Brendan Dassey: Guilty of Teresa Halbach's rape, torture, and murder?

[Karinna]

BBM - funny how after 13 years people will start to come forward; people that knew SA has been sitting in jail for 13 years. KZ must have some magic power to get them to come out of the woodwork or maybe it's for publicity. Or maybe after 13 years, they don't know what the heck they saw if anything.

Like Keith Rahmlow who approached the ghost of Andrew Colborn at the Cenex station on 11/4 while the real Andrew Colborn was off that day.

This is not the first time KZ has caught the real killer. KZ deconstructs the crime to get to the truth, and she is excellent at doing that. As some people have stated KZ would of made a terrific investigator, and i agree. IMO

 

[Sustained]

And the bullet found in the Avery garage didn't kill anyone either.
That from a forensic expert, or do we now know better than a forensic expert?
No one has any real proof TH was murdered by anyone, because none of the evidence can be trusted in this case. There are alternate answers for all those things that seem to have been planted.
There isn't even any evidence of exactly where the murder of TH happened, as in the crime scene.
Where is the other 60% of her remains and the 31 of her teeth?

BBM - according to BD, she was shot multiple times. The bullet fragment in the garage had TH's DNA on it, just no evidence of bone and it was linked to the .22 in SA's trailer. Of course that was KZ's test that confirmed no bone - 13 years after the murder. Could have been a bullet that went through TH somewhere else in her body.

And why can't the evidence be trusted ? Because MaM and KZ say so ? All of her tests were just that, tests .... tests performed under controlled circumstances.
Not the actual conditions at the time of the murder.

There are scores of murders that happen where murderers are convicted with no body and without knowing where the murder actually occurred. Don't think we're going to see a video of the murder anytime soon.

Maybe SA tried to move some of TH's bones and possible jawbone containing teeth. Who knows ?

 

[Sustained]

This is not the first time KZ has caught the real killer. KZ deconstructs the crime to get to the truth, and she is excellent at doing that. As some people have stated KZ would of made a terrific investigator, and i agree. IMO

She hasn't caught the "real killer" in this case. IMO is the real killer and is still behind bars.

IMO, KZ is a good lawyer and relies on others to do her investigative work. Apparently, she is also good at attracting publicity. Are there any appellate lawyers that lay out a case against a possible "suspect" on Twitter with zero evidence to prove it ?

 

[Karinna]

BBM - according to BD, she was shot multiple times. The bullet fragment in the garage had TH's DNA on it, just no evidence of bone and it was linked to the .22 in SA's trailer. Of course that was KZ's test that confirmed no bone - 13 years after the murder. Could have been a bullet that went through TH somewhere else in her body.

And why can't the evidence be trusted ? Because MaM and KZ say so ? All of her tests were just that, tests .... tests performed under controlled circumstances.
Not the actual conditions at the time of the murder.

There are scores of murders that happen where murderers are convicted with no body and without knowing where the murder actually occurred. Don't think we're going to see a video of the murder anytime soon.

Maybe SA tried to move some of TH's bones and possible jawbone containing teeth. Who knows ?

BBM,In analysing this crime you have to stick to the state's narrative though don't you? You believe that, so therefore TH was shot in the head, no?
Why? because BD confessed to the information he couldn't think of in interrogation and it was then fed to him by LE.
Brendan didn't know or confess to that voluntarily because he couldn't think of what LE wanted him to admit to, so they told him.

 

[Karinna]

She hasn't caught the "real killer" in this case. IMO is the real killer and is still behind bars.

IMO, KZ is a good lawyer and relies on others to do her investigative work. Apparently, she is also good at attracting publicity. Are there any appellate lawyers that lay out a case against a possible "suspect" on Twitter with zero evidence to prove it ?

Could you give any other examples of post conviction attorney's in high profile murder cases and how they handle their cases? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

 

[Sustained]

Could you give any other examples of post conviction attorney's in high profile murder cases and how they handle their cases? I would be interested to know. Thanks.

