Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[JPC]

People in that position don't do cocaine, they settle for cheap alternatives, namely meth or crack. If she had a habit, she would also have had a source in the city. Dellen Millard would not be her best option for acquiring crack. LBs problem was more a place to stay. I believe that there was some kind of agreement that in exchange for a living arrangement and drugs, sexual favours may have been exchanged.

She was advertising for sex online <modsnip> She had mental health issues. I believe that DM seemed like a good option for a place to stay and for drugs and it sounds like she even considered him to be a "boyfriend". There has never been any allusions to her being on crack. Not sure about meth?

 

[Gumshew]

That is not a doodle it is preprinted on the paper like a shadow and I believe is part of Spinners Cycle iconography. He has a stack of these paper pads and a grand opening flyer. Thanks to my fellow sleuthers for helping me decipher the name of the cycle shop.

Yeah, reread my post, I wrote that it's a logo and the skull is "printed on" the note pad. You are right, not a doodle.

 

[Abitcountry]

I'm not sure why so many people are so keen to blame drugs here. There is no sign that these guys were on any kind of drug beyond smoking the odd blunt. Anybody high enough on coke, meth or bath salts is going to be very very obvious, to the point where you are not going to let them drive your car. Obvious symptoms include profuse sweating, talking a mile a minute, not being able to stand still, and persistent sniffing. Someone high on drugs like that are unmistakeable, and TBs wife and neighbour indicated nothing to that effect, nor did Igor.

I think there are just a lot of people that don't feel comfortable believing that people could be that evil without some kind of drug to make them that way. But face it people, these people are evil, and the scary thing is that evil Dellen could so easily convince Smich, their girlfriend, employees, etc. to not only keep quite about the crime, but to assist with the cleanup. By my count there are six people that knew about this and not one called police.

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

 

[Gumshew]

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

Great post.

 

[JuneBug67]

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

I'm not personally convinced the crime was planned to be as dark as it became. For me things are still consistent with a slickly charming and entitled sociopath planning a truck theft with his thu-ggy sidekick, and then things getting more violent and deadly than planned. Cue up handy rolling crematorium. The cumulatively vile nature of this crime was born almost accidentally of necessity I think. I don't yet credit these two with anything more bizarre than grotesque greed, entitlement and callousness.

 

[SnooperDuper]

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

I think you are giving drugs too much power, almost magical power...

It is perfectly possible to be high on drugs and get a bank loan, withdraw cash from a teller or complete other (even large) financial transactions.

It's not like you do a line of coke and say, "I was going to get a bank loan but now I think I'll kill instead."

People on drugs are themselves, on drugs.

 

[swedie]

If anyone has ever noticed, the majority of DM's photos show him with a closed mouth smile, where he's not showing his teeth, more so in his his late teen to early 20s. I posted a couple photos the other day of DM in his younger years of him smiling, showing his teeth. It's very obvious DM had bad teeth...why? Meth and heroine come to mind? Of course there could be hereditary issues or poor dental hygiene, but I suspect drug use. Another trait that could be a tell tale sign of drug use for DM is weight loss. He went from a chunky young teen to a slim, older teen around the age many young people start experimenting with illegal drugs. It's not uncommon to see this metamorphosis as young people go through puberty, but if one was refer back to DM's photos at age 14, he appears to already have taken on a huge growth spurt in height. It's apparent at some point in his later years, DM had major dental work done as more recent photos show better looking teeth. Perhaps he has dentures? :dunno: All just my perception and opinion of course.

We heard from at least one source how DM would have parties fuelled by illegal drugs. Then there is the fact DM admitted to SL, LB had contacted DM looking for drugs. Why would she contact DM if he wasn't a drug source? There is no doubt in my mind, both MS and DM were drug users. As to how serious they were into drugs is anyone's guess. MOO.

Added: I see this was asked and suggested in previous posts about the parties and LB contacting DM for drugs and a place to stay. I wonder if LB had for a time lived at DM's Maple Gate house and the furniture (desk and mattress) found in the trailer were hers? Perhaps the backpack was LB's also. Childlike documents...she did at one time work at a toy store... MOO.

