GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #3

[Hiandmighty]

Also, in the prisons with mother baby bonding programs, the program is only offered to *nonviolent offenders", because you know, why would you put a baby in the same space as someone with rage issues and who has in the least been accused of murder.

 

[RK77]

Anyone have any ideas who may have been in that picture on the other side of HM that was cut out for publication of this picture? And can that "lawyer's" shirt get any lower? LOL

MOO[/QUOTE]

Speaking of pictures, I don't know if anyone noticed that one of the 3 photos on HM fundraising site has been removed. It was the Mack matching Christmas sweater photo. It was removed after someone left a comment on the Oak Park news article about how disgraceful it was to use a photo of HM with her mother. So obviously, one of the attorneys is monitoring the comments.

I know it has been discussed before, but where is just one of this girl's friends to comment about any of this? She doesn't have one single friend (except that Jakarta Post foreign news article that prob is not read by most Americans ) defending her - which I believe is very telling.

 

[FigTree]

I get the impression that this poor, poor unborn child Stella has the weight of the world squarely placed on her shoulders already by the very people who should be managing this situation and protecting her with every ounce of their being.
Stella, not yet to see the world she will be brought into, has already experienced a murder - and she is now responsible for her mothers and fathers irresponsible incapacity to provide for her, and she is already been sold out by a Lawyer trying to make money from her (baby Stella's) situation.

This child needs help - NOW!! - she has been and will be placed in danger of being a huge in this circus, when her life should start out with the joy of innocent with a fresh clean slate.
What will they tell Stella when she is old enough to realize what happened to her in Bali.


This is just despicable.

ETA: I hope Stella sues the pants off the Firm, as I see nothing here to indicate that this is in the child's best interests.

 

[RK77]

Legal standards in Illinois for involuntary termination of parental rights:

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/089/089003090000500R.html

Attorney Favia has stated that Stella will be born an American citizen. If she is born an American citizen, I wonder how hard it would be to argue that Illinois law applies to the baby: that she is entitled to protection from the law of Illinois - including the one that allows someone to petition the court to terminate the parents legal rights.

 

[FigTree]

Legal standards in Illinois for involuntary termination of parental rights:

http://www.ilga.gov/commission/jcar/admincode/089/089003090000500R.html

Attorney Favia has stated that Stella will be born an American citizen. If she is born an American citizen, I wonder how hard it would be to argue that Illinois law applies to the baby: that she is entitled to protection from the law of Illinois - including the one that allows someone to petition the court to terminate the parents legal rights.

Interesting observations and thoughts RK77!
I wonder how the Law see's it regarding the child being In Utero, named and having both parents US citizens?
To me, some of the circumstances outlined, already exist, and have been now documented on-line in the Fund Raiser - though that is only my opinion doing a read through of it.
Depending on the outcome of the charges to be laid on both parents separately - there could be further argument for removal down the track.

I am also interested in why the Fund Raiser is looking to the amount of $15,000.
How long would it take to go through that amount of money in Bali to give medical care and support to the child (via HM's care), and after she is born?
I wondered if the amount is calculated on the time assessed by the Legals that HM will be spending in Jail/or until the baby is taken out of prison to be cared for by someone else.
Maybe its calculated on the amount of time its assessed until HM gets any funds flowing again.

 

[ajaylee]

There's a lot that really smells (reeks!) about the $15K figure.

1) HM's lawyers tried to get her care shifted to a public hospital, but so far she's been treated at the police hospital like any other prisoner. Are we supposed to believe that she might go into labor and if she hasn't got ready $$, she'll be left untreated? Or if she delivers and fails to pay the bill, what? The prison system is going to assign her hard labor?

2) There is a recent incident that suggests that this preposterous scenario is bogus. One of the Bali Nine, Renae Lawrence, ended up in hospital for an appendectomy a few months ago. Not even the worst stories I've ever read out of Kerobokan suggests that if a prisoner has no $, s/he gets no care.

3) I question the cost. I don't have the time to run a casual budget now, but basic toiletries (toothpaste, deodorant, shampoo/soap) just don't cost that much - nor does a plate of fried rice. I don't know about Bali specifically, but in SE Asia, the food will be dirt cheap. There are plenty of people already making daily trips to the prison to serve the needs of anyone with $. There's no reason someone 'white' has to be paid western wages to drive an hour each way daily to serve HM's needs.

