Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

[Tamarind]

Corrected. I'm not quite awake and on my game in the initials department, after a week of the flu.

Maple Gate may have been a primary residence - but it would appear so far in the chronology of events, that it was serving as little more than a mail-drop, in the days immediately after TB's murder.

I think the mail drop inference came mainly from the press after the place was searched by police IIRC. This would have been sometime after May 9th I think.

 

[RandomName479]

Compartments are handy to put things that may get broken along the way. Trips tend to be bumpy when towing a trailer/ winnebago. Tools and items for the races may be stored securely in such compartments, just as kitchen items need to be stored securely in a winnebago.

Is it legal to modify vehicles in such a way? I need to look up the info, but I was under the impression that a modified vehicle such as this can be seized by customs....

 

[HackD]

Just remember folks, only one week (4 days in) on a case expected to take 16 weeks .. that's a mountain of evidence and testimony yet to be revealed - no need for conspiracy to gain an upper hand, when no such evidence yet exists.

..and then there is two more trials, yet to come, which will touch on evidence directly and indirectly related to the DM case.

We ain't seen nothing, yet.

 

[HackD]

Is it legal to modify vehicles in such a way? I need to look up the info, but I was under the impression that a modified vehicle such as this can be seized by customs....

Only if contraband itself is found. A concealed space is nothing more than that, empty, a concealed space. Lots of vehicles have them, it's up to the owner of the vehicle (and his/her creativity) to modify access to them in a manner that isn't readily obvious.

 

[Kamille]

The odd thing about that is - there are so many areas very close by that are just scrub land where there would be far less chance that the phone would be found. This is not an urban setting where most of the land is paved or landscaped. So if ditching the phone, why not throw it out in any of the empty field areas they were passing, where there would be no buildings close by? Just a dumb move? Or was it meant to be found there for some reason?

I have no idea how dark the side of the roadway is at night in that area or what a driver would see beyond the scope of their headlights. That company was set back a ways on the road and I think there was a treeline in view. Hard to say whether someone would realize where they were throwing it. Too bad we don't have a photo from the roadway at night with just headlights lighting up the sides of the road.

Now if it was deliberate, it could have been a plant to keep LE looking for TB and the truck in that area. Obviously there was going to be more of an investigation than just a stolen truck so why not keep it local?

MOO

 

[RandomName479]

Only if contraband itself is found. A concealed space is nothing more than that, empty, a concealed space. Lots of vehicles have them, it's up to the owner of the vehicle (and his/her creativity) to modify access to them in a manner that isn't readily obvious.

Ok. Thanks. If they find contraband in a modified vehicle the vehicle can be seized. That sounds right to me. Until they actually are caught smuggling it isn't technically illegal. But I think most would agree that a modified vehicle would be a huge red flag for customs officers.....generally law abiding citizens do not modify vehicles in such a way....MOO

 

[matou]

This week in court will run from Monday to Friday because Monday the 15th is a holiday (Family Day). So 5 full days of testimony, hopefully.

 

[greenthumb]

I have no idea how dark the side of the roadway is at night in that area or what a driver would see beyond the scope of their headlights. That company was set back a ways on the road and I think there was a treeline in view. Hard to say whether someone would realize where they were throwing it. Too bad we don't have a photo from the roadway at night with just headlights lighting up the sides of the road.

Now if it was deliberate, it could have been a plant to keep LE looking for TB and the truck in that area. Obviously there was going to be more of an investigation than just a stolen truck so why not keep it local?

MOO

Good point about lights in that area at night. I'm fairly close by & will take a drive by after dark some time soon - but I'm fairly certain there would be some kind of lights on and/or around the yard of the building for security purposes. I'm leaning toward it being an intentional red herring.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's really quite fascinating to read the comments from folks (not just here) about this trial. Normally I don't follow trials because the legal language gives me a headache and the way the prosecution and defense set up their strategy just confuses or annoys the heck out of me. This trial though? This one is different, somehow. I don't even know the Bosma family but I feel obligated to follow this trial. I guess in a "we're here with you, Sharlene" sort of way. If any of that makes any sense.

I really want to know if there is video evidence of the vehicle DM and MS arrived in at the Bosma place, and if so, what time it was captured on video coming down that road. It stands to reason (to me anyway) if there is video evidence of Tim's truck and another vehicle following it traveling away from the Bosma residence, there would also be video evidence of the same vehicle arriving or at least on that same road - sometime before 9:04pm when "Lucas Bate" phoned Tim's cell, as (ironically) DM "genuine guy" was walking down Tim's driveway. There are several businesses within a 3 minute drive from the Bosma driveway - that have buildings that set very close to the road. I wonder if it was one of these that had video surveillance?

 

[HackD]

Ok. Thanks. If they find contraband in a modified vehicle the vehicle can be seized. That sounds right to me. Until they actually are caught smuggling it isn't technically illegal. But I think most would agree that a modified vehicle would be a huge red flag for customs officers.....generally law abiding citizens do not modify vehicles in such a way....MOO

You are correct - if the concealed space is found, and it's found to be a deliberate construction, the vehicle would indeed be flagged for any future crossings. Customs would also most likely rip the crap out of your stuff, and tell you to put it back together after finding nothing.