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

&#8220;First, he denies all the calls: &#8216;Maybe we spoke once or twice, but definitely not eight times.&#8217; Flat-out denies it,&#8221; Mr. Lerner recalled. &#8220;Then I showed him the phone bill and his tone totally changed: &#8216;Okay, yeah, we spoke. She was looking for drugs and for a place to stay,&#8217; and he denied her on both of those requests. And then he just had to go. He was in a rush &#8211; had to go.&#8221;

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

 

[Typhoo1961]

ETA - btw, I would love to see him take the stand too, in case you're wondering

DM would probably lie on the stand.

 

[Gumshew]

I think you are giving drugs too much power, almost magical power...

It is perfectly possible to be high on drugs and get a bank loan, withdraw cash from a teller or complete other (even large) financial transactions.

It's not like you do a line of coke and say, "I was going to get a bank loan but now I think I'll kill instead."

People on drugs are themselves, on drugs.

Exactly. Especially true for coke. Richard Ramirez was coke fuelled a lot of times but his need for the thrill of murder is what motivated him.

I don't think Abitcountry is giving the impression that he/she thinks drugs are all powerful or magical, just that it is not such a huge stretch to imagine drugs were involved, in whatever which way.

 

[Abitcountry]

I think you are giving drugs too much power, almost magical power...

It is perfectly possible to be high on drugs and get a bank loan, withdraw cash from a teller or complete other (even large) financial transactions.

It's not like you do a line of coke and say, "I was going to get a bank loan but now I think I'll kill instead."

People on drugs are themselves, on drugs.

I did not suggest that the drugs made them do anything !!!!!!
I think that evil did walk up the Bosma driveway that evening.....I think evil brought a gun or guns as 'friendly persuaders' and probably never really thought they would have to use the gun/guns.
If these two clowns were drinkers they may have fortified their intended thieving escapade with a drink.....if they needed a little fortification and chose instead a joint or a line of something, so be it. And just like you said they were perfectly capable of being high and getting a bank loan...... or stealing a truck ...and who would notice their altered mental state.

I am more aligned with JuneBug's post #85.....our two clowns may not have set out to commit a murder...but they did set out to steal a truck.....and beyond a shadow of a doubt there was at least one loaded gun.
And what if TB did something they had not counted on....and what if they responded in a way they had not intended....their perceptions possibly having been altered.... All in my humble opinion.

 

[swedie]

DM would probably lie on the stand.

No doubt in my mind. He pled not guilty, so what does that tell us? DM's life seemed to consist of failures, unfinished plans, lack of ambition, theft, lies, greed, drugs, guns... a whole host of nothings but negativity. MOO.

 

[amis_]

If anyone has ever noticed, the majority of DM's photos show him with a closed mouth smile, where he's not showing his teeth, more so in his his late teen to early 20s. I posted a couple photos the other day of DM in his younger years of him smiling, showing his teeth. It's very obvious DM had bad teeth...why? Meth and heroine come to mind? Of course there could be hereditary issues or poor dental hygiene, but I suspect drug use. Another trait that could be a tell tale sign of drug use for DM is weight loss. He went from a chunky young teen to a slim, older teen around the age many young people start experimenting with illegal drugs. It's not uncommon to see this metamorphosis as young people go through puberty, but if one was refer back to DM's photos at age 14, he appears to already have taken on a huge growth spurt in height. It's apparent at some point in his later years, DM had major dental work done as more recent photos show better looking teeth. Perhaps he has dentures? :dunno: All just my perception and opinion of course.

We heard from at least one source how DM would have parties fuelled by illegal drugs. Then there is the fact DM admitted to SL, LB had contacted DM looking for drugs. Why would she contact DM if he wasn't a drug source? There is no doubt in my mind, both MS and DM were drug users. As to how serious they were into drugs is anyone's guess. MOO.

Added: I see this was asked and suggested in previous posts about the parties and LB contacting DM for drugs and a place to stay. I wonder if LB had for a time lived at DM's Maple Gate house and the furniture (desk and mattress) found in the trailer were hers? Perhaps the backpack was LB's also. Childlike documents...she did at one time work at a toy store... MOO.

A former acquaintance of Millard's, who says she had attended almost two dozen parties at his home in the Toronto suburb of Etobicoke, told CBC News that Millard and Noudga were dating.

