Brad Cooper Indicted

[Maja]

Thanks for the correction. The point remains the same however - Brad wanted it out that the phone was locked. I do think he used nancy's phone to call MH and tried to cover it by telling HP the phone was locked. Of course he wasn't going to call Cary either.

Again - thanks - we need to keep the facts straight !

Ok. For clarification: BC calls HP stating NC has not returned from a run needs Cary's #, BC must have indicated to HP the fact NC's keys and phone were still at the house, right?

What exactly was found in the X5? Was it just NC's purse?

 

[raisincharlie]

RC are you suggesting that there was a call well after the alleged 6:40 call from Nancy on her phone?

I'm certainly leaning that way Star. The reason being MH being questioned three times about phone calls between him and Brad that Saturday morning after 9 am by LE. Once over the phone and two times at the police station. There has to be a reason that MH assumed he was helping Brad establish an alibi and there has to be a reason MH assumed LE was accusing him of using Nancy's phone in some fashion. I seriously doubt he invented his perceptions- maybe didn't understand them but for some reason he is of th emind LE was saying he used Nancy's phone. The only calls MH admits to occurred after 9 am on the 12th.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Didn't Jessica tell BC that she didn't know Carey's number, but then looked it up in the phone book for the 911 operator?

I'm sorry Star, I don't know if this happened or not; I'm not remembering this from the 911 call.

 

[raisincharlie]

Ok. For clarification: BC calls HP stating NC has not returned from a run needs Cary's #, BC must have indicated to HP the fact NC's keys and phone were still at the house, right?

What exactly was found in the X5? Was it just NC's purse?

Just the purse was in the X5. According to the search warrant for the house, the phone was observed in the house and the keys to the X5 were observed on a key table next to the front door.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Ok. For clarification: BC calls HP stating NC has not returned from a run needs Cary's #, BC must have indicated to HP the fact NC's keys and phone were still at the house, right?

HP called Brad around 10am or 10:30am. Brad tells HP that Nancy is out running/maybe getting coffee/isn't back yet. Brad called HP between noon and 1pm to ask if HP happens to have CC's # since Nancy was still not back yet. HP doesn't know CC so she wouldn't have CC's #. She suggests to Brad that he look at Nancy's phone to get CC's # from there (HP knew that Nancy did not have her phone w/her...I'm assuming she learned of this from JA). Brad says, "Oh good idea!" Then Brad reports that Nancy's phone is locked and he is unable to access it to get CC's #. Then Brad supposedly decides he'll go drive around and look for CC's car in her townhouse community.

What exactly was found in the X5? Was it just NC's purse?

yes.

 

[reddress58]

I'm certainly leaning that way Star. The reason being MH being questioned three times about phone calls between him and Brad that Saturday morning after 9 am by LE. Once over the phone and two times at the police station. There has to be a reason that MH assumed he was helping Brad establish an alibi and there has to be a reason MH assumed LE was accusing him of using Nancy's phone in some fashion. I seriously doubt he invented his perceptions- maybe didn't understand them but for some reason he is of th emind LE was saying he used Nancy's phone. The only calls MH admits to occurred after 9 am on the 12th.

I agree with you about MH, but for different reasons. I doubt he had any involvement in a cover-up or the murder. Why? Brad would never trust him....or anyone for that matter. Remember...this guy (BC) thinks he's smarter than everyone. It's a narcisissitic/sociopathic trait. He would expect MH to screw up (which he ultimately did with the statment concerning police coersion) Brad would never allow anyone to be privy to his deed, neither would he trust anyone with a secret of such magnitude.

Any involvment of MH was purely for the sake of establishing an alibi IMHO, and MH was a unknowing participant.

 

[raisincharlie]

See I don't know about that...first of all Brad was not expecting either JA or HP to call him that morning, let alone several times. He didn't know NC had plans to paint w/JA. And there wasn't just one phone call...there were a few that morning. I think Brad wanted to make it look like he was being proactive in asking for CC's # when he realized the call frequency from JA was escalating, along with call(s) from HP. He had no idea that HP would suggest to him that he look at Nancy's phone to get CC's # when he called her for it. What if she hadn't suggested he look at Nancy's phone and just said, "sorry I don't have her number...maybe you should try Googling it." I think Brad wanted to look worried, proactive and like he was doing the normal things one would do to find a wife who was late coming home. I think the cell phone being locked was just something that got thrown in there...and I'm sure Nancy did keep it locked, at least certain parts of it.

I don't think its safe to assume what Brad did or didn't know. This is a man who in a webchat with his kids was asking the kids about where Krista's dog was. He's tricky and he is sneaky - JWB confirmed that much about him.

Everyone seems to think there was some big argument betwixt these two prior to Nancy being murdered - there is no telling what she may have said to him during that argument. With that thought in mind and his ability to be a sneak - I'm not exactly willing to take his word that he didn't know. It seems obvious to me he knows more than he appears to know - just look at what he had subpeona'd against Nancy's friends. Tells me he wasn't oblivious to what was going on around him.

