Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #7

[mskrisc]

I think MM will testify that MS was led by DM. I don't think that she will testify against MS because they are still, the news reports, boyfriend and girlfriend. (I've never seen MM described as an ex.)

I don't believe they are still bf and gf. Before her name was mentioned in court, her FB profile was public . She has had several boyfriends since MS arrest and seems to have a steady one now. Her profile picture can still be seen with her new bf. I believe her new FB name is "Marley Ann"

 

[mskrisc]

Like a lot of the prosecutions case, it seems they are just putting it out there as another unexplainable coincidence. DM didn't have his power washer, a brand new hose is found left running for 10 hours with blood on it. I'm thinking the bought the hose to wash the blood out of the truck. You?

Ugh... How did I miss that there was blood found in the hose? Geez! Makes more sense then! I'd have to agree with you!

 

[Kamille]

Ugh... How did I miss that there was blood found in the hose? Geez! Makes more sense then! I'd have to agree with you!

There is a photo with 2 evidence markers on the hose but there is no confirmation that the markers indicate blood.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

Ugh... How did I miss that there was blood found in the hose? Geez! Makes more sense then! I'd have to agree with you!

IMO, we don't know enough about the clean up of the Yukon.
When was the carpet removed?
Did they clean the Yukon with the hose?
Should there not be security videos of them taking the vehicle to the home with the hose?

I know they were very bold, but I don't see them taking the truck out for a car wash. Unless the truck was washed before they took it to the hanger. When did they burn the carpet and seats? At that point the truck was almost impossible to drive.

Something is very nebulous with SS's testimony so far.

DM texted SS looking for the power washer at 5:20 am on the 8th. A few hours later SS went to work, and the truck was cleaned, stripped of seats and carpet, and sitting on a green tarp. Did DM text that before or after the Truck Clean up?

also

"Not long after the conversation with Jennings, his cell phone received the first of two messages from Millard – both seemingly related to Bosma’s disappearance, even though Schlatman said they had never discussed it to that point."

My info is based on this report.

http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/millard...authorities-to-bosma-s-truck-friend-1.2826452

 

[MsSherlock]

Should AS actually have had an appointment for someone to tour the facility, surely they would have given more than the day's notice that would have been required to move those toys.

That's an interesting angle. IMHO, WM was constructing an aircraft hangar- a state of the art MRO. DM's toys shouldn't have been there to begin with, so NO- the hangar should have been able to be toured anytime with minimal notice and IMHO, the guys running the show should have felt confident that anyone could pop in at anytime and find a pristine hangar getting ready for business- not DM's personal grease monkey SS working away on DM's cars, trucks and trailers.

LW testified that SS was the only one of the 14 employees that DM didn't let go. Out of the 13 let go, many would have been maintenance/management people trying to work around DM's mess and ego. Can't even imagine what they thought of this whole project being constantly sabotaged by the owners son. MOO

"she said there was no business income coming into Millardair and Millard had laid off all but one of the company’s 14 employees, Sachak asked her about business prior to Millard taking the helm."

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/c...uy-bosmas-pickup-with-125k-salary-trial-hears

 

[SnooperDuper]

Shout out to billandrew!

Ann Brocklehurst ‏@AnnB03 2h2 hours ago
Armchair sleuth's list of 77 witnesses who have testified at #TimBosma trial. A few inaccuracies but good reference https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GKX6iLGGXPpNx8BgncUWD9dH1qN5FBxGYQPZZQ6h8fE/pubhtml

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey folks ... discussing witness testimony is one thing, but don't be mocking them and linking to their personal business websites or social media accounts. They are witnesses ... not the accused.

:tyou:

 

[SnooperDuper]

I have read a few times now, people writing that DM can't be found guilty because they can't tell who the shooter is and therefore there's "reasonable doubt".

I thought there was a lot of evidence that both DM and MS worked in concert together to kill TB. One did it, one helped, and it was a joint venture.

How do people still see DM as innocent in face of all the evidence? Is there any legal argument for him?

 

[billandrew]

I have read a few times now, people writing that DM can't be found guilty because they can't tell who the shooter is and therefore there's "reasonable doubt".

