Brendan Dassey: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's rape, torture, and murder?

[Saul Vesalot]

That doesn’t mean he can only read fourth grade books, it means he comprehends at a fourth grade level.

Where I work the policy is to hire 'slow' people to do some of the menial work. One of them I often see reading adult level novels while on his break.

Not really a rebuttal or anything to you guys, just continuing on with the subject.

His 4th grade reading level made me think about the books I was reading in 4th grade. They were often WAY above my head but I liked them still. I read Moby Dick, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, the Red Badge of Courage, Huckleberry Finn, Tom Sawyer, a collection of Edgar Allen Poe short stories and poems. Probably other stuff I can't remember. I understood quite a lot of these books and even parts I didn't truly understand stuck with me for years and years.

James Patterson, the author of Kiss the Girls, is no Herman Melville.

 

[SJ16321]

Thanks for your opinion but I firmly believe SA/BD killed TH - has nothing to do with the Dassey/Avery families. Has to do with the evidence presented and nothing to do with the controlled tests and theories KZ has come up with.

What evidence? There's not a single bit of evidence that links Dassey to the murder bar the confession. There's been numerous programmes on people who confessed to things they didn't do and some of these are completely average people, nevermind someone who doesn't function at a usual level of intelligence. You also have to question why you've only got a confession? Very few people can kill somebody in such a violent way and leave no physical evidence behind.

The simple fact is that it's beyond belief that it went down the way Dassey said it did. The scene that Dassey describes leaves behind a hell of a lot of blood and DNA, where's the evidence of this? I'm guessing the prosecution want us to believe that this guy who couldn't possibly be quoting from a book as he doesn't understand that level of book, is somehow a master at cleaning crime scenes. It really is laughable when you write it down.

I can't say for sure that Avery didn't kill her, he may well have done. However I'm not buying for a second that it went down the way Dassey describes which suggests to me he wasn't involved even if Avery did do it. Police just focused on Dassey as they knew he was a weak link and could be pressured into saying what they wanted.

The police have failed Teresa and her family by conducting this ludicrous botch job of an investigation where they decided it was Avery from the off and didn't even look at other options. By his own admission, Teresa's ex wasn't even asked for an alibi! What kind of policing is that?

 

[proudfootz]

According to this report there was no alert in Steven Avery's bedroom, which would seem to knock the bottom out of the scenario cobbled together from the many contradictory statements extracted from Brendan about supposed crimes committed against Teresa.

"K9 Brutus was now re-assigned to check various specific areas/buildings with investigators. We first moved to the red mobile home, identified as Steven Avery's. We checked the interior of the residence. Brutus checked the bedroom area with increased interest, but no alert. He alerted in the bathroom/laundry room with his trained bark alert (ALERT #4). No source scent was visible at the time. No other interest inside the residence."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Exhibit-46-Scent-and-Cadaver-Dogs-Reports.pdf

 

[Sustained]

What evidence? There's not a single bit of evidence that links Dassey to the murder bar the confession. There's been numerous programmes on people who confessed to things they didn't do and some of these are completely average people, nevermind someone who doesn't function at a usual level of intelligence. You also have to question why you've only got a confession? Very few people can kill somebody in such a violent way and leave no physical evidence behind.

The simple fact is that it's beyond belief that it went down the way Dassey said it did. The scene that Dassey describes leaves behind a hell of a lot of blood and DNA, where's the evidence of this? I'm guessing the prosecution want us to believe that this guy who couldn't possibly be quoting from a book as he doesn't understand that level of book, is somehow a master at cleaning crime scenes. It really is laughable when you write it down.

I can't say for sure that Avery didn't kill her, he may well have done. However I'm not buying for a second that it went down the way Dassey describes which suggests to me he wasn't involved even if Avery did do it. Police just focused on Dassey as they knew he was a weak link and could be pressured into saying what they wanted.

The police have failed Teresa and her family by conducting this ludicrous botch job of an investigation where they decided it was Avery from the off and didn't even look at other options. By his own admission, Teresa's ex wasn't even asked for an alibi! What kind of policing is that?

If TH was killed on 10/31, how many days did SA have to clean up the crime scene before TH was declared missing ? Who said BD was a master of cleaning crime scenes ?
IMO, he was led around by the nose by his uncle. There are just too many things in his confession(s) to just poo poo them away as all made up. I don't know if BD raped her, stabbed her, or whatever but what kid is cleaning stains from a garage floor on Halloween night with bleach ? I can hear Steven now ... "Hey Brendan, how about getting some bleach from the house and wipe up than tranny fluid ? SA just happened to want to clean the garage floor on Halloween ?

