Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #8

[mskrisc]

So being DM's mother, can the Crown/LE actually subpoena her? After all she wasn't even in town when DM parked the trailer in her driveway.

I'm asking because the case I was subpoenaed to, the guys mother had incriminating words to add but the Crown/LE couldn't subpoena her. They told me that she'd have to come forward on her own. The 2 brothers also had some information but again, they didn't get subpoenaed either. Even with me telling the LE the one brother COULD help their case better then I could.

Spouses have some clause where they don't have to testify against their spouse, is this the same with parents and siblings? I'm not really understanding how this works?

I fully believe MB thinks her son is innocent as she has claimed " he will be cleared " IMO MB is his enabler !

 

[flipflop]

I read that he took the BBQ to Mexico for the Baja race? Why????? There was mention that whoever was accompanying him said that it created more complicated stuff at the customs border. Why would he drag that thing to Mexico?

Can you provide a link to wherever you read that info?

 

[flipflop]

Just noticed that earlier I gave credit to someone else for the Great Visuals provided by Just4TB....great job clearing up a difficult issue....thanks.

Still looks like the headrest/seat to me.

 

[Inspector_North]

I read that he took the BBQ to Mexico for the Baja race? Why????? There was mention that whoever was accompanying him said that it created more complicated stuff at the customs border. Why would he drag that thing to Mexico?

They took the Generator to the Baja so they could use it for repair, like welding.

 

[Yendys]

I say SS told DM immediately after AJ told him after work on the 9th. Up until that point DM was moving ahead with the paint job. If it was on the morning of the 10th, when SS and DM where seen conversing, the truck would most likely be there.

Remember that DM texted this to SS on the evening of the 9th. SS said he thought the family DM was texting about was the Bosma family.

"But even though Schlatman said he did not talk to Millard about the truck being Bosma’s, court was shown text messages between the two sent on the evening of Thursday, May 9.“I can’t stop thinking about what that family’s going through,” says a text from Millard’s cellphone. “I want to take (the truck) back, but I’m a little concerned (at) how that’s going to play out.”"

The heated conversation was most likely about DM telling SS he was firing his FIL.

MOO

I was going back through the exhibits and in the cell phone pings (exhibit #37 - slide 29) from Wednesday May 8th there are two interesting enteries:
Millard texts Schlatman 5:56 pm
Millard calls Schlatman 6:19 pm

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...AGTr4PrZnEc7rU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#slide=id.p65

Did we hear from the recent testimony what the content of the text from 5:56 pm was? DM was looking for the pressure water early in the morning of the 8th but I don't recall anything about the text in the evening. Then a phone call to perhaps discuss xyz.

ETA: Found it thank to Bill Andrew's awesome timelines/exhibits reference
5:56pm DM texts SS: makes sure your shop door is closed when you leave.

If LE was only including relevant pings in their report, then what was in the shop that it was so important the SS close the door that night so no one would see?:thinking:
Was presentation of this blocked by the defence? Was the phone call when SS and DM talked about where the truck came from?... though SS denies they did.
All MOO

 

[Quaere_veritatem]

I read that he took the BBQ to Mexico for the Baja race? Why????? There was mention that whoever was accompanying him said that it created more complicated stuff at the customs border. Why would he drag that thing to Mexico?

They took the big generator with them, the one they used for welding, as testified by SS

 

[mskrisc]

They took the big generator with them, the one they used for welding, as testified by SS

I believe that was SS and he was referring to the trailer they were pulling.

 

[Inspector_North]

I was going back through the exhibits and in the cell phone pings (exhibit #37 - slide 29) from Wednesday May 8th there are two interesting enteries:
Millard texts Schlatman 5:56 pm
Millard calls Schlatman 6:19 pm

https://docs.google.com/presentatio...AGTr4PrZnEc7rU/edit?pref=2&pli=1#slide=id.p65

Did we hear from the recent testimony what the content of the text from 5:56 pm was? DM was looking for the pressure water early in the morning of the 8th but I don't recall anything about the text in the evening. Then a phone call to perhaps discuss xyz.

Interesting! :waitasec:

However, AJ took a picture of the truck on the 9th, and to me it looks like it still has the trim and lights. We know that DM had SS strip it to ready for painting.

