Blunt Force Trauma

[Goody]

I live plenty close enough to do that...but they aren't going to open it up for no reason. Plus, the floods we have had here since all that happened would have washed away all the stuff years ago. I really can't imagine why in the world they didn't do it when all this happened. That is one area where someone should have gotten their hands slapped.:croc:

Why don't you ask the city what a good reason to look down there would be?

I agree that it is probably all gone, but there have been cases where something has just sort of waited for someone to come looking for it in spite of the odds against it. The case is not open right now so we can't get the cops to do it. Ask your husband how we could do that, just so we could put that away.

 

[deanws]

Why don't you ask the city what a good reason to look down there would be?

I agree that it is probably all gone, but there have been cases where something has just sort of waited for someone to come looking for it in spite of the odds against it. The case is not open right now so we can't get the cops to do it. Ask your husband how we could do that, just so we could put that away.

Ok....I will. If it was in Houston, Baytown or the surrounding areas...he could get it opened up easily. He is in the fields somewhere now...I will ask him as soon as he comes in. You are right though...freakier things have happened. Wouldn't it be a hoot to sometime in the future see more evidence turn up?

 

[deanws]

Goody.....make a guess about what you think went down that drain.

 

[beesy]

First, you can't catch HIV from anyone unless they have HIV, so there was no threat Darlie could catch HIV from her kids.

Yes, Devon's blood was found in that area, I believe. Seems it was around or in the drain.

Goody, that was a joke! Just being silly about why she would rinse the knife. Remember I'm not as funny as I think I am.

 

[deanws]

Beesy...I just sent you something by e-mail because it was too long to put in a PM. Hope you find it funny. I did! A friend that I worked with sent it to me.

 

[beesy]

I have always been of the opinion that the sock was placed there to throw off the cops and to look like the intruder dropped it there. Others think that sock was something dropped that was meant for the storm street drain. Which one do yall think and why?

I think Darin was aiming for the sewer or even that trashcan. He either didn't see that he'd missed or he did see it, but knew he had to get back. Maybe that was when Darlie screamed "DARIN" He might have heard sirens too.
To think of it as a plant, doesn't help or hurt her. Why would a stranger wear a sock he found in the Routier house on his hand? That means he's got to find a sock and a weapon, but nearly everything they did as a coverup is stupid, so I don't know. I think he was trying to dump it. When do you think she used that sock? The other sock might have been thrown down there too, or did she only use one sock? Does this post make any sense?

 

[beesy]

Beesy...I just sent you something by e-mail because it was too long to put in a PM. Hope you find it funny. I did! A friend that I worked with sent it to me.

Ok, thanks I'll check it out. I'm sure I'll like it if you did

 

[beesy]

Don't get me started. :banghead:

But my point is if Jane's crackheads were stumbling all over Darlie's garage and house, back yard, etc, they would have left evidence of their presence in some form.....breakage, disruption, hair, fingerprints, blood smears, eye witnesses like neighbors perhaps who heard them in the alley, etc. No evidence of an intruder means no intruder, or at the very minimum it means no evidence of an intruder so there is no foundation for an intruder theory except pure speculation which isn't worth the powder it would take to blow it up. (Hmm...wonder how much powder it would take to blow up a theory?)

You're not trying to blow holes in my ship are you?

 

[deanws]

I think Darin was aiming for the sewer or even that trashcan. He either didn't see that he'd missed or he did see it, but knew he had to get back. Maybe that was when Darlie screamed "DARIN" He might have heard sirens too.
To think of it as a plant, doesn't help or hurt her. Why would a stranger wear a sock he found in the Routier house on his hand? That means he's got to find a sock and a weapon, but nearly everything they did as a coverup is stupid, so I don't know. I think he was trying to dump it. When do you think she used that sock? The other sock might have been thrown down there too, or did she only use one sock? Does this post make any sense?

Yes, you make sense. I was leaning toward her/him using it as a plant to say....see there...he went that way! :laugh: LOL.....I do think that something went down that drain though. I wonder if it was the shirt that Darin had on? Just because they say he didn't have one on doesn't mean that he didn't. What else could those two have put down the storm drain? We know that she didn't have on socks during the murders, so I am thinking only one sock was used for her...but if they did stuff junk down the drain..why didn't they put the wepon down there? Also, what DID she use the sock for? It couldn't have been used to put on her as she stabbed them because it doesn't have enough blood on it. Maybe she tried to use it once or twice when stabbing them and decided it was too hard to stab them with the sock on her hand. I just can't figure it out.

 

[Goody]

Ok....I will. If it was in Houston, Baytown or the surrounding areas...he could get it opened up easily. He is in the fields somewhere now...I will ask him as soon as he comes in. You are right though...freakier things have happened. Wouldn't it be a hoot to sometime in the future see more evidence turn up?

