Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[swedie]

Maybe they were just getting a few things out of the house while they were painting. There was a couch in the trailer too, if I remember correctly.

From AJ's testimony re: garbage at and around the hangar. “Good question. I can’t remember. I know there was a lot of garbage piled up in the parking area — furniture.”

Was it DM's intent to incinerate some of this furniture while he had the incinerator at the hangar the night TB was murdered, but perhaps he ran out of fuel? What's up with furniture piled up in the hangar parking lot? Just another sign of DM's slobbishness or getting rid of evidence or ruined furniture from WM's alleged suicide in the house...weird. JMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I might be more inclined to believe Tim's murder was a truck theft gone wrong, IF the cases of Laura and DM's dad didn't exist. But, they do.

As for the drugs? That's anyone's guess, really, but I don't see any reason to believe either of them were "addicts". Casual users? Most definitely, but I think that's the extent of it.

moo.

 

[Stratocaster]

Going back to the forensic anthropology doctors testimony, her name escapes me, when she suited up and climbed inside the incinerator she made a comment on the stand something to the effect of 'there was not complete remains of a human body' Did anymore evidence on this subject of where the rest of TB's remains get discussed? I may have missed that part. TIA

 

[billandrew]

Going back to the forensic anthropology doctors testimony, her name escapes me, when she suited up and climbed inside the incinerator she made a comment on the stand something to the effect of 'there was not complete remains of a human body' Did anymore evidence on this subject of where the rest of TB's remains get discussed? I may have missed that part. TIA

She stated that most of the remains had been cleaned out. The police searched for several days at the farm but came up empty handed.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Ok I'm now seeing "Stunners Cycles Inc. Grand Opening" on a flyer on MS's end table, with a whole bunch of blank note pads for Stunners Cycles. He must have known someone involved with that place, or was involved himself. I also checked out another Oakville motorcycle place, Motorcycle Enhancements, and browsed some their Facebook photos. There were some photos of girls posing with bikes, and I noted that at least one of those girls is friends with some of Smich's friends, notably a girl we know by initials CD. Small world, I guess.

View attachment 90160

I'm far, far behind, but thought I'd throw this out there. I wonder if Motorcycle Enhancements is the same company (or owner) as Stunners Cycles Inc., but has been renamed (or bought). The motorcycle symbols in their logos are very much the same.

As for the skull, I think it is a crown on top. It looks like this one.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/165628524-skull-and-crossbone-crown-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=T92iIKFGA8%2FMcqqOa0PVIMJ6BXwwut7Wo%2FetqWxyKOApwj1mQExUEqQZZ%2FVClgUe

 

[JuneBug67]

I might be more inclined to believe Tim's murder was a truck theft gone wrong, IF the cases of Laura and DM's dad didn't exist. But, they do.

As for the drugs? That's anyone's guess, really, but I don't see any reason to believe either of them were "addicts". Casual users? Most definitely, but I think that's the extent of it.

moo.

My rationale for that line of thought is that there was adequate planning to get away with theft, but wildly inadequate planning to get away with murder in these circumstances. Millard would have to have deeply stupid or wildly insane to take the risks he did. To me, Occam's Razor suggests they were just unprepared to effectively cover up a crime of the eventual magnitude and, fortunately, a little bit unlucky.

And editing to add that the fact that evidence suggests that Tim was shot in the truck may support the idea of an unplanned act. It resulted after all in a broken window and a gutted interior, along with the need to deal with incriminating evidence as big and unwieldy as truck seats. This is surely something they could have avoided with a true plan.

 

[aawaterloo]

Going back to the forensic anthropology doctors testimony, her name escapes me, when she suited up and climbed inside the incinerator she made a comment on the stand something to the effect of 'there was not complete remains of a human body' Did anymore evidence on this subject of where the rest of TB's remains get discussed? I may have missed that part. TIA

To my knowledge, LE hasn't discussed yet if they found the remaining cremains or any part of them. LE did search the farm extensively in the aftermath of finding the incinerator. May be it is to come in the future.

 

[Tealgrove]

I might be more inclined to believe Tim's murder was a truck theft gone wrong, IF the cases of Laura and DM's dad didn't exist. But, they do.

As for the drugs? That's anyone's guess, really, but I don't see any reason to believe either of them were "addicts". Casual users? Most definitely, but I think that's the extent of it.

moo.