In short, I think this is really a ploy by Elkin to hedge his bets: I think they intend to use the majority of anything collected as a down-payment on HM's, I mean Stella's, legal bill.

http://www.baliadvertiser.biz/articles/paradise/2011/birthing.html

Here's a link from 2011: the article is about foreigners going overseas to save $ on baby delivery costs. Foreigners in Indonesia get charged double, but even with that, the 2011 rates were $1000-$2000 for a simple birth and $1800-$3600 for a surgical delivery.

I disgusts me that these lawyers are soliciting $ based on false and mis-leading information.

 

[Kamille]

The baby is due in April. The charges are expected within 20 days of the move to Kerobokan. The trial may start in January? So are we to assume that by the time this baby is born, the charge, possible conviction and sentence for HM will be known? Will that change anything in regards to what the lawyers think is appropriate for "Baby Stella Mack"? (note that there is no reference to Shaefer).

 

[ajaylee]

It has occurred to me before: HM must have slept with TS and gotten pregnant almost as soon as she met him.

Re: suggestions that US authorities might play a role in Baby Mack's future.

I'm very skeptical. It's hard enough sometimes (usually when it shouldn't be) to terminate parental rights in the US. Even if a court order was issued in the US, there's no way for the US authorities to enforce it until such time as Baby Mack enters the country.

 

[Kamille]

It has occurred to me before: HM must have slept with TS and gotten pregnant almost as soon as she met him.

Re: suggestions that US authorities might play a role in Baby Mack's future.

I'm very skeptical. It's hard enough sometimes (usually when it shouldn't be) to terminate parental rights in the US. Even if a court order was issued in the US, there's no way for the US authorities to enforce it until such time as Baby Mack enters the country.

Yes I don't think there is any way for any agency in the US to get involved in this for as long as Indonesia allows this child to stay in their country. Apparently they will allow the child to stay with it's mother for 2 years in the prison (assuming that she is actually charged and sentenced with a crime that keeps her there 2 years or longer). So what happens then? Do they allow the child to remain in Bali on some type of Visa and live with a "foster family" until HM is released? Or do they then deport the child back to the US to be taken care of by a "foster family" there? And if so, what agency in the US would have to be involved at that point? Or do these lawyers just get to collect the child from Bali and place her with someone based on orders from HM? Where do the father's rights fit in to all this?

So convoluted.

MOO

 

[SwampMama]

I am seriously shaking my head at the campaign to collect money to basically sponser a baby so she can STAY in prison. Get her out of there and away from her murderous violent "mother". HM has NO business raising a child.

 

[gracehatter]

I read up on babies in prison last night and it seems many lawyers find it violates the baby's 14th amendment rights. (Due process and equal protection under the law). The baby is effectively getting a prison sentence and she hasn't done anything.

Also, with similar situations one baby nearly died because she needed emergency care and the jail time
wouldn't bring the baby to the hospital because the baby wasn't an inmate in the system, and they felt legally there were safety issues with taking responsibily for the baby and transferring her to a hospital.

Keep in mind the distinction between "jail" and "prison" in the US. They are not the same thing at all and have different protocols for emergencies and medical treatment completely so I understand where the incident you refer to could happen. I am unaware of any jails that have a Mother/infant program in place, I may be wrong but I'd be very suprised. It is true that each prison program will exclude high risk inmates, obviously but that is true of all prison housing assignments...they don't all just get thrown into one area and let the inmates run the show. They are classified from the moment they are convicted and it is used throughout their entire stay and it governs pretty much everything they do on a daily basis. The legal system in which a person's guilt or innocence is determined is a completely different arm of the judicial system from a state department of corrections and adminstered as such. Prisons generally have an inhouse infirmary and medical staff that work on a full time basis. Jails often do not, most are lucky if they have a nurse that is staffed fulltime because that will always be determined by their capacity, kind of a supply/demand situation. I've worked in a few jails and even the largest did not have a full-time doctor on staff.

 

[SouthAussie]

I dunno …. I don’t think that we can compare conditions within a prison in any western country with the conditions in Kerobokan.

