Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[MsSherlock]

I am curious if they have the gun? According to MM Smich hid the gun in the forest..so you would think if he was not the one to shoot the gun and DM shot the gun..Smich would tell LE where the gun was don't you think? Because DM's prints would be all over it? DNA?

Wouldn't it be awesome if the gun showed up? Wishful thinking? I'm sure stranger things have happened. As the evidence unfolds, if it's something Dungey feels will be important to MS's case, MS may get some instant recall? But then again, maybe MS was strung out or something and really doesn't remember where in the forest he buried it. MOO

 

[Coldpizza]

Tim Bosma Trial Tweets Days 1-8

Susan Clairmont

Molly Hayes

Mark Carcasole

 

[Variant]

I am curious if they have the gun? According to MM Smich hid the gun in the forest..so you would think if he was not the one to shoot the gun and DM shot the gun..Smich would tell LE where the gun was don't you think? Because DM's prints would be all over it? DNA?

Smich's prints would be on the gun from transferring it from the box and burying it, if not he would have cleaned it so no one's prints would be found.

Since he has been charged with first degree murder and has pleaded not guilty he wouldn't want to lead LE to this evidence even if it did only have DM's prints (unless you choose to believe that he is a criminal genius who has set up an elaborate framing of DM).

 

[Tamarind]

TB's truck is a pick up truck- the part at the back is referred to as "a box". Then we have a bloody tarp? MOO

Yes I know its a pick up truck. The box is a rectangular storage compartment that can be removed from the pick up truck. I am asking if there was any testimony about this removable box.

 

[Tamarind]

The box cutter would have been introduced by prosecution as a murder weapon if this were the scenario. They would also have presented testing for blood residue on and inside the box cutter.

I don't think it necessarily would have been introduced as a murder weapon if they wanted to maintain the gun allegation. There may have been a couple of box cutters there, maybe TB used them for his own work. That doesn't deter from he fact that something else may have occurred in my opinion.

 

[Tamarind]

I somewhat disagree that all posts are speculative and opinion based at this point. Lots of posts over the past 2 weeks have been based on the evidence that's been presented to the Jury. IMO, evidence from cell signal experts and forensic experts and repeated or referenced on this forum are not speculative. MOO

There may be cell signal experts about signals. They can't be experts on the calls from and to whom. But that is not what I was saying. This is what I said :

''The allegations about what I have posted, and what others post at this point are speculative as no evidence has been confirmed about a gun. ''

The subject was gun evidence or lack of


HTH

 

[Tamarind]

Smich's prints would be on the gun from transferring it from the box and burying it, if not he would have cleaned it so no one's prints would be found.

Since he has been charged with first degree murder and has pleaded not guilty he wouldn't want to lead LE to this evidence even if it did only have DM's prints (unless you choose to believe that he is a criminal genius who has set up an elaborate framing of DM).

He is on trial also, so he isn't that genius.

 

[SnooperDuper]

After being active with this WS case right from the beginning, I don't believe that any of us ever thought we'd hear the cell phone information that we heard this week. The intricate mapping of the movement of all of these cell phones gives us such an incredible picture of the physical movements of the key players. Can you imagine what our sleuthing would have looked like if we had this info anytime over the last 3 years.

Oh no not me! I went on and on about digital trails and who there would be a map of everywhere they went based on cell phones for months if not years! So, totally expected - but I have a suspicion that DM did not at all suspect this presentation if all that he got as disclosure was a raw data dump of calls made and towers accessed. I don't think LE owed the defgence their 60-hour interpretation of the data as that would institute LE's bias on the data. So, likely DM knew they had a pile of data but had no inkling of what it all meant until the presentation was given at trial. Thus, a glum afternoon. IMO.

What did I learn this week that I didn't see coming? The trips by DM & MS between the hangar and the farm on the 7th. After the Crown said the incinerator was used at the hangar I automatically assumed that the cleanup would have been there as well. My thinking was pretty simplistic- they had stolen a truck, killed the occupant and used the incinerator to get rid of the body. Aside for stripping the truck, what did they really have to do on the 7th? It's obvious that they didn't spend hours pressure washing and scrubbing down the truck- all of which would have been possible in the hangar- and it's apparent that they had a lot of work to do at the farm. How long would it take to empty an incinerator? Leaves me with a lot of questions. MOO

I'm surprised that they ended up doing all their dirty work at the hangar with some trips out to the farm for support material. After all there is security video in the hangar and its environs and none at all out at the farm.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I am curious if they have the gun? According to MM Smich hid the gun in the forest..so you would think if he was not the one to shoot the gun and DM shot the gun..Smich would tell LE where the gun was don't you think? Because DM's prints would be all over it? DNA?

Not if Smich can't find the thing again.

 

[EspressoBean]

bbm
Thank you for mention of AG! Because LE took her nice white fast Camaro for forensic investigation, there may have been something special with this car in connection with the murder. My POI No. 1 is another person, but I'm very open minded since I thought again about MS and his hoodie and his backpack and his being on feet without nearby car and his dog-caring at least at his home and his car interest and his lack of money.