I thought there was a lot of evidence that both DM and MS worked in concert together to kill TB. One did it, one helped, and it was a joint venture.

How do people still see DM as innocent in face of all the evidence? Is there any legal argument for him?

This is why premeditation is so important in this case. The cleanup effort and circumstantial evidence suggest that either DM or MS, or both of them together killed TB. However, IMO, there is not enough evidence to say beyond a reasonable doubt which of them should be found guilty, unless they can show that the murder or truck theft was premeditated.

DM knows this and it is why he wrote to CN "if only he [DM's roommate] knew how his words would give me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can."

JMO

 

[MsSherlock]

This is why premeditation is so important in this case. The cleanup effort and circumstantial evidence suggest that either DM or MS, or both of them together killed TB. However, IMO, there is not enough evidence to say beyond a reasonable doubt which of them should be found guilty, unless they can show that the murder or truck theft was premeditated.

DM knows this and it is why he wrote to CN "if only he [DM's roommate] knew how his words would give me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can."

JMO

IMO, the Crown has options, but personally, I think they're well on their way to prove it was planned and deliberate along with it being a murder while committing forcible confinement. MOO

First degree
was planned and deliberate
was contracted
was committed against an identified peace officer
while committing or attempting to commit the hijacking of an aircraft
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault with a weapon
while committing or attempting to commit aggravated sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping and forcible confinement
during a hostage taking
while committing criminal harassment
was committed during terrorist activity
while using explosives in association with a criminal organization
while committing intimidation.
Second degree- any murder which is not first degree murder

"For multiple murder offences committed after December 2, 2011, a court may, after considering any jury recommendation, impose consecutive periods of parole ineligibility for each murder. While the provision is not mandatory, this means, for example, that an individual convicted of three counts of first degree murder could face life with no parole for 75 years - or 25 years for each conviction."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_(Canadian_law)

Forcible confinement

(2) Every one who, without lawful authority, confines, imprisons or forcibly seizes another person is guilty of
(a) an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years; or
(b) an offence punishable on summary conviction and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding eighteen months.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-279.html

 

[SnooperDuper]

It ultimately doesn't matter though, does it, who pulled the trigger - because they acted together?

 

[billandrew]

Both of you guys are absolutely right, but the challenge for the Crown is to convince the jury that both DM and MS either planned the murder or planned the forcible confinement (say, via a truck theft) which led to the murder.

Each defense will have a story about how the other guy committed the murder/truck theft, and that their client wasn't present when the murder occurred. To counter this, the Crown will have to present evidence that they planned to commit the crime.

MOO

 

[LoyalSleuth]

If they can't determine who pulled the trigger, and i don't think they will, they need to prove the murder was planned and deliberate by BOTH DM and MS and /or that it was during a kidnapping.

I am not sure the evidence will or has shown that for MS.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[qdm]

what about the picture of the 380 in MS's hand, blood in the truck and a 380 casing lodged in a rear seat?

If either of the two accused were up there alone with the same amt of evidence being present I don't think there would be as much doubt when it comes to MS

Seeing as there are two, it comes down to forcible confinement which I hope becomes clear in the coming testimony. I suppose since TB didn't come home could be proof that he was forcibly confined? IDK,

 

[Just4TB]

Been lurking around the site since 2013.


Big admiration for many posting here... a critical mass of good people who wish to see Justice Served. Good to see the very few DM sympathizers here get challenged with facts.


A few thoughts to share...
All those charged deserve a vigorous defense, and actually Dungey is proving his mettle. But, from what I have seen, DM is in Dire Need of a better defense team, MOO, no defense team could get him out of this pickle, but Sachak esp is an embarassment to the legal profession.


Several witnesses who were less than cooperative, SS, LW1, LW2... have been a disappointment. Yet, witnesses like AJ and now JV have restored my confidence.


JV will continue being x-examined this week, feeling sorry for him but also respect his comment to Sachak "You do the math" LOL Hope that JV will be well rested and able to retain his composure while Sachak dances around throwing more barbs.


