Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #2

[kramkat]

But wouldn't you think a fire outside near the hangar could attract attention? The last thing the perps would want to do is attract attention kwim. Imagine someone calling 911 to report a fire :O IMO they burned the seats in the incinerator also. Does anyone recall the dimensions of the incinerator door off hand? Wonder what the dimensions of the truck seats were?
ALL MOO.

I am trying to remember dimensions, but it definitely is not very big. IMO I don't think the seats would fit. I am wondering if the scorch marks at the farm are from the seats? :moo:

Also FWIW, in Breslau, where the airport is, residents are allowed to have "personal fires" on their property. So it would not be too uncommon/unusual to see a "campfire".

 

[Kamille]

This weekend marks not only Valentine's Day and Family Day, but would also have been the couple's sixth wedding anniversary.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...gators-saw-blood-on-items-from-bosma-s-truck/

Wow...that's got to be tough.

 

[swedie]

I am trying to remember dimensions, but it definitely is not very big. IMO I don't think the seats would fit. I am wondering if the scorch marks at the farm are from the seats? :moo:

Also FWIW, in Breslau, where the airport is, residents are allowed to have "personal fires" on their property. So it would not be too uncommon/unusual to see a "campfire".

IIRC I thought the door dimensions were something like 24"X24" or 22". Did they use a torch perhaps? If they had something to contain the seats in, outside the hangar or on the asphalt... But I would still think that might attract attention. :dunno: MOO.

 

[Tamarind]

The letters occurred over a length of time while DM was in jail and while CN was on DM's "no contact" list. IMHO, DM was fully aware that it was a crime to have any communication with CN and perhaps it's antics like this that require him to be kept in segregation. MOO


"For example, in one such letter to his girlfriend, Mr. Millard wrote the following: “If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence , he would want to change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them.”

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/tim-bosma-trial-the-crowns-opening-statement.html

Segregation for that doesn't make sense IMO, so like I said I doubt segregation is anything to do with letters. JMO. It will be interesting to see if the letters are actually addressed to anyone, maybe they will be exhibited at some point. The jails can and do censor mail, so they can prevent such letters being sent, they wouldn't need segregation to effect that IMO.

 

[Kamille]

I am trying to remember dimensions, but it definitely is not very big. IMO I don't think the seats would fit. I am wondering if the scorch marks at the farm are from the seats? :moo:

Also FWIW, in Breslau, where the airport is, residents are allowed to have "personal fires" on their property. So it would not be too uncommon/unusual to see a "campfire".

I also don't think the incinerator is built to be used for large bulky and ridgid, non pliable items. Not to mention how difficult it would have been to remove them via the same door, especially with the heat the metal frames would have gotten up to, if that would even have been possible. I would think that the "item" to be incinerated is to fit into a chamber within the unit. I don't think the entire unit is the chamber. And there likely would be evidence of something other than human cremains in the "vault".

I believe that both front seats and the back bench part of the seat were burned?

The hangar is in a very isolated area. Other than the luck of one "neighbour" having surveillance, which was a business and therefore no actual person was there to witness anything overnight, I wouldn't think burning the seats individually wouldn't constitute that large of a fire and that it would probably burn out very quickly once the upholstery and filling was burned.

MOO

 

[Tamarind]

No specific dates, but after DM was in custody (May 10) and whenever LE searched CN's bedroom and found the letters:

from:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-court-day1-millard-smich-trial-.3426062
PS: What "ways" are you aware of?

I am guessing that this would be very early on when witnesses were being questioned. It is possible that a witness was unsure of what he/she thought they knew. I doubt the lawyer was involved. People do contact others via friends and relatives, that would be one way. But without seeing the letters it is hard to tell. I don't think letters addressed to CN would have got past the jail JMO. It would also have been a breach of conditions and I haven't heard that DM has breached his conditions.

 

[Ontario Mom]

You are right, not everything hits the news. But, I am very doubtful that any mail was addressed to CN from the jail JMO. I also think there are enough reporters and journalists working around the courthouses to check the names on the dockets. JMO

So, in your opinion, how did CN receive the letters from DM, while he was in jail?

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am guessing that this would be very early on when witnesses were being questioned. It is possible that a witness was unsure of what he/she thought they knew. I doubt the lawyer was involved. People do contact others via friends and relatives, that would be one way. But without seeing the letters it is hard to tell. I don't think letters addressed to CN would have got past the jail JMO. It would also have been a breach of conditions and I haven't heard that DM has breached his conditions.