 

[justthinking2008]

See I don't know about that...first of all Brad was not expecting either JA or HP to call him that morning, let alone several times. He didn't know NC had plans to paint w/JA. And there wasn't just one phone call...there were a few that morning. I think Brad wanted to make it look like he was being proactive in asking for CC's # when he realized the call frequency from JA was escalating, along with call(s) from HP. He had no idea that HP would suggest to him that he look at Nancy's phone to get CC's # when he called her for it. What if she hadn't suggested he look at Nancy's phone and just said, "sorry I don't have her number...maybe you should try Googling it." I think Brad wanted to look worried, proactive and like he was doing the normal things one would do to find a wife who was late coming home. I think the cell phone being locked was just something that got thrown in there...and I'm sure Nancy did keep it locked, at least certain parts of it.

Please help me to understand something, if JA and HP had not been to NC's house yet, how did they know NC's phone was home, since they both said she never left home without it, did I miss something?

 

[reddress58]

Please help me to understand something, if JA and HP had not been to NC's house yet, how did they know NC's phone was home, since they both said she never left home without it, did I miss something?

Brad told them during the calls. They probably said they had tried to reach her and he responded by saying her phone was at the house. This was one of their first clues that something was wrong.

 

[SleuthyGal]

RC,

Back to the tennis plans for a moment, if you would indulge me.

The planning the night before with MH asking NC 'permission' then having NC phone Brad to grant this permission after Brad had already left the party, etc. seems strange...we agree on that.

So if that scenario as described by MH seems strange, then why do you think that MH was 'duped' by Brad? Seems to me the hinkyness around the tennis plans started with the making of the tennis plans in the first place and the way it went down with Nancy giving her permission, etc...i.e. you said it 'smells bad' to you.

I think what transpired Sat. morning with the phone call to MH from Brad was all Brad's doing, yes. However, if there is a question as to whether tennis plans really existed at all, MH participated in that story--a story he told in his affy.

And yes, the planning may have happened exactly the way MH described it, but if the tennis story/planning smells bad, then what do you think the real story might be?

 

[Maja]

RC,

Back to the tennis plans for a moment, if you would indulge me.

The planning the night before with MH asking NC 'permission' then having NC phone Brad to grant this permission after Brad had already left the party, etc. seems strange...we agree on that.

So if that scenario as described by MH seems strange, then why do you think that MH was 'duped' by Brad? Seems to me the hinkyness around the tennis plans started with the making of the tennis plans in the first place and the way it went down with Nancy giving her permission, etc...i.e. you said it 'smells bad' to you.

I think what transpired Sat. morning with the phone call to MH from Brad was all Brad's doing, yes. However, if there is a question as to whether tennis plans really existed at all, MH participated in that story--a story he told in his affy.

And yes, the planning may have happened exactly the way MH described it, but if the tennis story/planning smells bad, then what do you think the real story might be?

Perhaps that's what the final argument was about. NC came home and BC was furious over MH's call and NC "giving permission" for him to play tennis. Perhaps MH said something to the effect, "Brad, Nancy says it's cool for you to meet at 9:30 am tomorrow for a game of tennis, are you game?" So when NC got home BC was livid over her apparently "giving him a pass" to go play. I don't know...I've racked my brain sore over this like so many others.

 

[Maja]

I just re-read Michael Morwick's affy and he said:

11. Nancy didn't feel well halfway through dinner due to her Chron's disease.
She went home, Brad stayed with Bella and Katie.



Did Nancy come back after going home? I always had the idea Brad went home with the girls and Nancy stayed for a while after.

 

[calgary123]

I agree with you about MH, but for different reasons. I doubt he had any involvement in a cover-up or the murder. Why? Brad would never trust him....or anyone for that matter. Remember...this guy (BC) thinks he's smarter than everyone. It's a narcisissitic/sociopathic trait. He would expect MH to screw up (which he ultimately did with the statment concerning police coersion) Brad would never allow anyone to be privy to his deed, neither would he trust anyone with a secret of such magnitude.

Any involvment of MH was purely for the sake of establishing an alibi IMHO, and MH was a unknowing participant.

I could not agree with this more. Very well put.

EDIT: I'm trying to say, to me this explanation fits Brad to a 'T', it really resonated when I read it, and I've read a lot of speculation on this forum about Brad... but this really rings correct with my instinct. Of course, I have no fact to back it up.

 

[SleuthyGal]

I just re-read Michael Morwick's affy and he said:

11. Nancy didn't feel well halfway through dinner due to her Chron's disease. She went home, Brad stayed with Bella and Katie.

Oh now this is interesting! Because in Brad's affy he states that he and Nancy went home w/the girls together to put them to bed, he stayed home and Nancy went back to the party. Yet another inconsistency in versions of the story (or perhaps memory loss on someone's part).

Actually we need a spreadsheet with all of Brad's various statements from police interviews, affys, rebuttal affys in the first column, and then each corresponding statement by the other affiant in successive columns after that to see the disparate versions across each statement. The prosecution team should do just that, and then deliver this spreadsheet to us poste haste so that we can properly analyze!