DM had SS call about a windshield removal tool. That was on the 8th
DM called Tony DiCiano for an urgent paint job. That was on the 8th
DM calls Tony back the next day cancelling the paint job. On the 9th. What time??

Seems that something spooked DM on the 9th to change plans. The time it occurred is important. Before or after the AJ/SS man to man talk? Especially if the photo AJ took is before being stripped for painting. We know the truck was moved the evening of the 9th stripped. Only leaving the time frame between the photo on the 9th and when DM loaded the truck to take to his mother's residence.

 

[ABro]

Still looks like the headrest/seat to me.

My blog post on Arthur Jennings testimony:

When he first saw it, Jennings testified, “except for the back bench seat, everything else was out of it.” The plates were gone too. There were some paint cans on the tarp.

There were no front seats no matter what you think you see.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/2016/02/by-special-request-day-4-of-the-tim-bosma-trial.html

 

[Inspector_North]

Went back to this photo

Reports say that the Headlights were removed. That tells me that SS was still under direction to strip the truck after the AJ photo on the 9th. The headlights in AJ's photo are definitely there.

So some time after the photo, DM was spooked. That would be on the 9th. Timing is now important.

MOO

 

[Inspector_North]

You might want to verify which day Jennings took the picture of the truck. I'm pretty sure his testimony says it was the 8th. On the 9th he called Crimestoppers.

I thought I did in post #205. Quoted the day from a NP article.

Thanks, that is an important piece to get correct.

Looked back at AJ's testimony, the photos were taken on the 9th.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...l-oh-my-god-could-that-be-the-truck-1.3433214

 

[Kamille]

You might want to verify which day Jennings took the picture of the truck. I'm pretty sure his testimony says it was the 8th. On the 9th he called Crimestoppers.

When Arthur Jennings walked into his work co-op at Millard Air at the Waterloo, Ont., airport on May 8, 2013, he instantly thought he recognized the black Dodge truck sitting on the hangar floor.

On May 9, Jennings came back to work, took pictures of the truck and its VIN number and called Crime Stoppers.

The picture was taken on the 9th, the same day he called crimestoppers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620

 

[Kamille]

Went back to this photo

Reports say that the Headlights were removed. That tells me that SS was still under direction to strip the truck after the AJ photo on the 9th. The headlights in AJ's photo are definitely there.

So some time after the photo, DM was spooked. That would be on the 9th. Timing is now important.

MOO

I've always figured that DM was preparing the truck to be moved to the auto body shop on the 9th because he knew he had a meeting on the 10th. At what point did he change his mind about that and move it to his mother's house instead, including picking up and putting the burned seat frame in the trailer as well. And why? It appears he headed to the farm around 4pm. What did spook him? Did AJ mention to SS that he had some important info to discuss with the family and SS, who had to answer questions like "why are the seats gone" with a bold faced lie about mold...which he then indicated that never had DM brought in a vehicle with the seats ripped out before...major discrepancy...probably knew what AJ was going to discuss with the family. So I'd say he tipped DM off early that AJ was suspicious and calling a family meeting and confirmed the Crimestopper news later.

MOO

ETA: Confirmation that he was planning on moving the truck, in the trailer, to the autobody shop on May 9th.

HAMILTON—One of the men accused of killing Tim Bosma placed an urgent order to have a black pickup truck painted red just days after the Hamilton man went missing, court heard Monday.

The owner of an autobody shop testified that Dellen Millard called him on May 8, 2013, wanting a rush job on the work and offering to drop off the truck the next day.

When asked if he wanted the interior repainted as well, Millard said he had already stripped it down and to leave it black, Tony Diciano told the court.
But before the work could be done, Millard left a message with the shop’s manager to cancel the order, Diciano said.

A longtime customer, Millard had never before requested that kind of work or with such a quick turnaround, the shop owner said.
“That is the first time,” he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620

 

[billandrew]

When Arthur Jennings walked into his work co-op at Millard Air at the Waterloo, Ont., airport on May 8, 2013, he instantly thought he recognized the black Dodge truck sitting on the hangar floor.

On May 9, Jennings came back to work, took pictures of the truck and its VIN number and called Crime Stoppers.

