Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Alethea Dice]

I read it both ways, I'm not sure if it was tweeted that Igor said it both ways or the media mixed up the story.

IIRC, it was only one tweet that said DM asked. The other tweets from the same person said it was MS. More than likely, it was just a mistake in the initials typed in by the reporter. JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

The photos are here: http://www.scribd.com/doc/297985453/Bosma-phone-evidence

Have you ever tossed something at the wastebasket knowing full well you were never going to make it in there, but just did it anyway and then got all smug when you nailed it? Okay maybe I'm the only person on the planet that does that - but the point is - a tossed phone, from either a moving vehicle or stationary location can land just about anywhere. Or, bounce off something and land anywhere. Tim's phone being found inside the fence doesn't really seem all that important to me considering we don't really know how it got there. I suspect it was just chucked from somewhere and landed right where it was found.

 

[Alethea Dice]

How do you know where DM's phone was in the morning of May 6? My notes show the first time we were given for it in court was 5:33 p.m. Do you have a link to earlier times for DM's phone on May 6?

I posted two links to the times earlier in this thread (post 280). The morning time was from your blog.

The next day, a crime analyst creates a tower and cell phone map for them. They also got more information on the Bate phone which was in Oakville at 7:24 on the morning of May 6. At 5:13 Tim called the Bate phone. At 7:22, it contacted Tim and then again at 9:04.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/dispatches-from-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial-day-three.html

 

[Gumshew]

No..
Adam Carter Feb 4 2016 3:04 PM
One man identified himself as "Evan" or something along those lines, Tumamenko said. There was also a shorter man, he said, staying off on the side.

Two of the people called, identified the caller as having said his name was either Evan, Even or Avan.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Two of the people called, identified the caller as having said his name was either Evan, Even or Avan.

Thank you, was just about to post the exact same thing.

 

[ABro]

I posted two links to the times earlier in this thread (post 280). The morning time was from your blog.


http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/dispatches-from-the-tim-bosma-murder-trial-day-three.html

The Bate phone was in Oakville in the morning. That's not in dispute. That was what was on my blog.

The problem is that you said the DM phone wasn't in Oakville in the morning. Here's your quote:

"Actually, we only know who was using the phone for the last call. We don't know who was using it for the other calls, such as for when the phone was in Oakville and DM's phone hadn't made it to Oakville yet"

Again, how do you know that DM's phone wasn't in Oakville as you're claiming? No one has a time earlier than just after 5 p.m. for the DM phone. We don't know where it was before that. And you haven't linked anything showing where the DM phone was in the morning of May 6. There has been no testimony about that.

 

[HackD]

Just to clarify, the witness said nothing about concealed or hidden compartments. Only that they were building a trailer and putting "special" compartments in it.

Unless you have a link?

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/millard-employee-sickened-at-discovering-truck-he-feared-belonged-to-missing-tim-bosma-trial-hears

I think the convo got somewhat sideways, when discussion of compartments in the trailer at the hanger came up.

 

[canadiangirl]

We don't know as there hasn't been evidence confirming. If he identified himself on a burner phone it would become clear he wasn't trying to be underhanded. Which is the point his lawyer is trying to make, I think. I also think the phone info is still up for debate, maybe tomorrows testimonies will help further.

I thought Igor said he introduced himself (when he arrived ) as 'Evan' ( Dellen )..will have to check

I think the key word is "burner" phone. I'm not sure how that isn't consider underhanded? Clearly If he wasn't hiding anything surely he'd just use his own phone registered under his own name. Not Lucas Bate.

 

[Tamarind]

Two of the people called, identified the caller as having said his name was either Evan, Even or Avan.

No just Palmilli, was called and name asked and given twice.
Igor said the taller guy introduced himself in person.

 

[Ontario Mom]

The Bate phone was in Oakville.

You said the DM phone wasn't in Oakville in the morning. Here's your quote:



Again, how do you know that DM's phone wasn't in Oakville as you're claiming?

Went back and read the timeline of phone locations and ended up with the same question... since it hasn't been disclosed publicly, how can anyone know where DM's phone was, or wasn't at 7:24am that day?

 

[canadiangirl]

No just Palmilli, was called and name asked and given twice.
Igor said the taller guy introduced himself in person.

Either way it wasn't Dellen. Nor was he using his own phone.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Two of the people called, identified the caller as having said his name was either Evan, Even or Avan.

