Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #4

[Juballee]

I too, suspect LE knew of the outgoing letters and let them pile up. I don't think they could have seized them if CN weren't on the dnc list.
LW may have trouble getting clients now with this lousy publicity.

I haven't seen any of the articles, are the MSM treating her as if she is a liar as well? Was it just over her confusion about the amounts for the race or was there something else she changed her testimony about?

Is it possible that when they were talking about the race she only heard them say the entry fee was eighteen, and it was her assumption that it was eighteen thousand when they meant eighteen hundred?

I'm still curious if LE or crown checked the entry fee at the time she made her statement in 2013, or any time prior to trial, to know that she had inadvertently added a zero to the price. I am really wondering if someone related to the trial read the accurate price here before she went back on the stand the second day, I suppose.

My opinion only.

 

[MsSherlock]

Why do I always forget that MS was charged for sending letters to his girlfriend! Thanks for the reminder. When this happened, I always assumed that DM would be charged for the same thing any day. But he never was, was he? Is that weird, that they would charge one and not the other for apparently doing the same thing?

Looking back, I would have assumed that this charge came up when CN was charged, in the second wave of charges, in April of 2014. But this article says he was charged in January of 2015, how strange. When was MWJ charged again? I wonder if they have any of the letters MS wrote to MM, and if they were still together then, almost 2 years after his arrest, do we know if they still are now?

Wait a minute!! MS was never charged with sending letters to MM- please supply a link for this!! Secondly, in the Crowns Opening Statements they say that DM was sending letters to CN, letters that had requested her to get someone to change their statement. That is a fact. MS was charged with breaching his "no contact list" which MM was on. We have not heard exactly how he did this but once again, if you do know, please supply a link!! MOO

 

[MsSherlock]

I haven't seen any of the articles, are the MSM treating her as if she is a liar as well? Was it just over her confusion about the amounts for the race or was there something else she changed her testimony about?

Is it possible that when they were talking about the race she only heard them say the entry fee was eighteen, and it was her assumption that it was eighteen thousand when they meant eighteen hundred?

I'm still curious if LE or crown checked the entry fee at the time she made her statement in 2013, or any time prior to trial, to know that she had inadvertently added a zero to the price. I am really wondering if someone related to the trial read the accurate price here before she went back on the stand the second day, I suppose.

My opinion only.

Oh, I'd say her memory was pretty fresh when she gave the statement to LE on May 14th, 2013. But the strangest thing happened. Court was adjourned for the afternoon and by the next morning when LW took the stand again her memory wasn't quite as fresh as it was the day before. How she could remember all that talk about the Baja race and then capitulate to DM's D's suggestion that it was actually $1800 is anyones guess. Must have been the long drive back to Woodbridge. MOO

"On May 3, 2013 — just three days before Tim vanished — Williams went to a meeting at Millardair, she says."

She also said Millard and Schlatman were discussing "going back to do another race" in Mexico. Millard enjoyed his previous race experience so much he had the words: "Desert Baja Racing" tattooed on his arm, something the jury has seen in his arrest photos.

Racing in the Baja is not cheap. Williams told the court the entry fee alone is about $18,000, plus the cost of towing a Jeep down, gas, hotel, food ..

"In her statement to police back on May 14, 2013 (four days after Millard's arrest), she told police that money at the company was "very tight."

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/634...a-trial-hears-about-accused-killer-s-finances
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...ardair-bookkeeper-says-money-was-very-tight-/

 

[SnooperDuper]

A new charge has been laid against one of Tim Bosma's accused killers for allegedly breaching a court order not to have contact with his girlfriend.

Mark Smich was charged Monday by Det. Mark Carbone of the Toronto police homicide unit. Documents filed with the courthouse in Etobicoke say the alleged breach of recognizance happened between April 10 and July 31 of last year while Smich was in custody at the Toronto West Detention Centre.

There is a court order banning the publication of the girlfriend's name.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/

 

[Arnie M]

.