BBM

To be honest, I originally thought the same thing - a robbery gone bad, but the more I hear and the more I think about it, I've changed my mind on it.

If ALL they really wanted to do was steal a truck, they could have trawled Auto Trader, Kijiji, Craigslist or whatever until they found some trucks that suited them. They could have just gone and stole it. They didn't need to kill anyone.

The fact that they hid the Yukon, walked up to Tim's house, and then killed him so quickly, tells me that murder was always part of the plan.

The further fact that they really were so full of themselves and thought they could get away with it blows my mind. I mean, seriously....you walk up to someone's house; meet the guy you are going to kill and then steal his truck. See his wife - his wife sees you. Another person is there and sees you. You are seen driving away with the man you are going to kill and you think nothing of it. You have to know that it won't be long before the wife calls the police and tells them all about it and that her husband is missing.

Honest to God, what did they think was going to happen? How could they possibly think that they were going to get away with it?

I would laugh myself silly, if this wasn't so incredibly evil and tragic.

MOO - MURDER WAS ALWAYS IN THE PICTURE. DM didn't buy the Eliminator to dispose of furniture. He had a plan.

 

[ArianeEmory]

Good post, Tealgrove. I've considered the possibility that the killing happening *inside the truck* was a mistake, but they took a loaded, concealed weapon on a test drive, one where they outnumbered their victim two to one.

You don't do that unless you've already decided murder is an option.

 

[aawaterloo]

BBM

To be honest, I originally thought the same thing - a robbery gone bad, but the more I hear and the more I think about it, I've changed my mind on it.

If ALL they really wanted to do was steal a truck, they could have trawled Auto Trader, Kijiji, Craigslist or whatever until they found some trucks that suited them. They could have just gone and stole it. They didn't need to kill anyone.

The fact that they hid the Yukon, walked up to Tim's house, and then killed him so quickly, tells me that murder was always part of the plan.

The further fact that they really were so full of themselves and thought they could get away with it blows my mind. I mean, seriously....you walk up to someone's house; meet the guy you are going to kill and then steal his truck. See his wife - his wife sees you. Another person is there and sees you. You are seen driving away with the man you are going to kill and you think nothing of it. You have to know that it won't be long before the wife calls the police and tells them all about it and that her husband is missing.

Honest to God, what did they think was going to happen? How could they possibly think that they were going to get away with it?

I would laugh myself silly, if this wasn't so incredibly evil and tragic.

MOO - MURDER WAS ALWAYS IN THE PICTURE. DM didn't buy the Eliminator to dispose of furniture. He had a plan.

And who goes to test drive a car with a gun on them (in Ontario, Canada).

 

[JuneBug67]

Good post, Tealgrove. I've considered the possibility that the killing happening *inside the truck* was a mistake, but they took a loaded, concealed weapon on a test drive, one where they outnumbered their victim two to one.

You don't do that unless you've already decided murder is an option.

I do think it's possible that murder became the decision at some point, even if just chosen in a moment. But the totality of the evidence doesn't convince me so far that it was the plan. Seriously, they'd have to be utterly oblivious or risk takers of a nearly insane magnitude. It's tough for me to believe they were that.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I do think it's possible that murder became the decision at some point, even if just chosen in a moment. But the totality of the evidence doesn't convince me so far that it was the plan. Seriously, they'd have to be utterly oblivious or risk takers of a nearly insane magnitude. It's tough for me to believe they were that.

And when I think through the risk element, I'm reminded that DM likely figured he'd already gotten away with two murders.

MS had the sense to be nervous. DM seems to have some faulty internal wiring (to say the least), and I don't think he processes risk like a normal person.

 

[Ironworker736]

People in that position don't do cocaine, they settle for cheap alternatives, namely meth or crack. If she had a habit, she would also have had a source in the city. Dellen Millard would not be her best option for acquiring crack. LBs problem was more a place to stay. I believe that there was some kind of agreement that in exchange for a living arrangement and drugs, sexual favours may have been exchanged.

<BBM>

Crack is cocaine in smokable form...not JMO...fact

And it's not markedly cheaper, especially since the user has a tendency to do more...and more...and more...etc

 

[Gumshew]

I'm far, far behind, but thought I'd throw this out there. I wonder if Motorcycle Enhancements is the same company (or owner) as Stunners Cycles Inc., but has been renamed (or bought). The motorcycle symbols in their logos are very much the same.