That's just it - I don't see any other examples on Twitter or any other social media sites for post conviction appeal work. Perhaps you have some comparable to what KZ is doing with her almost daily Tweets. Thanks.

 

[Karinna]

That's just it - I don't see any other examples on Twitter or any other social media sites for post conviction appeal work. Perhaps you have some comparable to what KZ is doing with her almost daily Tweets. Thanks.

I think its more a matter of the following KZ has and she is not the only attorney that tweets. Didn't Buting also do twitter, and others like Kratz etc. as well. I don't really think its a big deal and social media is a big thing nowadays. Just a sign of the times IMO.
So not really sure what you're trying to say?

 

[Sustained]

BBM,In analysing this crime you have to stick to the state's narrative though don't you? You believe that, so therefore TH was shot in the head, no?
Why? because BD confessed to the information he couldn't think of in interrogation and it was then fed to him by LE.
Brendan didn't know or confess to that voluntarily because he couldn't think of what LE wanted him to admit to, so they told him.

Sure whatever - she was shot in the head and probably other places as well. I don't think there's any point carrying on this discussion as we obviously have polar opposite views on the case. I'm 100% convinced that SA killed TH and BD participated to some degree. Nothing you can say will change that.

KZ wins either way - if she fails on appeal, supporters like you will say the Wisconsin and federal justice systems are corrupt. If she gets SA out on appeal, KZ becomes a folk hero. Either way, she gets oodles of publicity as she'll continue to Tweet as these appeals will take years.

 

[Saul Vesalot]

Everything BD said is unconfirmable as we weren't there as we either choose to use his story or we don't.

This is what evidence is for. This is what I have been saying. We do not need to choose to trust or not in a well done investigation. We can back claims up with evidence in well done investigation and interrogation.

I choose to believe him.

So when he says he was innocent you believed that? Of course not. Youre choosing to believe only the parts that back up what you want to believe. That isn't how reality works. That isn't how logic works. Or well formed arguments. Your position of "choose whatever I want and THAT is reality" is not equivalent to mine where reality is an objective thing. The investigation was fumbled, either on purpose or not, and that prevents us from discovering what the reality is. If you cannot determine what is real and what is fake, you don't get to choose whatever fits your preconcieved notions. That is utterly bonkers. It would be like saying "I don't know what is in my pants pocket, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it is millions of dollars."'
You cannot lock up a person forever based off of "Well I want him to be guilty."

I don't know how much of BD's story is true, but I choose to believe he was involved to a degree if not fully involved.

And you really think that is a good enough basis to lock someone up, much less a child? Really? Reallly?

Most of the pro-Avery crowd doesn't believe anything BD says as it blows all of their alternate suspect theories out of the water.

No. Again, it is because the police contaminated the interview, and the stuff that they didn't contaminate doesn't have evidence.

Here's another opinion ...

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period, except the parts I dismiss out of hand because I want to.

Edited to add:
WOWWWWWWW. I clicked on your "other opinion." Why am I supposed to take this guy seriously?

Clear thinking people can accept that Brendan Dassey and Stephen Avery are guilty of the brutal rape and murder of Teresa Halbach. In fact, twelve of their peers have already come to that conclusion beyond a reasonable doubt. Justice was served. End of story.

His intro is "you're stupid if you disagree with me and a jury said he was guilty and that proves he is guilty."
It's utterly asinine.

 

[Sustained]

I think its more a matter of the following KZ has and she is not the only attorney that tweets. Didn't Buting also do twitter, and others like Kratz etc. as well. I don't really think its a big deal and social media is a big thing nowadays. Just a sign of the times IMO.
So not really sure what you're trying to say?

I am trying to say KZ is a publicity hound as she didn't take the Avery case at first. Now, she's the star of MaM2 and tweets constantly, way more than Buting & Kratz do or ever did. Sign of the times ? For someone trying to get buy in on some fairy tales she's concocted - you betcha.

 

[Sustained]

This is what evidence is for. This is what I have been saying. We do not need to choose to trust or not in a well done investigation. We can back claims up with evidence in well done investigation and interrogation.