On the JV testimony... This appears to likely be the white van...(from April 2010)

Source
http://m.thespec.com/news-story/446...er-dellen-millard-s-vehicles-listed-on-kijiji


The next two weeks are potentially going to bring the pinnacle of the crown testimony. While we all wait in anticipation... Here is hoping that the coming witnesses will restore our confidence that there are still good people out there who will not compromise their morals for a 10K bonus cheque or a 40K Car.

Will MM, CN and AM... take the high road... recover what they each can from their reputations and speak the unvarnished and entire truth... and allow justice to be served? :crossfingers::crossfingers:

Cheers

(all my opinion only)

 

[brightii]

I'm at the point of realizing that no matter how much evidence is to follow the massive amount already presented, I'll never understand the motivation for murder unless one or both of the accused talk, and perhaps not even then.


Trying to figure everything out among amateur sleuths sometimes feels to me like the whole thing is fiction, and though I am shocked by the crime, I am merely an interested yet distant observer and the verdicts will not impact me directly.


When I think about the very real crime, the genuine victim, TB, and all those who cared about him, even depended upon him, all those innocent people left hurting for a lifetime, I know there is no acceptable explanation possible that will alter that truth or make much difference to them.


I want justice to be delivered by way of the verdicts, but in the end, the reality is that the verdicts will only be one phase of this heartbreaking crime, and for those directly affected, the pain may ease with time, but IMO, it will never really end.

TB's murder and the unspeakable horror in the fact that he was also incinerated is IMO, an unforgivable crime!


All MOO.

 

[matou]

Welcome Just4TB! That would be the white van for sure.

I have seen a photo of MS sitting in a van but not sure if it is the same one as the one in the hangar.

:welcome4::welcome4:

 

[Elisabeth]

I read somewhere recently (and I will look for the link) that the forcible confinement and murder have to be separate . The example the article gave was a strangulation murder. If you were to strangle someone you would have to hold them down to do so (or they will get up and leave). So the holding down in that case is not a forcible confinement separate from the murder. It is part of the murder.

The reason I am speculating that the Bosma murder may have been preceded by forcible confinement is an idea that if you pull a gun on someone you are detaining them and controlling where they go (the forcible confinement). If you end up shooting them, even if not planned, then it is murder, and first degree at that. But the original forcible confinement wasn't necessary for the murder and is therefore separate. You can shoot someone without first controlling their movements by holding a gun on them is what i am saying. But this is my hypothesis.

 

[MsSherlock]

Each defense will have a story about how the other guy committed the murder/truck theft, and that their client wasn't present when the murder occurred. To counter this, the Crown will have to present evidence that they planned to commit the crime.

MOO

I'm not sure how either D will have the opportunity to present the stories of their clients without them taking the stand. Since it's been reported to be a "cut throat" defence strategy, it kind of sounds that they're going to continue to sling mud at each other, but will this just be limited to their cross examinations of the Crown's witnesses? If the testimony from CN, MM and AM proves to be credible and beneficial to the Crown, it's going to be interesting to see how the two D's counter. MOO

"It will be weeks before the defence — Ravin Pillay and Nadir Sachak for Millard and Thomas Dungey and Jennifer Trehearne for Smich — will have a turn to present their case. Even then there is a possibility, as frequently happens at murder trials, that they will call no witnesses.

The onus is on the Crown to prove guilt. Yet in small and subtle ways, the defence teams chip away at the Crown's case through their cross-examinations."

"The most powerful tactic the defence teams have employed so far, though, is the cutthroat defence. Each accused pointing the finger at the other."

http://www.thespec.com/opinion-story/6309994-bosma-trial-defence-target-police-investigation/

 

[mskrisc]

This is why premeditation is so important in this case. The cleanup effort and circumstantial evidence suggest that either DM or MS, or both of them together killed TB. However, IMO, there is not enough evidence to say beyond a reasonable doubt which of them should be found guilty, unless they can show that the murder or truck theft was premeditated.

DM knows this and it is why he wrote to CN "if only he [DM's roommate] knew how his words would give me a life sentence, he would change them. Show him how he can."

JMO

Which roommate do you think? Seems so many roomed in his house.