Blunt Force Trauma

[beesy]

It is what she told police. It is in the trial transcripts.

Again, thank you! I would have never found that on my own. I knew you could help. I remember we talked about it and saying an intruder would have to be at a very awkward angle to get to her throat. The major organs were much easier to hit. Gee, wonder why he missed all of those?

 

[Goody]

Again, thank you! I would have never found that on my own. I knew you could help. I remember we talked about it and saying an intruder would have to be at a very awkward angle to get to her throat. The major organs were much easier to hit. Gee, wonder why he missed all of those?

There are many reasons to believe that she was not attacked by an intruder. Missing those so easy to access major organs is one of them.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Yes, but the posters who think an object was used to make the bruises would be assuming that it was done to Darlie on purpose, so the hitting wouldn't be hard enough to actually break her bones, the board or object, and it wouldn't be done in a way to try and kill. I've got some decking types boards that are finished and in no way would splinter or break if I gave something, especially the soft underside of an arm a good slap with one. The board could actually even be smaller or something like a wooden paddle. Something made those bruises. I don't know if getting stabbed all the way to the bone would bruise the underside of an arm and not the top or not and I don't think that the couch would have been wide enough for an intruder to have sat on the underside of the arms. Looks like that would have broken Darlie's arm if it were outstretched more than any board or object hitting her. Has anyone ever tried to recreate the reported scene of an intruder holding her down to see if it could be done on a couch?

My hubby had no problem but I don't have any chest to get in the way either.
But he sure could pin me at the wrists with one hand. The weight on the couch didn't bruise me but I didn't struggle either. It did leave a line impression where his blue jeans inseam was. I can lift my legs pretty high ladies and I couldn't dislodge him kicking up like I thought I could. He suggested the bruises could have been her striking the forearm of the person holding her, it is a pretty straight bone and would leave a straight line bruise like described.
I was able to wiggle side to side some like in a rocking motion but sideways. He outweighs me by at least 40-50 lbs. Close in height too. It was from experiment that I derived some of my theories and clearly described how Darlie was held down when I put my crack heads out there.
It takes two to hit a board and arm together enough to bruise it so I guess this is more of the 2 did it theory support.

When hubby suffered his stab to the arm it did bruise real bad and worse on the entry side, it didn't hit bone though, it actually went right in between the two arm bones, (lower arm) and all the way thru it punctured the other side and took months to heal. His arm hurt for a long time as I recall, I recall being rather unsympathetic to him at that time as he would not go to a doctor for stitches you think I'm scary and unusual you should meet MR R. We are a pair but he far outdoes me in the unusual department.

 

[Goody]

My hubby had no problem but I don't have any chest to get in the way either.
But he sure could pin me at the wrists with one hand. The weight on the couch didn't bruise me but I didn't struggle either. It did leave a line impression where his blue jeans inseam was. I can lift my legs pretty high ladies and I couldn't dislodge him kicking up like I thought I could. He suggested the bruises could have been her striking the forearm of the person holding her, it is a pretty straight bone and would leave a straight line bruise like described.
I was able to wiggle side to side some like in a rocking motion but sideways. He outweighs me by at least 40-50 lbs. Close in height too. It was from experiment that I derived some of my theories and clearly described how Darlie was held down when I put my crack heads out there.
It takes two to hit a board and arm together enough to bruise it so I guess this is more of the 2 did it theory support.

When hubby suffered his stab to the arm it did bruise real bad and worse on the entry side, it didn't hit bone though, it actually went right in between the two arm bones, (lower arm) and all the way thru it punctured the other side and took months to heal. His arm hurt for a long time as I recall, I recall being rather unsympathetic to him at that time as he would not go to a doctor for stitches you think I'm scary and unusual you should meet MR R. We are a pair but he far outdoes me in the unusual department.

One thing about your crackheads, do you see them walking perfectly straight like a normal person or would their senses and balance be impaired?

