Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #6

[Claroon]

Maybe no 3rd party because they incinerated him too because he knew too much. Just speculating. But why would they even need him except to return Yukon. But why follow?

I suspected Smich hadn't been driving. Why wouldn't he pick up his girlfriend himself if he did. This article makes me wonder if he had his license suspended:

"Smich, who has five previous convictions including drug possession and impaired driving, appeared in court Thursday to face a first-degree murder charge." http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/tim-bosma-case-what-we-know-about-accused-mark-smich

 

[SnooperDuper]

Maybe no 3rd party because they incinerated him too because he knew too much. Just speculating. But why would they even need him except to return Yukon. But why follow?

I suspected Smich didn't drive. Why wouldn't he pick up his girlfriend himself if he did. This article makes me wonder if he had his license suspended:

"Smich, who has five previous convictions including drug possession and impaired driving, appeared in court Thursday to face a first-degree murder charge." http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/23/tim-bosma-case-what-we-know-about-accused-mark-smich

MS's only problem seems to be that he didn't have a vehicle. I don't think there was anything else keeping him from driving. If he's willing to participate in a murder, I doubt that he'd care that his licence was (still) suspended, if that were the (unlikely) case.

 

[Gumshew]

I could be wrong but I don't think the police return weapons used in crime or death.

The important word in my original post is "another". LOL, returning illegal weapons used in crime or death? Jeez, I hope not. You've probably mixed my post up with someone else's.

 

[Satchie]

It's very common for LE to come down hard on an accomplice in order to try to force a confession of the real facts. If the less guilty person stays silent, they risk facing the penalty for a crime they didn't commit, but that's their decision and the price they pay for protecting someone else.

 

[ABro]

And that doesn't dismiss the fact that MS magically left no fingerprints behind, on either TB's or DM's mirrors. If he was the one who came prepared with gloves, and a disguise for his face, is it such a leap to think that he is also the one who came prepared with a gun?

The blood spatter expert said the truck appeared to have been cleaned. Presumably that's why there were so fingerprints to be found. Nothing magical about it.

 

[Prairie_dawg]

...I suspected Smich hadn't been driving. Why wouldn't he pick up his girlfriend himself if he did. This article makes me wonder if he had his license suspended:...

<rsbm>
Given the crimes involved I don't think MS gave a crap about getting busted for a suspended license. I also do not think for a second that DM (leader) would allow MS to drive the prize and would not allow MS to lead the parade back to the farm, and definitely NOT tow the incinerator.

 

[Typhoo1961]

As someone else said, they got to work on the truck while there. Probably realized they needed 4 hours for the burn. Who wants to hang out in the dark that long? Maybe they have showers up there? They'd want to clean up I'd think.

The hangar has a shower.

 

[andreww]

I have heard it expressed many times here that it is possible that DM did it all alone while MS was in another vehicle, so I am curious why is it so bothersome to some that the opposite is also possible?

I think that there is a reason why the judge advised the jury that different verdicts were possible and for different defendants.

Valid point, but it is Millard's print on the rear view mirror. It is Millard that trolled auto trader for months. It was Millard that took the helm in Igor's truck. It was Millard that carried the satchel that would easily have hidden the gun. I don't see any evidence thus far that points to Smich pulling the trigger.

 

[andreww]

It's very common for LE to come down hard on an accomplice in order to try to force a confession of the real facts. If the less guilty person stays silent, they risk facing the penalty for a crime they didn't commit, but that's their decision and the price they pay for protecting someone else.

Police cannot "come down hard" on anybody without having evidence. They also don't have the option of coming down hard, they either lay the charge or don't lay the charge. What they can do is threaten a witness to come down hard in order to get information. LE is allowed to lie and exaggerate in order to put stress on a witness and get them to spill.

 

[Typhoo1961]

but I'd think TB would think it was weird to find out so early there was no friend at Tim Hortons and that their car was in the field.

Assuming TB was still alive by this point.

 

[andreww]

<rsbm>
Given the crimes involved I don't think MS gave a crap about getting busted for a suspended license. I also do not think for a second that DM (leader) would allow MS to drive the prize and would not allow MS to lead the parade back to the farm, and definitely NOT tow the incinerator.

If TBs body was in fact in the bed of his truck at some point, the Yukon was likely used to keep other vehicles from getting a good look from behind. Also keeps nosey eyes off the licence plate.

 

[andreww]

Assuming TB was still alive by this point.

Its been debated as to whether TB was killed in that field, but alive or dead, he would have been aware that something was dreadfully wrong by that point.