I would be jumping up and down!!

 

[Goody]

Goody.....make a guess about what you think went down that drain.

Darin's shirt, the other sock to the mate that didn't make it, towels maybe. Stuff they thought incriminated them. If another knife was used, though I seriuosly doubt that, it, too.

 

[Goody]

Goody, that was a joke! Just being silly about why she would rinse the knife. Remember I'm not as funny as I think I am. [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_11.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_8_11.gif[/url]

Hey, I thought it was out there. Missed the humor but that sometimes happens on these boards. Sarcasm doesn't always ring thru the printed letter.

 

[deanws]

I would be jumping up and down!!

Me too!

 

[Goody]

You're not trying to blow holes in my ship are you? [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_23_3.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/26/26_23_3.gif[/url]

Depends on what your mission is. <nudge, nudge, wink, wink>

 

[deanws]

Darin's shirt, the other sock to the mate that didn't make it, towels maybe. Stuff they thought incriminated them. If another knife was used, though I seriuosly doubt that, it, too.

Ohhhhh!!! Yeah....I was just thinking about him wearing a shirt myself. I posted that somewhere. I still can't believe that someone didn't get fired for that mess!!!:doh: :doh: :doh:

 

[Goody]

Yes, you make sense. I was leaning toward her/him using it as a plant to say....see there...he went that way! :laugh: LOL.....I do think that something went down that drain though. I wonder if it was the shirt that Darin had on? Just because they say he didn't have one on doesn't mean that he didn't. What else could those two have put down the storm drain? We know that she didn't have on socks during the murders, so I am thinking only one sock was used for her...but if they did stuff junk down the drain..why didn't they put the wepon down there? Also, what DID she use the sock for? It couldn't have been used to put on her as she stabbed them because it doesn't have enough blood on it. Maybe she tried to use it once or twice when stabbing them and decided it was too hard to stab them with the sock on her hand. I just can't figure it out.

The blood spots are far apart...one on the heel and the other the toe area, I think. The DNA expert said the most common way to leave DNA on a sock is by wearing it (skin cells) and she would have had to have worn it longer than just a few minutes, so that pretty much eliminates her using it as a mitten as she stabbed. It is confusing only because only one sock was found. The scene was not that bloody before she cut her throat and the blood got on the bottoms of her feet. So she could have been stocking footed through the crime and was afraid some slick crime scene expert could find a way to trip her up. It makes more sense to me that she picked up a little blood on her stockings than that she only put a little blood on it to mislead detectives. If the sock was not supposed to be found, it makes Darin getting so bent out of shape about not being told of its existence right away. He knew the cops were trying to get him to trip himself up when they did that and must have been breathing a sigh of relief that he didn't if he even knew at that point that he was still safe.

One more point, I think if saliva had been the DNA source it would have been stronger than just a faint tracing of it.

 

[Goody]

Ohhhhh!!! Yeah....I was just thinking about him wearing a shirt myself. I posted that somewhere. I still can't believe that someone didn't get fired for that mess!!!:doh: :doh: :doh:

Police make mistakes all the time in investigations. It is the human error element. In Manson's case, the cop smudged the bloody fingerprint on the front buzzer to the estate. In another case, a cop flushed the cigarette butts the killer had thrown in the woman's toilet and that evidence was all lost. It happens. Even in big cities where we think police are too well trained to screw up. Look how long Van Nuys PD kept the gun that killed the LaBiancas....a year I think it was after a father and son turned it in after finding it. The man and his son were smart enough to figure it might have been used in a crime and with the biggest crimes in L.A. at the time all over the news, Van Nuys still blew it. And now in the Perry March case we've got a big screw up just as bad. Maybe worse. The jail let the father and son co-conspirators have various meetings unsupervised and not audio taped to continue co-conspiring. It is the biggest case in Nashville history, I think. Even our serial killer didn't get the attention the March case is getting. They have to take extra precautions in dealing with these two because they are devious. It seems everyone but the people in charge get that.

So mistakes happen, what can you do?

 

[deanws]

The blood spots are far apart...one on the heel and the other the toe area, I think. The DNA expert said the most common way to leave DNA on a sock is by wearing it (skin cells) and she would have had to have worn it longer than just a few minutes, so that pretty much eliminates her using it as a mitten as she stabbed. It is confusing only because only one sock was found. The scene was not that bloody before she cut her throat and the blood got on the bottoms of her feet. So she could have been stocking footed through the crime and was afraid some slick crime scene expert could find a way to trip her up. It makes more sense to me that she picked up a little blood on her stockings than that she only put a little blood on it to mislead detectives. If the sock was not supposed to be found, it makes Darin getting so bent out of shape about not being told of its existence right away. He knew the cops were trying to get him to trip himself up when they did that and must have been breathing a sigh of relief that he didn't if he even knew at that point that he was still safe.

