the time it was sent, essentially saying I’m awake now how’s the spliff. The spliff text was poorly formatted “How’s the. spliff”, and may reflect a bleary person’s just woken fingers and thought process.

DM responds that he’s on his way back. There’s nothing to say about a spliff he smoked 5 hours previously, and we’ve seen him just ignore MS’ other misunderstandings and dumb comments (ayak?).

Taken with literally every other thing that makes it look like MS is clueless that a murder is taking place under his nose, it would make some sense.

Changes are good imo.
I know people that can't roll joints to save their soul, and always have someone else do it for them.
This one is definitely up for debate, but could easily be a reference to a literal spliff.

I like how you laid out your logic and reasoning too.

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[musicaljoke]

Shouldn’t we assume Marlena was at the house as well while DM was gone? billandrew previously theorized that the present at the top of the stairs was the Heineken DM bought in respone to MS’ request for alcohol, and I think that is very plausible. Could Laura have called her voicemail while waiting in the vehicle in the driveway while Millard dropped off the alcohol?

I’m not confident we actually have all the information on phone activity during the evening. We know Millard was gone somewhere for an intended hour, but we don’t have ping info on that, for example.

Yes, any reasonable theory is possible, as long as it lines up with the evidence, and your theory does too. Personally, I believe that MS murdered LB while DM was "out". This is possible given the timeline.

We know that DM had been grooming MS for big missions for quite a while, and that MS was thirsty for something significant. It's conceivable that DM simply told MS what to do, and it was done. DM seems good at allocating jobs to others.