 

[txsvicki]

I just keep questioning the arm bruising and being held down on the couch. If Darlie were lying on the couch and the whole underside of her arm got bruised in that way, wouldn't her arm have to be either out at an angle, straight up, or out to her side? If a man was holding her arms down (on the couch) with his leg all the way up to her underarm, wouldn't that be awfully awkward for him then to slash her neck? He'd either need to be very short or extremely tall I would think. Why, he could have cut his own leg. Why isn't her under arm area stabbed at all, and if she got away from being pinned down long enough for him to grab and put circling bruises on both her wrists, where did he lay the knife bloody from the children's wounds while he did this? He'd have had blood on him and either left it on the fence, the window screen, something.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

One thing about your crackheads, do you see them walking perfectly straight like a normal person or would their senses and balance be impaired?

Alcohol makes a person stagger badly, not meth, coke, crack, marijuana, or even some of the other junk people put into their bodies.
These drugs do affect your motor control but not like alcohol does.

IT does make them think they are bullet proof like the angel dust or pcp users.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

I just keep questioning the arm bruising and being held down on the couch. If Darlie were lying on the couch and the whole underside of her arm got bruised in that way, wouldn't her arm have to be either out at an angle, straight up, or out to her side? If a man was holding her arms down (on the couch) with his leg all the way up to her underarm, wouldn't that be awfully awkward for him then to slash her neck? He'd either need to be very short or extremely tall I would think. Why, he could have cut his own leg. Why isn't her under arm area stabbed at all, and if she got away from being pinned down long enough for him to grab and put circling bruises on both her wrists, where did he lay the knife bloody from the children's wounds while he did this? He'd have had blood on him and either left it on the fence, the window screen, something.

Darlie did tend to sleep on her side. The circling bruises could have been from being pinned like Mr R showed me. That hold is hard to break and could have continued until he let go. If she broke her arms free from under his legs--- then started to strike back she would hit his lower arms holding the knife. No man is gonna take a chance of hitting himself between the legs that's why he didn't finish her off he couldn't make the stab to her heart without endangering his manhood.


Let me point out that I have read the transcripts about the knife and the expert could not rule the knife used on Damon was the same as the one used on Devon. Why-- the knife used on Devon had serrations (very clear serrations to the expert) the knife given him to compare the wounds to did not. He clearly states the knife would be similar in style to the one used on Damon. Distinct tool marks as he says. Devon sustained deeper wounds and Frosch found serrations on places in one wound. If the same knife is used how did Darlie grind off the blade serrations. These serrations would also be found on the knife making a MATCH and if it was true that 1 knife was used then Frosch would have stated it. instead the prosecution got him to admit only that the knives were similar----.


I believe his name is Frosch I didn't write it down as I was still looking for BEVELS testimony- I read it yesterday. No expert has ever stated that the same knife was used on both boys. The wounds tool marks didn't match each other. the depth and widths didn't match either

I think we maybe operating under a false impression--- beesy----Goody. I am asking nicely Is it possible in your opinions- to have a 2nd knife, remember the door I heard in the 911 early on before we hear the thump thump of Darin on the stairs. Could Darin have gone out and hid his evidence somewhere. Came back in and went upstairs...... makes sure he is heard coming down the stairs........ Could explain why Darlie says he didn't come down very quick he wasn't upstairs he was outside planting the sock and hiding this knife.

 

[cami]

Alcohol makes a person stagger badly, not meth, coke, crack, marijuana, or even some of the other junk people put into their bodies.
These drugs do affect your motor control but not like alcohol does.

IT does make them think they are bullet proof like the angel dust or pcp users.

I wonder if they are the same drug addicts who allegedly murdered the MacDonald's back in 1970 in Ft. Bragg? Green Beret Jeffery MacDonald sits in a federal prison convicted of the three murders. Those drug addicts seem to target the children first and once they have finished with them, they just leave the adults behind with minor injuries. Pretty smart druggies too. They also have not left one single item of physical evidence, no fingerprints, no footprints, no hair, no dna, etc. at their alleged crime scenes.

"Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"

I guess Devon and Damon were the "pigs" in this crime.

 

[beesy]

My hubby had no problem but I don't have any chest to get in the way either.
But he sure could pin me at the wrists with one hand. The weight on the couch didn't bruise me but I didn't struggle either. It did leave a line impression where his blue jeans inseam was. I can lift my legs pretty high ladies and I couldn't dislodge him kicking up like I thought I could. He suggested the bruises could have been her striking the forearm of the person holding her, it is a pretty straight bone and would leave a straight line bruise like described.
I was able to wiggle side to side some like in a rocking motion but sideways. He outweighs me by at least 40-50 lbs. Close in height too. It was from experiment that I derived some of my theories and clearly described how Darlie was held down when I put my crack heads out there.
It takes two to hit a board and arm together enough to bruise it so I guess this is more of the 2 did it theory support.