So when he says he was innocent you believed that? Of course not. Youre choosing to believe only the parts that back up what you want to believe. That isn't how reality works. That isn't how logic works. Or well formed arguments. Your position of "choose whatever I want and THAT is reality" is not equivalent to mine where reality is an objective thing. The investigation was fumbled, either on purpose or not, and that prevents us from discovering what the reality is. If you cannot determine what is real and what is fake, you don't get to choose whatever fits your preconcieved notions. That is utterly bonkers. It would be like saying "I don't know what is in my pants pocket, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it is millions of dollars."'
You cannot lock up a person forever based off of "Well I want him to be guilty."


And you really think that is a good enough basis to lock someone up, much less a child? Really? Reallly?

No. Again, it is because the police contaminated the interview, and the stuff that they didn't contaminate doesn't have evidence.

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period, except the parts I dismiss out of hand because I want to.

Edited to add:
WOWWWWWWW. I clicked on your "other opinion." Why am I supposed to take this guy seriously?

His intro is "you're stupid if you disagree with me and a jury said he was guilty and that proves he is guilty."
It's utterly asinine.

I happen to think the investigation was well done and the right people are behind bars. You weren't there and neither was I - but SA's DNA was found in the Rav4 and BD says he went with SA to move the RaV4. He also said helped kill TH and dispose of the body. You choose to discount all of his statements and confessions. I don't and most of the judges on appeal don't either. And it was reality when BD was sitting in those police interviews.

And you think I want BD to be guilty ? I would love it if there was evidence to get this kid out of jail. But after many appeals by skilled lawyers, it ain't happening.

 

[Karinna]

Even Avery's defense attorneys from the Trial agree it was Ineffective assistance of counsel. So there is that. Where were all the experts to refute the State's claims at Trial?
Don't think there were any were there?

 

[Karinna]

BBM - according to BD, she was shot multiple times. The bullet fragment in the garage had TH's DNA on it, just no evidence of bone and it was linked to the .22 in SA's trailer. Of course that was KZ's test that confirmed no bone - 13 years after the murder. Could have been a bullet that went through TH somewhere else in her body.

And why can't the evidence be trusted ? Because MaM and KZ say so ? All of her tests were just that, tests .... tests performed under controlled circumstances.
Not the actual conditions at the time of the murder.

There are scores of murders that happen where murderers are convicted with no body and without knowing where the murder actually occurred. Don't think we're going to see a video of the murder anytime soon.

Maybe SA tried to move some of TH's bones and possible jawbone containing teeth. Who knows ?

And according to BD he says that TH was stabbed and raped and she was cut inside the SA's trailer and then shot out in the garage? Brendan is confabulating.

 

[Karinna]

I am trying to say KZ is a publicity hound as she didn't take the Avery case at first. Now, she's the star of MaM2 and tweets constantly, way more than Buting & Kratz do or ever did. Sign of the times ? For someone trying to get buy in on some fairy tales she's concocted - you betcha.

Wow.

 

[Karinna]

This is what evidence is for. This is what I have been saying. We do not need to choose to trust or not in a well done investigation. We can back claims up with evidence in well done investigation and interrogation.


So when he says he was innocent you believed that? Of course not. Youre choosing to believe only the parts that back up what you want to believe. That isn't how reality works. That isn't how logic works. Or well formed arguments. Your position of "choose whatever I want and THAT is reality" is not equivalent to mine where reality is an objective thing. The investigation was fumbled, either on purpose or not, and that prevents us from discovering what the reality is. If you cannot determine what is real and what is fake, you don't get to choose whatever fits your preconcieved notions. That is utterly bonkers. It would be like saying "I don't know what is in my pants pocket, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it is millions of dollars."'
You cannot lock up a person forever based off of "Well I want him to be guilty."


And you really think that is a good enough basis to lock someone up, much less a child? Really? Reallly?

No. Again, it is because the police contaminated the interview, and the stuff that they didn't contaminate doesn't have evidence.