So you're speculating that DM (possibly??) sent letters to friends and relatives that weren't on the no contact list, with letters enclosed specifically to CN (who WAS on the no contact list) and these folks made sure she got the letters, despite the no contact list?

And in so doing, certainly didn't breach his conditions because, golly-gee-williker your honor, I just sent letters to friends and what they did with them after that wasn't in my control at all?

:facepalm:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

"For example, in one such letter to his girlfriend, Mr. Millard wrote the following: “If he knew his words were going to get me a life sentence , he would want to change them. Show him how he can, and he will change them.”

bbm
I would like to learn: Why did CN know how "to show him - the witness/friend - how he can change his words"???

 

[MsSherlock]

I am guessing that this would be very early on when witnesses were being questioned. It is possible that a witness was unsure of what he/she thought they knew. I doubt the lawyer was involved. People do contact others via friends and relatives, that would be one way. But without seeing the letters it is hard to tell. I don't think letters addressed to CN would have got past the jail JMO. It would also have been a breach of conditions and I haven't heard that DM has breached his conditions.

I'm officially going to call DM's defence the "Ignorance is bliss" defence. IMHO, DM is charged with 1st degree murder- CN is charged with Assessory after the fact- those are 2 pretty big charges. IMO, I don't know and really don't care how DM was getting letters to CN and at this point there's no need to speculate. The Crown has indicated that they intend to show the Jury that this indeed happened and CN will be testifying, giving us a first hand accounting of how DM communicated with her.

It's not a question of wondering if the Crown will produce these letters, it's a question of WHEN. So, IMHO, they have a darn good reason to keep DM in segregation and he deserves to be there. There's always this fear that poor DM won't get a fair trial, but how about thinking of the man who died- IMHO, TB, his family and society deserves justice and DM trying to tamper with witnesses while in jail is nothing more than a selfish attempt to obstruct justice. MOO

 

[Juballee]

I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but is it possible that the blood on the undercarriage came from the truck driving through tall grass that had blood on it, or from brushing up against a tarp with blood on it?

Another possibilty would be if drops of blood fell from the bolt holes while driving, it would be possible for the drips to hit another lower part of the underside of the truck if it was driving fast. The trail pattern of the blood could also be described as being made while in motion if that were the case.

For some reason, I imagine the Justice's interjection about being unsure if that witness is qualified to say that will mean that that particular topic might not get brought up again for a while, until the right expert is on the stand.

 

[MsSherlock]

DM's "Ignorance is Bliss" defence:
1) I had lots of money to buy a truck- I didn't know MS was going to kill the owner.
2) I was tired that night and gave the keys to the hangar to MS. He wanted to play with my incinerator, so I gave him the owners manual for that as well.
3) I was surprised to find out that MS had bought the truck for me- but I wanted a red one- so I called my paint guy to get it painted asap.
4) MS was upset that he had dropped a cigarette and the inside got burned up badly.
5) MS told me that he had a nose bleed in the truck and was so stoned that he was shooting at lights from inside the truck- making a big mess.
6) I was so excited that I wanted to show my mom what MS had got me- so I got my girlfriend to help me take it to mom's house.
7) My girlfriend helped me organize the my barn that night as well- it's hard to decorate around an incinerator.
8) I thought LE were looking for MS when they came to see me- I was more than cordial
9) I was shocked when they arrested me- they may as well have accused me of going to the moon!!
10) I was just writing imaginary love letters to my GF while I was in jail because I missed her and I knew I couldn't have contact with her- but there was this owl that would come flying into the jail and my letters kept disappearing.
MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

The part about the owl makes the most sense to me. Yep, I'm convinced.

 

[MsSherlock]

The part about the owl makes the most sense to me. Yep, I'm convinced.

Oh, and I forgot #11- I'm a wealthy, generous, successful guy and there's this guy- I think his name is "Lucas" and he's been stalking me for a very long time. He's always following me- seemed to know where I was going, what trucks I was going to test drive, to the point where I felt confident that if I showed up at a certain time for a test drive that this Lucas guy had already arranged an appointment for me! I think LE should be trying to track this guy down asap!!! MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I don't know if it's been brought up yet, but is it possible that the blood on the undercarriage came from the truck driving through tall grass that had blood on it, or from brushing up against a tarp with blood on it?