When hubby suffered his stab to the arm it did bruise real bad and worse on the entry side, it didn't hit bone though, it actually went right in between the two arm bones, (lower arm) and all the way thru it punctured the other side and took months to heal. His arm hurt for a long time as I recall, I recall being rather unsympathetic to him at that time as he would not go to a doctor for stitches you think I'm scary and unusual you should meet MR R. We are a pair but he far outdoes me in the unusual department.

If you believe Di Maio's testimony that they are defensive wounds, then you have to believe they were caused by blunt force trauma, which is what he said. I don't think holding someone down is considered blunt force trauma. This is why we have so much trouble with these bruises, why they drive us nuts. Nothing seems to fit.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

If you believe Di Maio's testimony that they are defensive wounds, then you have to believe they were caused by blunt force trauma, which is what he said. I don't think holding someone down is considered blunt force trauma. This is why we have so much trouble with these bruises, why they drive us nuts. Nothing seems to fit.

What if the dude(s) did one of those WWF wrestling moves on her and jumped from a table or something? Would that work?

 

[Goody]

Darlie did tend to sleep on her side. The circling bruises could have been from being pinned like Mr R showed me. That hold is hard to break and could have continued until he let go. If she broke her arms free from under his legs--- then started to strike back she would hit his lower arms holding the knife. No man is gonna take a chance of hitting himself between the legs that's why he didn't finish her off he couldn't make the stab to her heart without endangering his manhood.


Let me point out that I have read the transcripts about the knife and the expert could not rule the knife used on Damon was the same as the one used on Devon. Why-- the knife used on Devon had serrations (very clear serrations to the expert) the knife given him to compare the wounds to did not. He clearly states the knife would be similar in style to the one used on Damon. Distinct tool marks as he says. Devon sustained deeper wounds and Frosch found serrations on places in one wound. If the same knife is used how did Darlie grind off the blade serrations. These serrations would also be found on the knife making a MATCH and if it was true that 1 knife was used then Frosch would have stated it. instead the prosecution got him to admit only that the knives were similar----.


I believe his name is Frosch I didn't write it down as I was still looking for BEVELS testimony- I read it yesterday. No expert has ever stated that the same knife was used on both boys. The wounds tool marks didn't match each other. the depth and widths didn't match either

I think we maybe operating under a false impression--- beesy----Goody. I am asking nicely Is it possible in your opinions- to have a 2nd knife, remember the door I heard in the 911 early on before we hear the thump thump of Darin on the stairs. Could Darin have gone out and hid his evidence somewhere. Came back in and went upstairs...... makes sure he is heard coming down the stairs........ Could explain why Darlie says he didn't come down very quick he wasn't upstairs he was outside planting the sock and hiding this knife.

It is possible but certainly not as probable as she just rinsed off the knife to cut herself (it would take a cast iron heart to cut yourself with a blade that had your children's blood on it) and then had to stab Damon again after she had cut herself. That easily explains why her blood and Damons was found on the knife but not Devon's.

Is it possible that Darin took multiple items down the alley and pitched them in that sewer? Yes, but he is the only one other than Darlie who might do that. An intruder wouldn't have any interest in bothering with efforts like that.

As for the experts' testimonies, there is not certain way to determine which knife was used on the stab wounds because the skin is soft and the cuts spread wider than the knife actually cuts. So the most any expert can say about something like that is that it is "consistent with." Nearly any knife smaller than the wound would probably be "consistent with."

 

[Goody]

Alcohol makes a person stagger badly, not meth, coke, crack, marijuana, or even some of the other junk people put into their bodies.
These drugs do affect your motor control but not like alcohol does.

IT does make them think they are bullet proof like the angel dust or pcp users.