 

[andreww]

The blood spatter expert said the truck appeared to have been cleaned. Presumably that's why there were so fingerprints to be found. Nothing magical about it.

Exactly. There was only a single print from Millard, and I didn't see any indication that TBs prints were found anywhere obvious, so its pretty obvious that the truck was wiped down.

 

[Juballee]

Exactly. There was only a single print from Millard, and I didn't see any indication that TBs prints were found anywhere obvious, so its pretty obvious that the truck was wiped down.

Perhaps MS was the one who cleaned it off, since he seemed to get all his prints but forgot to clean obvious spots like the mirror and the driver's side door. But personally I still think that he was hiding his hands from SB for a reason, there was lots of room in the hoodie pocket for a firearm.

 

[Juballee]

It's just that the evidence doesn't support MS acting alone. The evidence is in, 3/4 of the Crown's case has been presented...there just isn't more physical evidence to be had, and we've had a lot of it.

In the end DM held onto the truck and its keys like a prize - It's impossible for me to believe that he was disinterested in this crime.

Perhaps he had the truck as a prize or perhaps he was tasked with cleaning up after his friend. We don't actually know yet.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Exactly. There was only a single print from Millard, and I didn't see any indication that TBs prints were found anywhere obvious, so its pretty obvious that the truck was wiped down.

I think the fingerprint aspect of this case is rather fascinating. Think about all the things you touch when you get into your vehicle on the driver's side.

Outside door handle, door frame just above the handle (many people will hold the door open this way as they get in), steering wheel, seat belt buckle, rear-view mirror (if it needs adjusting), gear shift handle, and for most people the heater/A/C knobs and/or stereo knobs as well as the air register controls. Yet how many of DM's prints were on any of those things?

It's pretty obvious the truck was at least partially wiped down, so it's no stretch (for me anyway) that MS's prints weren't found. Especially if he was the one who wiped it down and/or was wearing gloves the whole time.

moo.

 

[Satchie]

Police cannot "come down hard" on anybody without having evidence. They also don't have the option of coming down hard, they either lay the charge or don't lay the charge. What they can do is threaten a witness to come down hard in order to get information. LE is allowed to lie and exaggerate in order to put stress on a witness and get them to spill.

I'm thinking of the example of the Mayerthorpe accomplices, they were charged with 1st degree murder but confessed in exchange for manslaughter convictions.

Also, following the Sievers case in Florida, it was a deliberate strategy in order to get the evidence to charge the husband.

 

[andreww]

I'm thinking of the example of the Mayerthorpe accomplices, they were charged with 1st degree murder but confessed in exchange for manslaughter convictions.

Also, following the Sievers case in Florida, it was a deliberate strategy in order to get the evidence to charge the husband.

Bargains will sometimes be struck if a conviction is not a slam dunk. In some cases, it just saves the expense of a trial. All depends on the circumstances.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think the fingerprint aspect of this case is rather fascinating. Think about all the things you touch when you get into your vehicle on the driver's side.

Outside door handle, door frame just above the handle (many people will hold the door open this way as they get in), steering wheel, seat belt buckle, rear-view mirror (if it needs adjusting), gear shift handle, and for most people the heater/A/C knobs and/or stereo knobs as well as the air register controls. Yet how many of DM's prints were on any of those things?

It's pretty obvious the truck was at least partially wiped down, so it's no stretch (for me anyway) that MS's prints weren't found. Especially if he was the one who wiped it down and/or was wearing gloves the whole time.

moo.

Speaking of wearing gloves the whole time, DM and CN and TB's DNA were found on disposable nitrile gloves likely used for cleaning up the crime scene. MS's DNA was not found on any gloves. DM OTOH was arrested with the gloves in his pocket.

Seems like DM was the one who wiped it down and/or was wearing gloves the whole time.

There's no evidence to implicate MS.

 

[andreww]

Perhaps MS was the one who cleaned it off, since he seemed to get all his prints but forgot to clean obvious spots like the mirror and the driver's side door. But personally I still think that he was hiding his hands from SB for a reason, there was lots of room in the hoodie pocket for a firearm.

I can't deny that as a possibility. I'm still not convinced whether he was shot from the back seat by Smich at the field or by Millard as he turned in to the Bobcat dealership. As there has been no effort by the prosecution to fill in those details, something tells me that it really doesn't matter. The fact that both of them participated in the abduction tells me that they are both also guilty of 1st degree murder and that the prosecution really doesn't feel it really makes a difference who pulled the trigger.