The baby will not be segregated from the prison population in Kerobokan, will be living in a cell with 5 or 6 other women besides HM, and will no doubt be taken into mixed areas so that HM can hang with TS or any other new beau she may latch onto, do some drugs, get a little lovin' ... she is a teenager, an irresponsible and selfish one ... not to mention a murderer with many documented prior incidents of violence against a loved one.

While many prisoners will love a baby - a new little breath of fresh air for them - the baby will be exposed to drug use, open sex, mosquitos (which can be disease carrying), hot and steamy conditions, wet conditions, unsanitary conditions – all of which we know are prevalent in the prison. In addition, I am sure that there are fights and disagreements in the prison, among the overcrowded and confined people, as well as the erratic behaviour of people with borderline mental illness and those who use drugs.

There is no nursery division, or mother-child division. And it seems that as long as HM is breast feeding her, the baby can stay in those conditions up until 2 years old. It seems that when the breast feeding stops, the baby is taken.

Aussie services and politicians got very involved when Schapelle was jailed, sentenced and imprisoned, and she is not a baby. But she had some people here pushing hard for her.

Someone else needs to get a different lawyer for this baby. :sigh:

 

[RR0004]

Isn't it time for the relevant US Dept to step in? Do they even know that an innocent US baby is going to be born into a prison society to live among what is deemed to be some of the worst kind of criminals, and that the mother intends to keep her there? And that a US lawyer and a 'Christian Legal Fund' are both supporting her in this insane enterprise?

I wonder if the Consulate is obliged to inform the relevant authorities. Surely in their capacity to watch out for the welfare of US citizens overseas they would have great concerns for the baby's intended living environment.

I don't think the US government should get involved. If anyone should be involved, it should be family. I realize SWM's family has reason not to, but what about friends and family of TS? Why shouldn't they provide for the unborn child?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't think the US government should get involved. If anyone should be involved, it should be family. I realize SWM's family has reason not to, but what about friends and family of TS? Why shouldn't they provide for the unborn child?

The reason I said a relevant US Dept is because I believe, judging by Schapelle's case, that politicians and other govt staff seem to have the most power and pull with Indonesian authorities. Non-Indonesian lawyers have no bearing at all in Indonesia. And, yes, family is usually the driver behind those govt efforts.

And as Highandmighty said above, what about the baby's rights within the context of being a US citizen? While that may not count to Indonesia, surely they mean something to the US law and someone (political) could extend themselves for an innocent minor ... a newborn baby.


ETA: I by no means mean to detract from the horrible murder of Sheila, I just think that the baby should be pulled out of there as an innocent US citizen, and that HM and TS should both receive and carry out the full sentence deserved by them both.
As you can tell, I am very passionate about the protection of little children. I'll try and keep that passion more muted from now on.

 

[Kamille]

Obviously 15 grand isn't going to cut it for a long term solution to this problem. Which makes me believe that the lawyers are only trying to finance a short term solution to THEIR problem, which is to cover the costs of HM's pampering, the hospital delivery, and supplies for the baby after the fact. Plus perhaps their expenses to travel back to Bali for the trial?

MOO

 

[gitana1]

Not much else to say in regards to the overall offensive nature of that article.

I think the article makes it pretty clear that, as we expected, HM has been receiving help with food, clothing and other essentials via these lawyers paying a pittance to a local. They want more money because HM has moved and whomever has been helping them out can't drive to the prison as often or at all. So they need to find someone else or pay this person(s) more. And it's starting to take a chunk out of their pocket so they are hoping for some relief until, as gracehatter has stated, they can get at SWM's money.

Nowhere in that article does it indicate that TS is even a consideration here. I can't believe how HM has manipulated herself into the best possible position and left TS in the dust. And now that they are in Kerobokan together, she's likely manipulating TS again as well.

Anyone have any ideas who may have been in that picture on the other side of HM that was cut out for publication of this picture? And can that "lawyer's" shirt get any lower? LOL

MOO

Im more worried about the Lawyer's ethics than the pitch of her shirt. HM has a long record of being a dangerously violent, unstable and rage-filled brat with a hair trigger temper. And some lawyer is trying to support her being anywhere near a fragile baby? For any length of time? And creating a fake Christian charity in order to do so?