No doubt M.Air & associates were "cash poor" for a while but that does not mean "broke" ... there were still plenty of assets , most of which have now been sold and turned into cash or other investments

Presuming the sale of Riverside dr paid most of the 3.7M loan , that left the hangar , farm , and MapleCourt house which were sold ... could be anywhere from $6 to $8 million depending on how much they got for the new hangar ... plus there is the distillery condo and MB most likely owned her own home .... so a couple million to the lawyers and still plenty left over.

The daily bookkeeper talking about peanuts is not an indication of net worth.

.

 

[MsSherlock]

It appears that both domain names, Millardair.com and Millardair.ca, which were both registered to MA, expired and were not renewed on February 21st of this month, 2016. Millardair.ca seems to have been purchased by someone in Toronto as of Feb 24, 2016. Looks like GoDaddy picked up the other one.

https://whois.net/

MOO

IMO, that's partially correct. I'm not aware if millardair.com was ever a domain name used by Millardair, however, millardair.ca did have a website attached to it. According to the whois report, it was initially registered on Feb 21, 2013 for a 4 year term (expiry Feb 21, 2017) so it has not expired- domain names are paid for in advance. But there was a change to it, coincidently the day LW was on the stand- February 24/16, so there is a possibility that it was sold or transferred, just no way of confirming what the change was.

 

[MsSherlock]

RBBM

Is that true, are all the potential witnesses warned to avoid the media until they testify? I know that they are not allowed to attend court until they have had their turn, but is this to say that MB hasn't been following along on the media or even here, for example?

Just curious, as I was thinking earlier as I read through the thread that any potential witnesses reading here might be terrified to testify, knowing that they will likely be eviserated for things as inconsequential as their choice of clothes that day, or fear that a likely unfounded suspicion of them may now potentially ruin their careers.

All my opinion only.

IMO, if I was going to be a witness in this trial and was following MSM, I'd be terrified of DM's defence team. I felt sorry for LW up there on the stand as Sachak made her agree to his demeaning statements about how she was uneducated, unknowing, incapable, incompetent, ignorant, self-learned etc etc. This was a woman who had taken time out of her days to go and visit DM in jail, an obvious friend of his mothers and Sachak was ripping her apart. IMHO, that was horrible. DM probably spent more money buying a bell for his e-bike than he payed her for her 10 hours of work and he's content to allow his D to ruin her reputation in a few hours on the stand. Seems like everyone can go down except DM. MOO

 

[Arnie M]

.

As far as how DM got letters to CN .... for all we know he passed them through his first lawyer and they got caught doing it .... remember the big kerfuffle in court a couple of years ago ... hints of conflicts ... judge told them to go out in the hallway and fight it out .... next thing we know the famous lawyer is off the case.

.

 

[Gibson67]

It was not clear in court what her company's name was. I wrote in my notes NGM at the time and then realized later it was Engium.

A lot of reporters who weren't clear on the name probably just preferred to leave it out.

The witness's testimony around this issue was confusing and the Crown did not seek to clear it up.

All the lawyers on this case are very well prepared. They are not forgetting to ask obvious questions. And it would be a mistake to assume they are. I can't stress this enough. This is a huge case for them.

Are the trial transcript not being made available to reporters? I is that because of things that are said when jury is out of the room?

 

[billandrew]

As far as how DM got letters to CN .... for all we know he passed them through his first lawyer and they got caught doing it .... remember the big kerfuffle in court a couple of years ago ... hints of conflicts ... judge told them to go out in the hallway and fight it out .... next thing we know the famous lawyer is off the case.

I've always wondered about Deepak Paradkar's split with DM. Apparently he was never officially retained by DM, but it's not clear to me which side was holding off. Was DM unwilling or unable to pay Paradkar's high fees? Was Paradkar unwilling to take a case that he didn't think he could win? Or was it simply based on a conflict between them?

FWIW, I was discussing this with my own lawyer and he said Pillay has a reputation for taking the cases other criminal defense lawyers won't touch.