Another possibilty would be if drops of blood fell from the bolt holes while driving, it would be possible for the drips to hit another lower part of the underside of the truck if it was driving fast. The trail pattern of the blood could also be described as being made while in motion if that were the case.

For some reason, I imagine the Justice's interjection about being unsure if that witness is qualified to say that will mean that that particular topic might not get brought up again for a while, until the right expert is on the stand.

Lots of possibilities but IMO, we're going to hear from an expert who will let us know how the blood could have gotten there and what actions would cause the blood locations and patterns. Doesn't stop anyone from speculating, but the fact is there was blood all over the truck. Inside, outside, underside- lots and lots of blood evidence.

The question I have is how would 1 gunshot wound cause so much blood to be all over the place, considering that TB would have been clothed and there would be a certain amount of absorption in his clothing so I can't imagine the truck pooling up with blood and dripping all over the place- IMO, he wouldn't have lost all the blood in his body-curious to find out how it did get all over the place. MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Lots of possibilities but IMO, we're going to hear from an expert who will let us know how the blood could have gotten there and what actions would cause the blood locations and patterns. Doesn't stop anyone from speculating, but the fact is there was blood all over the truck. Inside, outside, underside- lots and lots of blood evidence.

The question I have is how would 1 gunshot wound cause so much blood to be all over the place, considering that TB would have been clothed and there would be a certain amount of absorption in his clothing so I can't imagine the truck pooling up with blood and dripping all over the place- IMO, he wouldn't have lost all the blood in his body-curious to find out how it did get all over the place. MOO

I guess it would depend on where he sustained the bullet wound. Not to mention, clothes can only absorb so much before they no longer do. I would think shooting someone in a confined space like the cab of a truck would leave a HUGE mess because there's just no where else for the blood to go. I don't really like to go into details because I know there are some close to the Bosma's reading here so I'll say WARNING: GRAPHIC first in case they don't want to see this.

If he was shot in the head, there would be a lot of blood. Head wounds bleed more profusely than wounds elsewhere on the body. Not to mention the spatter caused by the gunshot, and the amount of blood that would have exited his body (man I hate typing this!) between the time he was shot, and whenever they removed him from the cab of the truck. Not to mention how much more of a transfer of blood THEY made by just moving him. We don't know how long that was or when they removed him but we can speculate he was in there long enough to make a huge mess - enough to cause them to burn the seats and the carpeting. Really, they would have needed to be crime scene clean up experts to get all the blood (drops, pooled, smears, spatter) out of the cab of that truck.

moo.

Editing to add: we also don't know if it was just 1 gunshot wound. For all we know, he was shot more than once.

 

[SnooperDuper]

All I can think to say about the letters is that CN has been wearing an ankle bracelet to remind her of her perilous future since she was bailed. She also had a short stint behind bars so she has had a taste of what she's in for.

At this point, I think she will spill everything she knows about the letters and the crime to save herself.

That means throwing DM under the bus, but I wonder who else will join him? I.e., when CN made the decision to support DM, did she do that alone? Did others encourage her to hide the details of the crime for DM's benefit? After all, DM has had a lot of support it seems in that SS was willing to keep his secrets, maybe too AM.

I wonder if there will be any charges for anyone else coming out of this once CN's testimony is heard.

I also wonder about the penalty for CN - TLM did not get a break after testifying...will CN have enough information to make things all better for her?

 

[SnooperDuper]

Can't but feel for CN's mother. Here she thought her daughter had a beautiful life ahead of her with her millionaire CEO boyfriend....

...turns out there is no business and DM is CEO of putting up wall trim...

 

[matou]

CN wasn't cooperative with investigators when she was arrested though. She knew what LE had when they searched her place, her phone, etc. Why was she charged at the same time that the charges came out for the murders of Laura Babcock and Wayne Millard? Did she give LE info they needed for those investigations (either directly or indirectly) but ended up with accessory charges for Tim Bosma's murder? It can't be a coincidence. JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

Can't but feel for CN's mother. Here she thought her daughter had a beautiful life ahead of her with her millionaire CEO boyfriend....

...turns out there is no business and DM is CEO of putting up wall trim...

I get what you're saying. With CN's affiliation with all things DM, in the google world, it could be especially hard when you're a parent and independent business person sharing the family name. Things were a bit easier for KH's family, because they themselves were victims- not the case here. Even RW was concerned about his wife- as bizarre as that sounds. DM and MS will have destroyed a lot of lives by the time this trial is over. Some may be behind bars, others will have to deal with it everyday on the outside. JMHO