Im sure the 50 bucks they raised thus far is enough to ensure that the princess obtains the proper nutrients for the whole rest of her pregnancy. Then once she's born, that baby needs to be yanked out of there immediately. The baby's very life depends on it IMO.

 

[Curious Me]

I think Sheila wouldn't want her grandbaby starting life in prison or with her killers, her own daughter and the boyfriend. Both have violent, murderous tendencies, and can't be trusted around children, IMO. Then, to place a newborn baby in the surrounding of that prison with no nursery or real protection makes me shudder. Suppose the baby has colic and cries day and night and one of the women roomie prisoners doesn't like the baby or Heather? Sheila's family might want to do something with this situation to honor what Sheila would've wanted. I don't know what. At the heart of this mess is the estate and who will benefit. It's a very ugly, confusing, situation legally. Looks like Baby Stella needs a better, less greedy, attorney who will advise what is truly best for the child.

 

[gitana1]

I get the impression that this poor, poor unborn child Stella has the weight of the world squarely placed on her shoulders already by the very people who should be managing this situation and protecting her with every ounce of their being.
Stella, not yet to see the world she will be brought into, has already experienced a murder - and she is now responsible for her mothers and fathers irresponsible incapacity to provide for her, and she is already been sold out by a Lawyer trying to make money from her (baby Stella's) situation.

This child needs help - NOW!! - she has been and will be placed in danger of being a huge in this circus, when her life should start out with the joy of innocent with a fresh clean slate.
What will they tell Stella when she is old enough to realize what happened to her in Bali.


This is just despicable.

ETA: I hope Stella sues the pants off the Firm, as I see nothing here to indicate that this is in the child's best interests.

This is truly insane and outrageous. Someone needs to step up and advocate for this baby. I'm horrified right now.

It has occurred to me before: HM must have slept with TS and gotten pregnant almost as soon as she met him.

Re: suggestions that US authorities might play a role in Baby Mack's future.

I'm very skeptical. It's hard enough sometimes (usually when it shouldn't be) to terminate parental rights in the US. Even if a court order was issued in the US, there's no way for the US authorities to enforce it until such time as Baby Mack enters the country.

You know, how can we be certain the kid is Schaeffer's? But I agree with your post. I think there are only two ways to protect this baby- one, if the Indonesian authorities act on their own and deem the child in danger and remove her when she's born or two, if someone related to the child, probably would have to be on Mack's side of the family- a sibling? Uncle? - files for guardianship and whatever is the equivalent, in both the US and Indonesia, and works with the system there to take the child.

But I don't know if there is anyone willing or if so, financially able, because they would likely have to relocate to Bali for awhile.

This is truly scary stuff. We now have people using the unborn child to assist Mack and trying to make it easy for her to keep the kid. These are despicable people I think who figured out a way to get paid. Sick. This is really lowdown. Really lowdown.

I feel this baby is totally alone and helpless. Not a soul in the world to protect her.

 

[gitana1]

The reason I said a relevant US Dept is because I believe, judging by Schapelle's case, that politicians and other govt staff seem to have the most power and pull with Indonesian authorities. Non-Indonesian lawyers have no bearing at all in Indonesia. And, yes, family is usually the driver behind those govt efforts.

And as Highandmighty said above, what about the baby's rights within the context of being a US citizen? While that may not count to Indonesia, surely they mean something to the US law and someone (political) could extend themselves for an innocent minor ... a newborn baby.


ETA: I by no means mean to detract from the horrible murder of Sheila, I just think that the baby should be pulled out of there as an innocent US citizen, and that HM and TS should both receive and carry out the full sentence deserved by them both.
As you can tell, I am very passionate about the protection of little children. I'll try and keep that passion more muted from now on.

South, I think we are all on the same page here with you. This is outrageous. Something needs to be done. But I'm not sure what.

 

[Kamille]

Is it possible that these lawyers are hedging their bets that HM walks away from any serious charges here? Hoping for her to be out of that prison within months to return home and use them to start fighting for her inheritance?

I really see this as what they believe will be a short term solution to the problem they have of financing her for the next few months, including their own travel back there during or after the trial?

It IS outrageous and despicable. Takes "ambulance chasers" to a whole new level IMO

MOO