The picture was taken on the 9th, the same day he called crimestoppers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620

Thanks! Even my timeline showed the 9th. Not sure what caused me to think it was the 8th!

 

[Inspector_North]

I've always figured that DM was preparing the truck to be moved to the auto body shop on the 9th because he knew he had a meeting on the 10th. At what point did he change his mind about that and move it to his mother's house instead, including picking up and putting the burned seat frame in the trailer as well. And why? It appears he headed to the farm around 4pm. What did spook him? Did AJ mention to SS that he had some important info to discuss with the family and SS, who had to answer questions like "why are the seats gone" with a bold faced lie about mold...which he then indicated that never had DM brought in a vehicle with the seats ripped out before...major discrepancy...probably knew what AJ was going to discuss with the family. So I'd say he tipped DM off early that AJ was suspicious and calling a family meeting and confirmed the Crimestopper news later.

MOO

I would like to know the time of day he called Tony on the 9th to cancel the paint job.

 

[Kamille]

They took the Generator to the Baja so they could use it for repair, like welding.

Speaking of the generator, since DM was looking for it prior to the murder, does this mean that he figured he would be using it at the farm? Did the fact that TB ended up being killed in the truck instead of outside it factor in to why the plan changed to moving the incinerator to the hangar? I'd imagine he decided that he needed to move that truck indoors before daybreak and get to work cleaning it up considering the state of the interior. I think the only thing about this murder that perhaps was not planned was where TB was killed. That did require a little extra effort in the aftermath and probably was not the original intended crime scene.

MOO

 

[Errrr]

When Arthur Jennings walked into his work co-op at Millard Air at the Waterloo, Ont., airport on May 8, 2013, he instantly thought he recognized the black Dodge truck sitting on the hangar floor.

On May 9, Jennings came back to work, took pictures of the truck and its VIN number and called Crime Stoppers.

The picture was taken on the 9th, the same day he called crimestoppers.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ing-beyond-hope-it-wasn-t-the-truck-1.3433620

It's interesting that the sight of a stolen truck amongst several stolen vehicles in that hangar makes him physically sick? I'm suspecting he saw more than a stolen truck, or knew there was more to the situation. Did he throw up every time stolen vehicles appeared in the hangar? Does he throw up when missing people are reported in the news?

 

[Kamille]

I would like to know the time of day he called Tony on the 9th to cancel the paint job.

IIRC, he left a message with the shop manager. His phone records should show when this was done. Don't know why this time wasn't picked up in the tweets. :waitasec:

Adam Carter

Feb 8 2016 11:21 AMPillay says phone records show Millard called Diciano at 12:26 p.m. on May 8, 2013 twice talking about the truck. The first call went to a message machine.

Feb 8 2016 11:21 AMMillard called again on May 9 and cancelled the order, Pillay says phone records show.

Even RP didn't seem to want to point out the May 9th time?

 

[Inspector_North]

IIRC, he left a message with the shop manager. His phone records should show when this was done. Don't know why this time wasn't picked up in the tweets. :waitasec:

Adam Carter

Feb 8 2016 11:21 AMPillay says phone records show Millard called Diciano at 12:26 p.m. on May 8, 2013 twice talking about the truck. The first call went to a message machine.

Feb 8 2016 11:21 AMMillard called again on May 9 and cancelled the order, Pillay says phone records show.

Even RP didn't seem to want to point out the May 9th time?

Strange? It is an important piece of the puzzle IMO. Especially with SS's testimony being 'nebulous' for lack of a better word.

 

[billandrew]

Speaking of the generator, since DM was looking for it prior to the murder, does this mean that he figured he would be using it at the farm? Did the fact that TB ended up being killed in the truck instead of outside it factor in to why the plan changed to moving the incinerator to the hangar? I'd imagine he decided that he needed to move that truck indoors before daybreak and get to work cleaning it up considering the state of the interior. I think the only thing about this murder that perhaps was not planned was where TB was killed. That did require a little extra effort in the aftermath and probably was not the original intended crime scene.

MOO

IMO they planned to use the incinerator at the farm but something didn't go as intended. Perhaps there was no fuel for the generator, or it malfunctioned. Even if they did want to take the truck to the hangar, why not just leave the incinerator running at the farm - assuming they could get it working - and come back to it later?