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period, except the parts I dismiss out of hand because I want to.

Edited to add:
WOWWWWWWW. I clicked on your "other opinion." Why am I supposed to take this guy seriously?

His intro is "you're stupid if you disagree with me and a jury said he was guilty and that proves he is guilty."
It's utterly asinine.

Agree it is asinine.

 

[Sustained]

Even Avery's defense attorneys from the Trial agree it was Ineffective assistance of counsel. So there is that. Where were all the experts to refute the State's claims at Trial?
Don't think there were any were there?

That is not what Buting/Strang said - they said that any good appellate lawyer would try and get a reversal on ineffective assistance of counsel. Not that they were ineffective.

What makes you think that KZ can refute the State's claims at trial ? If by some remote chance KZ wins an evidentiary hearing, do you not think the State will go out and get equivalent experts to counter any controlled tests she has done ?

 

[Karinna]

That is not what Buting/Strang said - they said that any good appellate lawyer would try and get a reversal on ineffective assistance of counsel. Not that they were ineffective.

What makes you think that KZ can refute the State's claims at trial ? If by some remote chance KZ wins an evidentiary hearing, do you not think the State will go out and get equivalent experts to counter any controlled tests she has done ?

I wasn't talking about KZ, LOL.

 

[Sustained]

And according to BD he says that TH was stabbed and raped and she was cut inside the SA's trailer and then shot out in the garage? Brendan is confabulating.

You are guessing and have no idea since you were not there. Brendan's confessions have now been ruled admissible by how many judges and appeals courts. Why did the Supreme Court refuse to hear the case if this is such an obvious case of a 16-year-old being strung along by investigators ?

 

[Karinna]

That is not what Buting/Strang said - they said that any good appellate lawyer would try and get a reversal on ineffective assistance of counsel. Not that they were ineffective.

What makes you think that KZ can refute the State's claims at trial ? If by some remote chance KZ wins an evidentiary hearing, do you not think the State will go out and get equivalent experts to counter any controlled tests she has done ?

BBM, No you're wrong.
(quote)
Exclusive: 'Making a Murderer' Lawyers Respond to Steven Avery's Criticism They Were Ineffective

Making a Murderer lawyers Dean Strang and Jerry Buting may no longer be representing Steven Avery in his high-profile murder case, but they tell Newsweek they are happy to have their defense in the original 2007 trial deemed ineffective if it helps Avery go free on appeal.
Exclusive: 'Making a Murderer' lawyers respond to criticism from Steven Avery

 

[Sustained]

This is what evidence is for. This is what I have been saying. We do not need to choose to trust or not in a well done investigation. We can back claims up with evidence in well done investigation and interrogation.


So when he says he was innocent you believed that? Of course not. Youre choosing to believe only the parts that back up what you want to believe. That isn't how reality works. That isn't how logic works. Or well formed arguments. Your position of "choose whatever I want and THAT is reality" is not equivalent to mine where reality is an objective thing. The investigation was fumbled, either on purpose or not, and that prevents us from discovering what the reality is. If you cannot determine what is real and what is fake, you don't get to choose whatever fits your preconcieved notions. That is utterly bonkers. It would be like saying "I don't know what is in my pants pocket, so I'm gonna go ahead and say it is millions of dollars."'
You cannot lock up a person forever based off of "Well I want him to be guilty."


And you really think that is a good enough basis to lock someone up, much less a child? Really? Reallly?

No. Again, it is because the police contaminated the interview, and the stuff that they didn't contaminate doesn't have evidence.

Brendan Dassey Told the Truth - Period, except the parts I dismiss out of hand because I want to.

Edited to add:
WOWWWWWWW. I clicked on your "other opinion." Why am I supposed to take this guy seriously?

His intro is "you're stupid if you disagree with me and a jury said he was guilty and that proves he is guilty."
It's utterly asinine.

Why am I supposed to take you seriously ? Because you believe BD's confession to be totally false ? Certainly you can prove this with evidence, right ?