BD was reported as crying a lot of the time after TH's murder. Breakup w/girlfriend or guilt from a murder ? Loses 40 lbs - anxiety over a murder or breakup with GF ? Go listen to BD's call to Barb - all of the pro-Avery crowd like to think BD was told by police what to say to Barb. There is far too much pointing at SA/BD. KZ says there is no way SA got his blood near the ignition switch on the Rav4. How does she know the circumstances at the time, i.e. how dark, was SA nervous, did his hand slip ?

Most of the folks on this board are enamored with KZ as she has sprung numerous individuals from jail. However, that does not make her infallible.

 

[Sustained]

According to this report there was no alert in Steven Avery's bedroom, which would seem to knock the bottom out of the scenario cobbled together from the many contradictory statements extracted from Brendan about supposed crimes committed against Teresa.

"K9 Brutus was now re-assigned to check various specific areas/buildings with investigators. We first moved to the red mobile home, identified as Steven Avery's. We checked the interior of the residence. Brutus checked the bedroom area with increased interest, but no alert. He alerted in the bathroom/laundry room with his trained bark alert (ALERT #4). No source scent was visible at the time. No other interest inside the residence."

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Exhibit-46-Scent-and-Cadaver-Dogs-Reports.pdf

IMO, it doesn't knock out anything. SA had at least 3 days to clean up his house before TH was declared missing. It was either a crime scene tech or a police officer that commented on how clean SA's house appeared. Is it possible he was a very clean guy ? No, take a look at the dirt under his fingernails in the photo of his cut used at trial.

 

[proudfootz]

IIRC Steven was waiting on phone calls from his girlfriend whose regular pass to attend self-help meeting was suddenly cancelled. Not crazy to do some cleaning since you have to hang around home.

 

[proudfootz]

I just can't buy the argument 'anything is possible' as an excuse to take away someone's freedom.

 

[Sustained]

IIRC Steven was waiting on phone calls from his girlfriend whose regular pass to attend self-help meeting was suddenly cancelled. Not crazy to do some cleaning since you have to hang around home.

BBM - IMO, single guy working in a salvage yard ... not likely.

 

[Sustained]

I just can't buy the argument 'anything is possible' as an excuse to take away someone's freedom.

SA was not convicted on an "anything is possible" scenario. His DNA is in the Rav4, bones in his fire pit, TH shot by the gun in his house, key found in his house. And his nephew implicated him in multiple statements and then denied them on the stand with his "Kiss the Girls" fairy tale. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you about SA's past history with women.

 

[proudfootz]

SA was not convicted on an "anything is possible" scenario. His DNA is in the Rav4, bones in his fire pit, TH shot by the gun in his house, key found in his house. And his nephew implicated him in multiple statements and then denied them on the stand with his "Kiss the Girls" fairy tale. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you about SA's past history with women.

Until there is some kind of evidence of a massive cleanup in Steven's home - expert enough to remove every molecule of evidence regarding the shopping list of crimes from the prosecution's story - I have no reason to suppose 'It's possible Steven cleaned every trace' as meaningful.

If you take time to read some of my other posts, you will see why the litany of the molehill of 'evidence' inculpating Steven is a chain made of nothing but weak links.

All MOO

 

[missy1974]

IIRC Steven was waiting on phone calls from his girlfriend whose regular pass to attend self-help meeting was suddenly cancelled. Not crazy to do some cleaning since you have to hang around home.

According to Jodi in her interviews, her and Steve were "clean freaks". I guess 'clean' can mean different things to different people, but their trailer/garage was definitely cluttered and was not really all that clean from what I could see in evidence photo's. Even the headboard had dust on it still.

Photos Entered into Evidence in the Trial – Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents

Unofficial Photos – Steven Avery Trial Transcripts and Documents

here is the headboard http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/exhibit-163.jpg

the living room/computer http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...bit-175-Computer-Area-In-Avery-Livingroom.jpg

bedroom http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/exhibit-Avery-room.jpg

I would expect that there would be no dust on the headboard if he was "cleaning" and removing any trace of Teresa being in the trailer. And how in the world would you clean that garage and everything in it?

 

[Karinna]

SA was not convicted on an "anything is possible" scenario. His DNA is in the Rav4, bones in his fire pit, TH shot by the gun in his house, key found in his house. And his nephew implicated him in multiple statements and then denied them on the stand with his "Kiss the Girls" fairy tale. And I'm sure I don't need to tell you about SA's past history with women.