One more point, I think if saliva had been the DNA source it would have been stronger than just a faint tracing of it.

Yeah...that makes more sense that what I was thinking so I will go with that. Ok...maybe she took them off to mix the blood trail up after she cut her own throat? Thinking it would be better looking for the cops to see? I don't know. Give me a run down on what you think happened and why. You too Goody! I want to know what yall are thinking between the taking off of the socks and the time the cops arrived.

 

[Goody]

Ohhhhh!!! Yeah....I was just thinking about him wearing a shirt myself. I posted that somewhere. I still can't believe that someone didn't get fired for that mess!!!:doh: :doh: :doh:

I saw it.

You know what is really interesting for me is that i have found that most everything I rejected in the beginning eventually took me right back to what the experts said would be the case, which was usually what I rejected inititally.

I was totally not impressed with the FBI profiler, convinced the sock was a plant, but as I have waded thru th evidence I eventually came to believe that the sock was only a part of what was being thrown away. And that means it was not a plant, but a mistake. That is also what tells us that the garbage can was not the target because nothing else was in it from the Routier home. It was all dead grass, I think. Anyway you either have to believe it is a plant which goes against what we know about most criminals or believe someone was trying to get rid of it.

If it was a plant, Darlie did the opposite of what most criminals do and that goes against her dramatic ways. Darin's too if you include him. If they wanted police to assume the killers had fled away from the house, they would put the plant in an area where they could feel assured it would be found. That would most likely be outside the gate because that is the path they told police the intruder took. Why then place the guy deeper into the subdivision when the obvious escape route would be the subdivision entrance road that ran right next to Routier house? So I am pretty settled on the idea that the sock was part of other items rather than a lone item and they were just darned lucky the investigators didn't make it a priority to check that sewer out thoroughly.

 

[beesy]

Yes, you make sense. I was leaning toward her/him using it as a plant to say....see there...he went that way! :laugh: LOL.....I do think that something went down that drain though. I wonder if it was the shirt that Darin had on? Just because they say he didn't have one on doesn't mean that he didn't. What else could those two have put down the storm drain? We know that she didn't have on socks during the murders, so I am thinking only one sock was used for her...but if they did stuff junk down the drain..why didn't they put the wepon down there? Also, what DID she use the sock for? It couldn't have been used to put on her as she stabbed them because it doesn't have enough blood on it. Maybe she tried to use it once or twice when stabbing them and decided it was too hard to stab them with the sock on her hand. I just can't figure it out.

you posted about the shirt right here sweetie. I really think Darin was shirtless the whole time. Even though it didn't take but a few seconds to make the dump, whoever did was taking a risk. Was planting the sock worth that risk? Was dumping the sock worth the risk, it was to them. A sock would make the knife really slippery and hard to control during a stabbing or even while cutting yourself. Was it used by Darin when he cut the screen? No her DNA was in the sock. Suppose she put it in her mouth for something to bite down on when she cut herself? A fingerprint on the UR door matched his left knuckle area. I'll post this part. I can't tell if the print that matches Darin is the boody one or just a print. They refer to both It starts out discussing the bloody print. Legalize help needed:
"22. The Court finds that the source of the bloody fingerprint located on a door from the crime scene cannot be individualized due to insufficient characteristics. (Langenburg Affidavit at 7).

23. The Court notes that multiple persons were present in the crime scene after the report of the crime and prior to the collection of evidence in this case.

24. The Court finds that Langenburg’s Affidavit does not account for the possibility that one of the other persons known to be in the crime scene deposited the bloody print in question.

25. The Court finds that Lohnes’s Report states that he examined a latent print developed with black powder “left on a portion of a door.” (Lohnes Report 6/3/03).

26. The Court finds the Lohnes’s Report states that he identified the print as belonging to Darin Routier, specifically the second joint of Darin Routier’s left middle finger. (Lohnes Report 6/3/03).

27. The Court finds that the record demonstrates that Darin Routier lived in the home and was present in the home at the time of the murders. (See, e.g., RR.28: 311-12; RR.44: 4872-73).

28. The Court finds that the presence of Darin Routier’s fingerprint inside his own home is not to be unexpected.

29. The Court finds that Applicant has failed to prove by a preponderance of the evidence that Langenburg’s Affidavit and Lohnes’s Report establish that any adult in addition to Applicant or Darin Routier were present in the home at the time of the offense."
http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/rfrancis-final.php