As for the skull, I think it is a crown on top. It looks like this one.

http://cache2.asset-cache.net/gc/16...VIMJ6BXwwut7Wo/etqWxyKOApwj1mQExUEqQZZ/VClgUe

I don't think it's the same skull logo. The Stunners one has 3 pistons on each side of the skull-- no crown, no bones. Pistons like the "Outlaw" biker gang has on the side of their skull logo( they have 2). Pistons just mean "motor bikes", so I'm not saying it is exclusively gang related.

 

[Gumshew]

My rationale for that line of thought is that there was adequate planning to get away with theft, but wildly inadequate planning to get away with murder in these circumstances. Millard would have to have deeply stupid or wildly insane to take the risks he did. To me, Occam's Razor suggests they were just unprepared to effectively cover up a crime of the eventual magnitude and, fortunately, a little bit unlucky.

And editing to add that the fact that evidence suggests that Tim was shot in the truck may support the idea of an unplanned act. It resulted after all in a broken window and a gutted interior, along with the need to deal with incriminating evidence as big and unwieldy as truck seats. This is surely something they could have avoided with a true plan.

I like using Occam's Razor too because it is almost always right. "wildly inadequate planning to get away with murder in these circumstances" Of his deep stupidity, there is little doubt of it in my mind.

 

[Abitcountry]

Good post, Tealgrove. I've considered the possibility that the killing happening *inside the truck* was a mistake, but they took a loaded, concealed weapon on a test drive, one where they outnumbered their victim two to one.

You don't do that unless you've already decided murder is an option.

IMHO
I think that they were indeed very very anxious to secure this truck for themselves.
I also think that they brought the gun along thinking that the mere sight of it might be enough to deal with any resistance they would encounter.
But the reality is...the gun was loaded and exactly as you have just said, "You don't do that unless you've already decided murder is an option".

My father in his old man's wisdom kind of way said something similar about guns.....Nobody buys a gun if he isn't going to use it.

 

[Gumshew]

I do think it's possible that murder became the decision at some point, even if just chosen in a moment. But the totality of the evidence doesn't convince me so far that it was the plan. Seriously, they'd have to be utterly oblivious or risk takers of a nearly insane magnitude. It's tough for me to believe they were that.

Tough for me to believe that too. One would think nobody could be that hare-brained. More evidence needs to be shown. Did LE find any written or spoken communications between them all? I need to know that the evidence and timeline match up. Need to hear what the witnesses have to say.

 

[ADAWG]

One reason the clean up was so rushed they probably assumed the police wouldn't get involved until at least 24 hrs later. I don't think they figure things would happen so quickly. In turn there was rushed and sloppy clean up. Panic set in and they just started moving things wherever. Also if the police didn't start right away, media reaction and how fast the community was notified there is a good chance that truck would've been painted. Instead I think all of Ontario was on the look out for a black ram.


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[Abitcountry]

One reason the clean up was so rushed they probably assumed the police wouldn't get involved until at least 24 hrs later. I don't think they figure things would happen so quickly. In turn there was rushed and sloppy clean up. Panic set in and they just started moving things wherever. Also if the police didn't start right away, media reaction and how fast the community was notified there is a good chance that truck would've been painted. Instead I think all of Ontario was on the look out for a black ram.


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Is it not uncanny to you how fast things began to happen when TB did not come home...SB was right on it...friends etc were right on it....police were right on it....Kijiji ad...ambition tatoo...cell phone found on the grass and not run over !!!...the dairy farmer sees smoke...dirt bike guide tours police around...even DM was carded <modsnip>...and on and on and on.

Do you remember the children's story of Hanzel and Gretel....and the trail of breadcrumbs to lead them through the woods and safely home ? Honestly it comes to mind so often...One clue after another....I would stop that silly grinning and carrying on in the courtroom if I were DM.

 

[aawaterloo]

I do think it's possible that murder became the decision at some point, even if just chosen in a moment. But the totality of the evidence doesn't convince me so far that it was the plan. Seriously, they'd have to be utterly oblivious or risk takers of a nearly insane magnitude. It's tough for me to believe they were that.

I believe the argument of good planning vs poor planning is subjective and also pointless. There is enough evidence to suggest that they had considered killing as an option prior to the test drive proving premeditation. Consequently, first degree murder charges would be correct. MOO