 

[Kamille]

IMO, that's partially correct. I'm not aware if millardair.com was ever a domain name used by Millardair, however, millardair.ca did have a website attached to it. According to the whois report, it was initially registered on Feb 21, 2013 for a 4 year term (expiry Feb 21, 2017) so it has not expired- domain names are paid for in advance. But there was a change to it, coincidently the day LW was on the stand- February 24/16, so there is a possibility that it was sold or transferred, just no way of confirming what the change was.

If you check the archives of the way back machine, you'll see that both domain names come up with the same website. They owned both it appears, .ca and .com

I saw the expiry dates as 2016 before they were updated. Unfortunately I did not take a screenshot but that is my recollection. Both were registered to MillardAir on Jetliner. Both have expired and been renewed by their respective new owners for one year IMO.

MOO

 

[Errrr]

I've always wondered about Deepak Paradkar's split with DM. Apparently he was never officially retained by DM, but it's not clear to me which side was holding off. Was DM unwilling or unable to pay Paradkar's high fees? Was Paradkar unwilling to take a case that he didn't think he could win? Or was it simply based on a conflict between them?

FWIW, I was discussing this with my own lawyer and he said Pillay has a reputation for taking the cases other criminal defense lawyers won't touch.

Remember Paradkar is also the lawyer for Big Iish who DM sold out, if that might be a conflict?

 

[Gumshew]

Remember Paradkar is also the lawyer for Big Iish who DM sold out, if that might be a conflict?

It's probably the reason Paradkar was sacked by DM. It's a big conflict of interest, IMO. Or, I'm guessing there is a dearth of good criminal lawyers who will take up wretched cases.

 

[Juballee]

Wait a minute!! MS was never charged with sending letters to MM- please supply a link for this!! Secondly, in the Crowns Opening Statements they say that DM was sending letters to CN, letters that had requested her to get someone to change their statement. That is a fact. MS was charged with breaching his "no contact list" which MM was on. We have not heard exactly how he did this but once again, if you do know, please supply a link!! MOO

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5262706-co-accused-in-bosma-murder-case-faces-new-charge/



A new charge has been laid against one of Tim Bosma's accused killers for allegedly breaching a court order not to have contact with his girlfriend.
Mark Smich was charged Monday by Det. Mark Carbone of the Toronto police homicide unit. Documents filed with the courthouse in Etobicoke say the alleged breach of recognizance happened between April 10 and July 31 of last year while Smich was in custody at the Toronto West Detention Centre.


Sorry, you are correct, it doesn't specifically say that it was letters he was using to communicate with his girlfriend, just that MS was charged for breaching the order not to communicate with MM. It could have been another girlfriend. Or it could have been over the phone, although calls are monitored and recorded by guards in real time, I believe.

Even though the crown thought it relevant enough to mention in his opening address, they never charged DM with breaching like they did MS. I still personally find it odd that they never added those same charges to DM when they apparently have the proof.

My opinion only

 

[flipflop]

Just wanted to point out that, in this type of scenario, a "test pilot" is someone who has no intention of buying the car and only wants to drive it for the sheer fun of it. The seller wants serious offers only and are basically saying "don't waste my time". No sinister secret message here.

Yes, I am aware of the terminology used, just thought it was waaaaaay too ironic to be written and used by someone so VERY close to this case. His boss (who is a pilot and who also test drove a truck) is sitting in jail awaiting a murder conviction ! ! !

 

[billandrew]

It's probably the reason Paradkar was sacked by DM. It's a big conflict of interest, IMO. Or, I'm guessing there is a dearth of good criminal lawyers who will take up wretched cases.

Interesting thought, thank you. MWJ is charged with weapon trafficking related to Wayne Millard's death, so I can see how it could be a conflict for DP to represent both MWJ and DM.

As a side note, it seems Paradkar has been doing a good job for Matthew Ward-Jackson. A court document on CanLII shows MWJ was found not guilty on some drug charges in 2014. And ABro reported on her website that MWJ had a whole list of other charges against him dropped in 2015.