There are multiple reasons for concealed spaces, however - some by design/bodywork, some by accident. I have a custom designed body on a vehicle that gets VERY close scrutiny at the border.. the concealed space had to be made for hiding suspension components from view, and isn't readily accessible. It's always good for a run through the gamma scanner.

 

[SnooperDuper]

This week in court will run from Monday to Friday because Monday the 15th is a holiday (Family Day). So 5 full days of testimony, hopefully.

Actually I expect there will be no court on the Monday, and that's why they will be in on Friday.

 

[matou]

there's court tomorrow, no?

 

[Tamarind]

Is it legal to modify vehicles in such a way? I need to look up the info, but I was under the impression that a modified vehicle such as this can be seized by customs....

I'm sure anything that alerts customs ( doesn't take much these days ) could be seized. Many winnebagos and home made trailers are not built according to any plan (IMHO) so I don't see it not being allowed. Even cars are modified to accommodate owners preferences, but I will be interested if anyone finds the legalities of doing so.

 

[Tamarind]

Just remember folks, only one week (4 days in) on a case expected to take 16 weeks .. that's a mountain of evidence and testimony yet to be revealed - no need for conspiracy to gain an upper hand, when no such evidence yet exists.

..and then there is two more trials, yet to come, which will touch on evidence directly and indirectly related to the DM case.

We ain't seen nothing, yet.

Apparently someone had said that there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a case re WM. I think it was SnooperDuper who mentioned this, I could be wrong of course. It will also be interesting to see how far the LB trial gets. JMO. Naturally with these other two cases being at some point in the future, I doubt that this case will be related. Thats just my opinion of course.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Apparently someone had said that there may not be enough evidence to proceed with a case re WM. I think it was SnooperDuper who mentioned this, I could be wrong of course. It will also be interesting to see how far the LB trial gets. JMO. Naturally with these other two cases being at some point in the future, I doubt that this case will be related. Thats just my opinion of course.

A judge rules if there is enough evidence to proceed in the WM case on March 4, 2016.

The LB case is a direct indictment so it has already been judged that the trial will proceed.

 

[Tamarind]

A judge rules if there is enough evidence to proceed in the WM case on March 4, 2016.

The LB case is a direct indictment so it has already been judged that the trial will proceed.

Thank you for the update, much appreciated.

 

[greenthumb]

I'm sure anything that alerts customs ( doesn't take much these days ) could be seized. Many winnebagos and home made trailers are not built according to any plan (IMHO) so I don't see it not being allowed. Even cars are modified to accommodate owners preferences, but I will be interested if anyone finds the legalities of doing so.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/how-to-sniff-out-a-gun-smuggler

According to this article, BC has an "Armoured Vehicle and Aftermarket Compartment Control Act, which allows for fines up to $10,000 and six months in jail for people convicted of driving an armoured vehicle or having a secret compartment in their vehicle."

Quite interesting info. IMO, in general, it would not be economical to go to the expense to modify a vehicle unless to make a profit through transport of contraband/illegal products rather than to just enhance storage space. I haven't been successful in locating any similar laws for Ontario yet.

 

[Tamarind]

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/how-to-sniff-out-a-gun-smuggler

According to this article, BC has an "Armoured Vehicle and Aftermarket Compartment Control Act, which allows for fines up to $10,000 and six months in jail for people convicted of driving an armoured vehicle or having a secret compartment in their vehicle."

Quite interesting info. IMO, in general, it would not be economical to go to the expense to modify a vehicle unless to make a profit through transport of contraband/illegal products rather than to just enhance storage space. I haven't been successful in locating any similar laws for Ontario yet.

In my opinion, it wouldn't be too expensive if one was doing the modifying themselves. I can think of a few innocent situations that would have a benefit by extra storage. Even transporting certain birthday/christmas presents and food causes problems when there is no secure space to put them. All JMO.

 

[Snowglobe]

I keep wondering how much more we'll hear about the Lucas Bate phone. We know it was used for specific calls leading up to the Bosma murder. What else was it used for, and what became of it. Was it a single-purpose phone or not? Were all calls truck-related? This is what I want to know when court resumes. And of course, there's that Mississauga call, not to a lawyer.

Not only are there records of numbers called from a person's service provider, and tge pings mentioned already, there is metadata for smartphones. Any recordings of conversations would tell us a thing or two, if they exist.

Was Lucas Bate phoning anyone known to DM/MS on the personal side?

 

[Ontario Mom]

I keep wondering how much more we'll hear about the Lucas Bate phone. We know it was used for specific calls leading up to the Bosma murder. What else was it used for, and what became of it. Was it a single-purpose phone or not? Were all calls truck-related? This is what I want to know when court resumes. And of course, there's that Mississauga call, not to a lawyer.

Not only are there records of numbers called from a person's service provider, and tge pings mentioned already, there is metadata for smartphones. Any recordings of conversations would tell us a thing or two, if they exist.

Was Lucas Bate phoning anyone known to DM/MS on the personal side?

Good questions. He bought it in March - so a full two months before Tim Bosma's murder he was in possession of a phone that he registered a fake name & address for.