BBM, It was not conclusively proven to be the 22 gun from SA's trailer.
(quote)
William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom, but the bullet found under an air compressor in Avery's garage was likely fired from it. That was the bullet that a state DNA expert said had Halbach's remnants on it.
Prosecutors link gun found in Steven Avery's room to bullet with Halbach's DNA
And then we have this:
(quote)
And according to Avery’s court filing, which cited a Calumet County Sheriff’s Department report, a co-worker of Tadych’s “reported that Tadych had approached him to sell him a .22 rifle that belonged to one of the Dassey boys,” and a .22 rifle is believed to be the weapon that killed Halbach.

 

[Karinna]

And now since KZ has taken the Avery case we know that the magic bullet showed no evidence of having shot TH.
What was the waxy substance found by KZ's forensic expert? Chap stick with TH's DNA on it?

 

[Saul Vesalot]

There are just too many things in his confession(s) to just poo poo them away as all made up.

This isn't even a tiny bit true. All of the stuff that has forensic evidence backing it up was told to him by police at some point. Everything else is unconfirmed/unconfirmable. Things stop counting as "something only the killer would know" once the police start telling people. Things that can't be verified as true don't count as "stuff only the killer would know" because we don't even really know that they happened.

I don't know if BD raped her, stabbed her, or whatever but what kid is cleaning stains from a garage floor on Halloween night with bleach ? I can hear Steven now ... "Hey Brendan, how about getting some bleach from the house and wipe up than tranny fluid ? SA just happened to want to clean the garage floor on Halloween ?

A kid that doesn't trick or treat? For a kid that doesn't trick or treat, Halloween is just another night.
Brendan is so "led around" by Steven that he would rape and murder at his command but not mop? Also, the bleach spot has never been demonstrated to be anything nefarious. You shoot a person, especially at close range, you get blood spatter. Stuff so small you can't see with the naked eye. The bleach spot was roughly 2 feet square. There should have been blood evidence outside of the bleach spot.

BD was reported as crying a lot of the time after TH's murder. Breakup w/girlfriend or guilt from a murder ? Loses 40 lbs - anxiety over a murder or breakup with GF ?

This is like the bleach spot. You're taking something you can't even demonstrate is nefarious and you're declaring it to be evidence. When I was in high school and got dumped by a girl I was really into, I cried a lot. I would think someone like Brendan, someone pretty naive and less emotionally mature would take a breakup especially hard.
In a phone call with his mother Brendan says he lost the weight to impress a girl, not because he was dumped.

Go listen to BD's call to Barb - all of the pro-Avery crowd like to think BD was told by police what to say to Barb. There is far too much pointing at ...BD.

I would say "literally no evidence" is not "far too much."
The call is just another way of saying "But he confessed!" It just isn't enough. Neurotypical people can get talked into believing stuff they didn't do. It is really easy.
I can only imagine it is much easier with Brendan.
It is also worth pointing out that in the phone call with Barb, Brendan says he didn't have sexual contact with Teresa or see her in the fire.
Also, when asked if he knows Steven did it, he says "not that I know of".

KZ says there is no way SA got his blood near the ignition switch on the Rav4. How does she know the circumstances at the time, i.e. how dark, was SA nervous, did his hand slip ?

Steven and Brendan are different people. Evidence against Steven doesn't automatically count as evidence against Brendan. So assuming the blood in the RAV4 is kosher, it doesn't have much to do with Brendan. It doesn't tie him to the crime.

Most of the folks on this board are enamored with KZ as she has sprung numerous individuals from jail. However, that does not make her infallible.

Being a cop or a creepy prosecutor doesn't make you infallible either. You rely heavily on things they say happen but they can't demonstrate and they never tried to demonstrate. You're taking their word for it even though they lie pretty often and pretty flagrantly.

 

[missy1974]

In case anyone is interested, there are some interesting old threads that have some valuable information:

Bleach: Brendan's pants and the garage floor

Michael O'Kelly

Brendan Dassey and False Confessions

 

[Karinna]

I wonder what was said to Brendan on things we didn't see on video tape?
Again i ask why so many people in this case were being untruthful? And there have been quite a few who were. Were they scared? And if so were they threatened? Or was it something else?
At least KZ says people are now starting to come forward.