O, come on, eveyone knows someone who's been stoned who has also slurred their words,been clumsy, maybe not consistently but certainly at intervals as they try to maintain. Cocaine, which is what crack is made out of, makes one feel like they are walking outside of their bodies. How much can one fake walking normally when they feel like they are floating? Maybe moving about the house fairly easily when it is your own home, but in a strange home and thru a dark and cluttered garage? Sorry I don't buy the crackhead theory at all. That is like blaming the neigborhood black guy. An easy patsy.

 

[deanws]

Alcohol makes a person stagger badly, not meth, coke, crack, marijuana, or even some of the other junk people put into their bodies.
These drugs do affect your motor control but not like alcohol does.

IT does make them think they are bullet proof like the angel dust or pcp users.

Not true.

 

[deanws]

I wonder if they are the same drug addicts who allegedly murdered the MacDonald's back in 1970 in Ft. Bragg? Green Beret Jeffery MacDonald sits in a federal prison convicted of the three murders. Those drug addicts seem to target the children first and once they have finished with them, they just leave the adults behind with minor injuries. Pretty smart druggies too. They also have not left one single item of physical evidence, no fingerprints, no footprints, no hair, no dna, etc. at their alleged crime scenes.

"Acid is groovy, kill the pigs"

I guess Devon and Damon were the "pigs" in this crime.

Oh.... So very sad.

 

[deanws]

Is it possible that Darin took multiple items down the alley and pitched them in that sewer? Yes, but he is the only one other than Darlie who might do that. An intruder wouldn't have any interest in bothering with efforts like that.

Good post Goody.

 

[deanws]

O, come on, eveyone knows someone who's been stoned who has also slurred their words,been clumsy, maybe not consistently but certainly at intervals as they try to maintain. Cocaine, which is what crack is made out of, makes one feel like they are walking outside of their bodies. How much can one fake walking normally when they feel like they are floating? Maybe moving about the house fairly easily when it is your own home, but in a strange home and thru a dark and cluttered garage? Sorry I don't buy the crackhead theory at all. That is like blaming the neigborhood black guy. An easy patsy.

Exactly! I have seen kids when I was in high school and college stoned. You are right. They act very similar.:laugh: I don't know WHY people do that to their bodies, not to mention how stupid they look when they are that stoned.:hand:

 

[Goody]

Good post Goody.

Thanks, daniell.

 

[beesy]

[

QUOTE=Goody]It is possible but certainly not as probable as she just rinsed off the knife to cut herself (it would take a cast iron heart to cut yourself with a blade that had your children's blood on it) and then had to stab Damon again after she had cut herself. That easily explains why her blood and Damons was found on the knife but not Devon's

I think she rinsed too, although I don't know why she did. Maybe she was worried about HIV. Wasn't a little bit of Devon's blood found on the backsplash and/or in the P-trap? I remember hearing that and I looked for it but couldn't find it.

Is it possible that Darin took multiple items down the alley and pitched them in that sewer? Yes, but he is the only one other than Darlie who might do that. An intruder wouldn't have any interest in bothering with efforts like that.
As for the experts' testimonies, there is not certain way to determine which knife was used on the stab wounds because the skin is soft and the cuts spread wider than the knife actually cuts. So the most any expert can say about something like that is that it is "consistent with." Nearly any knife smaller than the wound would probably be "consistent with."

[/QUOTE]That's what I've been thinking. A 2nd knife does not clear Darlie. You've mentioned before that you wonder what else went down that sewer. It wouldn't make or break the case, but it'd be a good thing to know. It's sort of creepy thinking about it, isn't it?

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Someone was seen in the neighborhood, at a neighbors house, that night, looking in their window, So if if Darlie did it, you still have 2 miscreants roaming the neighborhood anyway. Track them down with their predictive behaviour of looking in windows who knows you might have an eyewitness or even better 2 eye witnesses.

 

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

[
I think she rinsed too, although I don't know why she did. Maybe she was worried about HIV. Wasn't a little bit of Devon's blood found on the backsplash and/or in the P-trap? I remember hearing that and I looked for it but couldn't find it.

That's what I've been thinking. A 2nd knife does not clear Darlie. You've mentioned before that you wonder what else went down that sewer. It wouldn't make or break the case, but it'd be a good thing to know. It's sort of creepy thinking about it, isn't it? [/QUOTE]
How far is the city clean out from their backyard or maybe y'all put em out front. It is the only access directly to the mains and flushing aint gonna do it .