 

[momto3kids]

Oh now this is interesting! Because in Brad's affy he states that he and Nancy went home w/the girls together to put them to bed, he stayed home and Nancy went back to the party. Yet another inconsistency in versions of the story (or perhaps memory loss on someone's part).

Actually we need a spreadsheet with all of Brad's various statements from police interviews, affys, rebuttal affys in the first column, and then each corresponding statement by the other affiant in successive columns after that to see the disparate versions across each statement. The prosecution team should do just that, and then deliver this spreadsheet to us poste haste so that we can properly analyze!

IIRC this is when they went to the Morwicks on Wed night for dinner, not Friday night at the BBQ.

 

[momto3kids]

RC,

Back to the tennis plans for a moment, if you would indulge me.

The planning the night before with MH asking NC 'permission' then having NC phone Brad to grant this permission after Brad had already left the party, etc. seems strange...we agree on that.

So if that scenario as described by MH seems strange, then why do you think that MH was 'duped' by Brad? Seems to me the hinkyness around the tennis plans started with the making of the tennis plans in the first place and the way it went down with Nancy giving her permission, etc...i.e. you said it 'smells bad' to you.

I think what transpired Sat. morning with the phone call to MH from Brad was all Brad's doing, yes. However, if there is a question as to whether tennis plans really existed at all, MH participated in that story--a story he told in his affy.

And yes, the planning may have happened exactly the way MH described it, but if the tennis story/planning smells bad, then what do you think the real story might be?

I have to question why MH didn't even mention tennis plans in his 1st affidavit. :waitasec:

An additional affidavit is done including the tennis plans only when he becomes upset with CPD for questioning him about NC cell phone. FISHY!

 

[raisincharlie]

I have to question why MH didn't even mention tennis plans in his 1st affidavit. :waitasec:

An additional affidavit is done including the tennis plans only when he becomes upset with CPD for questioning him about NC cell phone. FISHY!

Mt3K - for some reason it does not bother me that some information does not appear in earlier affidavits but shows up in later ones. What is dicussed in the affidavits may be directed by a lawyer. In other words a lawyer says here are the topics for you to discuss and nothing beyond this set. So this does not seem nefarious to me at all. In the case of MH - I can understand the later additions to include the tennis plans as things had changed dramatically from just prior to the July hearing.

My reference to duped - I think there is a possibility that Nancy's phone was used to make calls between Brad and MH after 9 am. Brad being the user. Would MH know if Brad was using Nancy's phone ? The thing about phone records, they only prove calls were made on a specific phone, not who actually made them. We know LE interviewed him three times about those calls. Somehow, MH came to the conclusion that LE was accusing him of using Nancy's phone to help Brad.

Based on what you have been told, there seems to have been an attempt by Brad to somehow place Nancy at LTF the afternoon she went missing, it seems reasonable to me he could have used her phone to show activity on the phone after 7am as well by using it to call MH. Not saying it was bright but it seems LE asked if MH was trying to help Brad establish an alibi - doesn't mean MH knew anything at all.

 

[SleuthyGal]

Hey RC's on! RC, you may have missed my earlier post..I was hoping I could get your thoughts on the following.

 

[raisincharlie]

I agree with you about MH, but for different reasons. I doubt he had any involvement in a cover-up or the murder. Why? Brad would never trust him....or anyone for that matter. Remember...this guy (BC) thinks he's smarter than everyone. It's a narcisissitic/sociopathic trait. He would expect MH to screw up (which he ultimately did with the statment concerning police coersion) Brad would never allow anyone to be privy to his deed, neither would he trust anyone with a secret of such magnitude.

Any involvment of MH was purely for the sake of establishing an alibi IMHO, and MH was a unknowing participant.

I would agree about the trust issue and MH being an unknowing participant. In the case of murder, that would be wise to not trust. Depending on how this pans out, it is possible it could be part of the reason used by the DA to request a murder 1 charge through LE from the GJ. Add in that he never gave Nancy her allowance on Friday, she asked about it, they argued about it, he offered to go get it but he never did it even though he had the opportunity to do so on his way home. He wasn't going to give it to her Saturday morning either - he was out and about between 6 and 7 am for sure, he could have stopped at an ATM during those trips, bet there is one in the HT even, but he didn't. He was going to play tennis later so he had no thought of giving Nancy her allowance for a while...he could have used her phone to make calls as well.

 

[raisincharlie]

Hey RC's on! RC, you may have missed my earlier post..I was hoping I could get your thoughts on the following.

I think for the most part I have touched parts of your question with the exception of what I think the real story is. I think the real story is probably that MH did ask Nancy but Brad was still at the party and they made their plans from there. I don't think Nancy called Brad on her phone , across the street, and handed the phone to MH so the plans could be made as Brad claims. I think MH thought they were going to play tennis on Saturday morning and that's it.


ETA - MH does not claim in his affidavit that Nancy called Brad and then they arranged their tennis plans. The way his affidavit reads, the plans were made at the party.

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/wtvd/20080930155921.pdf

I will go look at Skittles excellent list to see where Brad talks about it as I am pretty certain it is Brad who claims the plans were made over the phone.