Actually, Tumanenko said "The taller guy said his name was Evan or Ethan or Avan, Tumanenko told the court." (Ethan doesn't even sound the same to me.)

Palmili said "At one point Palmili asked for the caller's name. "He didn't pronounce it well or he mumbled the name," he said. Something like "Evan or Avn."

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2016/02/04/crown-builds-case-as-tim-bosma-murder-trial-continues.html

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-trial-oh-my-god-could-that-be-the-truck-1.3433214?cmp=rss

No biggie. Anyone can say their name is anything any time.

 

[Kamille]

Two callers idetified the Lucas Bate phone caller as Evan, and that is evidence that has been presented already.

I dunno, sure both names end with -in sounds but DEL and EV are very distinct phonemes.

I believe he calls himself Dell. At least one of his employees calls him this. I have to assume that's how he introduces himself.

The evidence that has been testified to is that he used the name Evan on one call and Evan or Ewan on the other. The witnesses know his given name. Neither have indicated that is the name they heard.

MOO

 

[Tamarind]

I think the key word is "burner" phone. I'm not sure how that isn't consider underhanded? Clearly If he wasn't hiding anything surely he'd just use his own phone registered under his own name. Not Lucas Bate.

I'm not so sure it was his phone IMHO. If he was being underhanded why did he introduce himself as Evan/possibly Dellen? Why not Lucas Bate to follow through with name on phone he allegedly used? So far I haven't seen anything underhanded by DM. Using a phone that may or may not have been his is not enough for me to make an informed opinion.

 

[JuneBug67]

When he explained the Israeli army inference, more likely it gave the accused a clearer picture as to why Igor was not one to be messed with. Just my opinion, but I don't think DM then turning around to look at MS had anything to do about how impressive he thought Igor's knowledge about this type of engine must be.

I don't read much into the look back by DM in this case, because Igor looked back at MS when he said it. It might easily follow that in any context you might try to catch your friend's eye too with a kind of whoa! or private shared amusement at a guy saying something like that. Of course it could be more significant, but not beyond reasonable doubt significant.

 

[Tamarind]

I believe he calls himself Dell. At least one of his employees calls him this. I have to assume that's how he introduces himself.

The evidence that has been testified to is that he used the name Evan on one call and Evan or Ewan on the other. The witnesses know his given name. Neither have indicated that is the name they heard.

MOO

I would think 'Dell' was used by those who knew him, not by new acquaintances. The shortened version of my name is only used by people who know me. I introduce myself with my full name to people I have just met.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Forgive if this sounds like a stupid question but, what is the point, exactly, of this back & forth about Evan/Ewan, etc.?

 

[Tamarind]

I believe he calls himself Dell. At least one of his employees calls him this. I have to assume that's how he introduces himself.

The evidence that has been testified to is that he used the name Evan on one call and Evan or Ewan on the other. The witnesses know his given name. Neither have indicated that is the name they heard.

MOO

One was given a name in person and one on a call. BOTH did not know for sure what the name was for certain. Palmilli claims :



Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 1m1 minute ago
Palmilli says he asked caller his name. "He mumbled...Something like Ethan, Evan, or Ivan." #MillardSmich

Adam Carter
Feb 4 2016 10:17 AM
"He had a very deep masculine voice. When I asked his name, once again he mumbled the name or lowered the tone of his voice and I couldn't get it right."

TWICE the name was said but Palmilli couldn't get it right!

I think the name was freely given in both situations.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Forgive if this sounds like a stupid question but, what is the point, exactly, of this back & forth about Evan/Ewan, etc.?

Yeah, why are we re-writing people's testimony to be something else, and denying that testimony that has been given is the facts of the case?

 

[Alethea Dice]

The Bate phone was in Oakville in the morning. That's not in dispute. That was what was on my blog.

The problem is that you said the DM phone wasn't in Oakville in the morning. Here's your quote:



Again, how do you know that DM's phone wasn't in Oakville as you're claiming? No one has a time earlier than just after 5 p.m. for the DM phone. We don't know where it was before that. And you haven't linked anything showing where the DM phone was in the morning of May 6. There has been no testimony about that.

We already discussed this and whether DM may have had a sleep over at MS's house. I guess we don't know where DM's phone was in the morning, but since they were comparing where the phones were, if it was in Oakville and could be proven, I would think they would have testified to that. All we know about DM's is that it was in Etobicoke late afternoon and went to Oakville that night. Was DM at the hangar throughout that day? Did anyone ask AJ if he was there and what time?