Where is the evidence that says MS carried a backpack? Unless I am confused, I thought it was testified by witnesses in cross that they did not see him carrying a backpack. I don't think a hoodie and a backpack would be very exclusive to MS. And Ancaster is out of MS usual area on his own. He relied on others to get places.

 

[Stratocaster]

I would assume we hear evidence in the near future about the eventual discovery of the incinerator at the farm as the case unfolds for the jury, does anyone have the date that LE went to the farm and discovered the incinerator? If I can remember right from nearly three years ago the grass was scorched where the incinerator had initially sat before being moved by DM, wonder why the grass was charred, sounds like something didn't go right MOO

 

[kramkat]

Yes I know its a pick up truck. The box is a rectangular storage compartment that can be removed from the pick up truck. I am asking if there was any testimony about this removable box.

MsSherlock was referring to the back of the truck, which is also called a box or bed. Not an actual rectangular storage compartment box that could be removed. There was no mention of such a "cardboard" box. MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

I would assume we hear evidence in the near future about the eventual discovery of the incinerator at the farm as the case unfolds for the jury, does anyone have the date that LE went to the farm and discovered the incinerator? If I can remember right from nearly three years ago the grass was scorched where the incinerator had initially sat before being moved by DM, wonder why the grass was charred, sounds like something didn't go right MOO

"On May 11th, the day before the police recovered Tim Bosma’s truck in the driveway of Dellen Millard’s mother’s residence (May 12th), the police searched a farm property owned by Dellen Millard in Ayr, Ontario, just outside Cambridge. While police were executing the search warrant they located a cremation device, the Eliminator."

From the Crown's opening statement posted here http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

 

[EspressoBean]

In some random sleuthing about dates and events and how the trial is being presented, I noticed some corresponding dates.
September 9th, 2013, police return to the Millard farm in Ayr after learning new information that led them there.
September 18th, 2013 is the day the officer tailed CN to obtain cast off DNA.
It lends me to think that the need for her DNA is related to the new information or something discovered during that later farm search.
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

 

[ArianeEmory]

I would assume we hear evidence in the near future about the eventual discovery of the incinerator at the farm as the case unfolds for the jury, does anyone have the date that LE went to the farm and discovered the incinerator? If I can remember right from nearly three years ago the grass was scorched where the incinerator had initially sat before being moved by DM, wonder why the grass was charred, sounds like something didn't go right MOO

Someone will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong, but IIRC the 'scorched grass' info was never from a primary LE source, it was either a neighbor or 'unnamed source'. (I know that doesn't make it NOT true, just clarifying.)

 

[loveisthemovement]

I don't need there to be a body for evidence to convince me that a gun shot wound was the COD. There seems to be an implication that because Tim's body was unable to be examined, that the determined COD is speculative. The GSR and amount of blood in the area of the truck where Tim was sitting, along with a spent bullet casing, is enough for beyond a reasonable doubt for me.

 

[redheart]

In some random sleuthing about dates and events and how the trial is being presented, I noticed some corresponding dates.
September 9th, 2013, police return to the Millard farm in Ayr after learning new information that led them there.
September 18th, 2013 is the day the officer tailed CN to obtain cast off DNA.
It lends me to think that the need for her DNA is related to the new information or something discovered during that later farm search.
http://globalnews.ca/news/828217/tim-bosma-toronto-police-once-again-searching-dellen-millards-farm/

Interesting. Good catch.

 

[Gumshew]

[/B]

He is on trial also, so he isn't that genius.

True. So far, according to evidence, we know two things for sure; a murder was committed, and, not just MS, but all the people surrounding the murder had a severe lack of genius, to say the least.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I would assume we hear evidence in the near future about the eventual discovery of the incinerator at the farm as the case unfolds for the jury, does anyone have the date that LE went to the farm and discovered the incinerator? If I can remember right from nearly three years ago the grass was scorched where the incinerator had initially sat before being moved by DM, wonder why the grass was charred, sounds like something didn't go right MOO

The incinerator could have been moved when it was still hot, scorching the grass.

 

[MsSherlock]

Oh no not me! I went on and on about digital trails and who there would be a map of everywhere they went based on cell phones for months if not years! So, totally expected - but I have a suspicion that DM did not at all suspect this presentation if all that he got as disclosure was a raw data dump of calls made and towers accessed. I don't think LE owed the defgence their 60-hour interpretation of the data as that would institute LE's bias on the data. So, likely DM knew they had a pile of data but had no inkling of what it all meant until the presentation was given at trial. Thus, a glum afternoon. IMO.



I'm surprised that they ended up doing all their dirty work at the hangar with some trips out to the farm for support material. After all there is security video in the hangar and its environs and none at all out at the farm.

I stand corrected Snooper- you were definitely on the digital end of things right from the get go!!! Guess my mind was foggy considering all the discussions surrounding every possible conspiracy theory over a 3 year span. For 3 years there have been those who have felt that DM's wealth, education and incredible business acumen left him susceptible to those who were jealous of his success or were there to take advantage of his generosity.

As a fellow sleuther Snooper, I have to commend you- your sleuthing work is excellent and you've been right on many, many, many occasions!! MOO