 

[Sustained]

BBM, It was not conclusively proven to be the 22 gun from SA's trailer.
(quote)
William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn't conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery's garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom, but the bullet found under an air compressor in Avery's garage was likely fired from it. That was the bullet that a state DNA expert said had Halbach's remnants on it.
Prosecutors link gun found in Steven Avery's room to bullet with Halbach's DNA
And then we have this:
(quote)
And according to Avery’s court filing, which cited a Calumet County Sheriff’s Department report, a co-worker of Tadych’s “reported that Tadych had approached him to sell him a .22 rifle that belonged to one of the Dassey boys,” and a .22 rifle is believed to be the weapon that killed Halbach.

Hearsay about Tadych and even if he tried to sell a .22, it means nothing. You just quoted a story above that the bullet in Avery's garage was likely fired from the gun in Avery's trailer.

There is zero evidence linking Scott Tadych to the murder of TH.

 

[Sustained]

I wonder what was said to Brendan on things we didn't see on video tape?
Again i ask why so many people in this case were being untruthful? And there have been quite a few who were. Were they scared? And if so were they threatened? Or was it something else?
At least KZ says people are now starting to come forward.

BBM - funny how after 13 years people will start to come forward; people that knew SA has been sitting in jail for 13 years. KZ must have some magic power to get them to come out of the woodwork or maybe it's for publicity. Or maybe after 13 years, they don't know what the heck they saw if anything.

Like Keith Rahmlow who approached the ghost of Andrew Colborn at the Cenex station on 11/4 while the real Andrew Colborn was off that day.

 

[Sustained]

This isn't even a tiny bit true. All of the stuff that has forensic evidence backing it up was told to him by police at some point. Everything else is unconfirmed/unconfirmable. Things stop counting as "something only the killer would know" once the police start telling people. Things that can't be verified as true don't count as "stuff only the killer would know" because we don't even really know that they happened.
A kid that doesn't trick or treat? For a kid that doesn't trick or treat, Halloween is just another night.
Brendan is so "led around" by Steven that he would rape and murder at his command but not mop? Also, the bleach spot has never been demonstrated to be anything nefarious. You shoot a person, especially at close range, you get blood spatter. Stuff so small you can't see with the naked eye. The bleach spot was roughly 2 feet square. There should have been blood evidence outside of the bleach spot.


This is like the bleach spot. You're taking something you can't even demonstrate is nefarious and you're declaring it to be evidence. When I was in high school and got dumped by a girl I was really into, I cried a lot. I would think someone like Brendan, someone pretty naive and less emotionally mature would take a breakup especially hard.
In a phone call with his mother Brendan says he lost the weight to impress a girl, not because he was dumped.


I would say "literally no evidence" is not "far too much."
The call is just another way of saying "But he confessed!" It just isn't enough. Neurotypical people can get talked into believing stuff they didn't do. It is really easy.
I can only imagine it is much easier with Brendan.
It is also worth pointing out that in the phone call with Barb, Brendan says he didn't have sexual contact with Teresa or see her in the fire.
Also, when asked if he knows Steven did it, he says "not that I know of".


Steven and Brendan are different people. Evidence against Steven doesn't automatically count as evidence against Brendan. So assuming the blood in the RAV4 is kosher, it doesn't have much to do with Brendan. It doesn't tie him to the crime.

Being a cop or a creepy prosecutor doesn't make you infallible either. You rely heavily on things they say happen but they can't demonstrate and they never tried to demonstrate. You're taking their word for it even though they lie pretty often and pretty flagrantly.

Everything BD said is unconfirmable as we weren't there as we either choose to use his story or we don't. I choose to believe him. Add Kayla Avery backing off her statements to the police as another factor. I don't know how much of BD's story is true, but I choose to believe he was involved to a degree if not fully involved. Most of the pro-Avery crowd doesn't believe anything BD says as it blows all of their alternate suspect theories out of the water.

Here's another opinion ...

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period

 

[Karinna]

Hearsay about Tadych and even if he tried to sell a .22, it means nothing. You just quoted a story above that the bullet in Avery's garage was likely fired from the gun in Avery's trailer.

There is zero evidence linking Scott Tadych to the murder of TH.

And the bullet found in the Avery garage didn't kill anyone either.
That from a forensic expert, or do we now know better than a forensic expert?
No one has any real proof TH was murdered by anyone, because none of the evidence can be trusted in this case. There are alternate answers for all those things that seem to have been planted.
There isn't even any evidence of exactly where the murder of TH happened, as in the crime scene.
Where is the other 60% of her remains and the 31 of her teeth?