"But [Millard] and Laura [Babcock] were just fooling around," she said. "He kept Laura around and gave her drugs."

The source asked CBC not to use her name because she said she was "terrified" of Millard. She described many of his parties as fuelled by cocaine and the drug MDMA and recalled several times when large brawls broke out.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...a-death-faces-2-more-murder-charges-1.2605741

“First, he denies all the calls: ‘Maybe we spoke once or twice, but definitely not eight times.’ Flat-out denies it,” Mr. Lerner recalled. “Then I showed him the phone bill and his tone totally changed: ‘Okay, yeah, we spoke. She was looking for drugs and for a place to stay,’ and he denied her on both of those requests. And then he just had to go. He was in a rush – had to go.”

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/what-if-game-haunts-babcock-friend/article18832997/

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In pictures that I saw of DM, AM and SS going to the Baja race you can clearly see a mattress in the trailer with the Jeep. IMO they had it (and maybe more then one) so they didn't have to stay in hotels every night (I say every night because there is also photos of them in a hotel in the same album) I believe the mattress was just left in the trailer since then. MOO

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[ArianeEmory]

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

Yes, there were drugs around.

No, I don't particularly think DM was/is an addict.

More importantly, even if they were both fully coked up, it doesn't excuse anything. Millions of people do cocaine without committing murder.

And no one on MDMA does much of anything but dance, or roll around on a sofa acting like a fool. It is 100% a happy/huggy drug, due to its mechanism of action.

 

[swedie]

In pictures that I saw of DM, AM and SS going to the Baja race you can clearly see a mattress in the trailer with the Jeep. IMO they had it (and maybe more then one) so they didn't have to stay in hotels every night (I say every night because there is also photos of them in a hotel in the same album) I believe the mattress was just left in the trailer since then. MOO

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

So perhaps they needed the computer desk also while at the Baja races? Maybe they also took along kitchen chairs and sat around the computer desk to eat lunches at. Or perhaps just the "Boss" got to sit at the computer desk, at the races and hand out orders to his crew? MOO.

 

[SnooperDuper]

So perhaps they needed the computer desk also while at the Baja races? Maybe they also took along kitchen chairs and sat around the computer desk to eat lunches at. Or perhaps just the "Boss" got to sit at the computer desk, at the races and hand out orders to his crew? MOO.

Maybe they were just getting a few things out of the house while they were painting. There was a couch in the trailer too, if I remember correctly.

 

[matou]

At the moment, he's onto an idea about which he's gained some valuable real-life experience in jail: living in small quarters.


"I've been thinking about a project on submarine living spaces. I spend my time thinking, reading, doing things that are useful."


At his bedside at the moment is the 19th-century book On War by Carl von Clausewitz.


His life, and that of his family, is in suspension, he says.

Interesting read. I wonder what else he's requested as reading material?

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

 

[Gumshew]

Yes, there were drugs around.

No, I don't particularly think DM was/is an addict.

More importantly, even if they were both fully coked up, it doesn't excuse anything. Millions of people do cocaine without committing murder.

And no one on MDMA does much of anything but dance, or roll around on a sofa acting like a fool. It is 100% a happy/huggy drug, due to its mechanism of action.

I haven't read a post where anyone suggests them possibly being coked up would excuse anything. What was done is inexcusable. I don't think anyone who writes that coke was involved believes it was used for anything except literal fuel, either during or after the murder (or maybe not at all). The perpetrators had a motive; theft and what LE says is probably a thrill kill-- which eclipses any use of coke.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Interesting read. I wonder what else he's requested as reading material?

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4...dellen-millard-says-he-didn-t-kill-tim-bosma/

Wow, that name "Carl" keeps resurfacing all the time...

-Grandfather's name, Carl Millard
-Book he's reading in jail interview, by Carl von Clausewitz
-Name on gun in the photo found on his computer, Carl Walther.

It's like his grandfather is haunting him with that name.

 

[janelcd]

Perhaps I've missed this over the last couple of years - has there been any mention of WM's Estate. I doubt DM would been the Executor and that the Estate was even settled at the time of Tim's murder.

 

[matou]

There is also a huge painting/portrait of Carl at the MapleGate house. Up against the wall, not hung up.