 

[jash]

<snipped for space>
Even though the crown thought it relevant enough to mention in his opening address, they never charged DM with breaching like they did MS. I still personally find it odd that they never added those same charges to DM when they apparently have the proof.

My opinion only

I'm just throwing out a possibility but MM may have gone to police herself to report the communication. The communication from MS was a year after his arrest (between April and July 2014). We're not allowed to sleuth her but it's entirely possible she had moved on with her life by that point and did not want MS contacting her (the no-contact order aside). Maybe she felt threatened? All my own speculation.

I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say on the stand.

 

[ABro]

Are the trial transcript not being made available to reporters? I is that because of things that are said when jury is out of the room?

Written transcripts are not made available to reporters in this or any other case. The press has to pay for them just like everyone else -- and it's not cheap.

If you want, you can go buy one. It includes everything said in court although certain sections (when the jury is out) are subject to the publication ban -- until it is lifted.

 

[Juballee]

Oh, I'd say her memory was pretty fresh when she gave the statement to LE on May 14th, 2013. But the strangest thing happened. Court was adjourned for the afternoon and by the next morning when LW took the stand again her memory wasn't quite as fresh as it was the day before. How she could remember all that talk about the Baja race and then capitulate to DM's D's suggestion that it was actually $1800 is anyones guess. Must have been the long drive back to Woodbridge. MOO

"On May 3, 2013 — just three days before Tim vanished — Williams went to a meeting at Millardair, she says."

She also said Millard and Schlatman were discussing "going back to do another race" in Mexico. Millard enjoyed his previous race experience so much he had the words: "Desert Baja Racing" tattooed on his arm, something the jury has seen in his arrest photos.

Racing in the Baja is not cheap. Williams told the court the entry fee alone is about $18,000, plus the cost of towing a Jeep down, gas, hotel, food ..

"In her statement to police back on May 14, 2013 (four days after Millard's arrest), she told police that money at the company was "very tight."

http://m.thespec.com/news-story/634...a-trial-hears-about-accused-killer-s-finances
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6...ardair-bookkeeper-says-money-was-very-tight-/

Personally, I also imagine that her memory was pretty fresh when she gave her statement to police, but in my opinion, she made an error in her original statement. She said that the entry fee was $18,000 when in reality it was $1,800, so that was wrong. It doesn't mean she lied, it means she was incorrect and was then given the right amount, and then she admitted that she was wrong.

Some sleuthers here questioned her accuracy after her testimony the first day, and looked up the true fee. If she had continued to maintain that it would have been an $18,000 fee after being corrected, then I would have seriously doubted her testimony. I wonder if anyone has looked into the rest of the costs like gas and food and lodging to see how far off her estimate of that was yet? My question is when did the crown know that her estimates were so far off? It almost seems like they only found out after we discussed it here.

No one called other witnesses a liar when their mistakes were pointed out. I don't remember anyone calling Igor a liar when his description of the tattoo was wrong in a noticeable way, nor did anyone suggest that it discredited his testimony. He also didn't want his picture taken, but that wasn't met with suspicion like when LW didn't want her picture taken. She isn't ex military, so perhaps she can be forgiven for not being as combative on the stand as Igor was and for capitulating without as much of a fight. To me it just feels like some sort of double standard is being applied.

All my opinion only

 

[Juballee]

I'm just throwing out a possibility but MM may have gone to police herself to report the communication. The communication from MS was a year after his arrest (between April and July 2014). We're not allowed to sleuth her but it's entirely possible she had moved on with her life by that point and did not want MS contacting her (the no-contact order aside). Maybe she felt threatened? All my own speculation.

I am looking forward to hearing what she has to say on the stand.

Good point! I kind of hope for her sake that she had moved on by then. Although the communications happened for about 4 months in the spring and summer of 2014, and he wasn't charged until January of the next year.