CA - 14 killed in San Bernardino mass shooting, 2 Dec 2015 #1

[Bravo]

Earlier, it was reported that he rented a car at the beginning of the week. This is why I don't believe it was random. I believe he planned this, maybe even went there earlier in the day to try to plant IED's. Just a theory of mine, please don't pounce.

I agree. Facts presented indicate a plan. I wonder if something went wrong for this end result. It appears to me their plan was not fully carried out???? Yet why? IMO

 

[K_Z]

....so....is this a terrorist operation or not.....?

An AK47 is a machine gun and AR15 is not.

There are rumors around the web, based on media pics of shell casings, that they may have had 2 AK 74's. That's rather significant, and very telling, if true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-74

(Forgive me if this has been discussed upthread-- haven't read all here yet.)

I can't help but notice that the FBI has pulled back from the press conferences, and is now letting the police chief speak solely. That is also HUGE, IMO.

And no pictures officially released of the 2 dead perps? Say WHAT??

The spin on this is mind blowing, IMO.

 

[Chewy]

The fact that they left their child indicates it was a plan to me as well. The go pro cameras, the rented cars. But we've seen lots of other 'planned shootings" that weren't done for Jihadist motives. Columbine comes to mind. So does the Oklahoma City Bombing.

 

[Bravo]

Totally agree.

If you are familiar with Lord of the Rings, Tolkien describes the trek of the sociopaths to evil Mordor. Basically, he is stating that evil organizations attract these sociopathic losers who delight in the opportunity to wreak violence under the cover of a "legitimate" cause....

:welcome:

 

[Dogface]

What about it other than the religion of the people involved makes it Jihadist to you? I'm not saying it isn't. But we haven't heard anything about anything that would make it Jihadist.

His relative interviewed on the news seemed shocked. He didn't seem like a Jihadist fundamentalist?

Or is it just the religion?

The traveling overseas, returning with a wife, growing a beard and possibly wearing go pros make me think terrorist. Makes me think of the older brother in the Boston bombings. Was completely normal for the most part, travelled and became radicalized, and then planned an attack.

However, if the getting angry at the party and returning is true, that doesn't fit the profile. Perhaps it was planned ahead of time and he was simply on edge knowing what he was about to do.

 

[Chewy]

Well lots of men grow beards but I can see the point of a change in behavior after a trip to Saudi. I also think the fact that his wife was willing to orphan her own child seems very strange and could be a fanatical mindset. (although who does this kind of thing that is not fanatical in one way or another.)

The pipe bombs needed assembly so that shows preparation. Perhaps they were planning an attack elsewhere and then something happened and he said **** it, I'll do it here.

But I do hope people don't insist on painting this as a terrorist Jihadist attack simply because the guy is Muslim. Muslim's make up 1/4th of the Worlds population. The vast majority of them don't do these kinds of things.

 

[Sonya610]

There are rumors around the web, based on media pics of shell casings, that they may have had 2 AK 74's. That's rather significant, and very telling, if true.

Why is it telling? Because those models are favored overseas? Grant it an American would be far far more likely to choose an AR than an AK, so they may have had foreign training.

If they were purchased legally in the US then that model would only be semi-auto according to what I have read, not full auto as mentioned by another poster. http://www.diffen.com/difference/AK-47_vs_AK-74

 

[Colin de France]

Three explosive devices — thought to be real and all connected to one another — were found at the social service center and later detonated by a bomb squad, police said.

....does anyone need any more evidence to link this to a terrorist attack ......why are we being made to wait for an official declaration ....politics...?

 

[Dogface]

Well lots of men grow beards but I can see the point of a change in behavior after a trip to Saudi. I also think the fact that his wife was willing to orphan her own child seems very strange and could be a fanatical mindset. (although who does this kind of thing that is not fanatical in one way or another.)

The pipe bombs needed assembly so that shows preparation. Perhaps they were planning an attack elsewhere and then something happened and he said **** it, I'll do it here.

But I do hope people don't insist on painting this as a terrorist Jihadist attack simply because the guy is Muslim. Muslim's make up 1/4th of the Worlds population. The vast majority of them don't do these kinds of things.

I'm on the fence still and will wait until all facts are confirmed, and I hope others do too. But yes, the changes after the trip are what has me leaning towards it at the moment.

Just such a sad world we live in when you can shoot people who helped you celebrate the birth of your child in cold blood. It's sick anyone can kill anyone in such a cold blooded manner, but that just stuck out to me as being especially twisted.

Were the pipe bombs functional? I thought I read the one from the car was a pipe that had a cloth stuck in it. It's early, and I just left the gym, so I may not be thinking/remembering clearly.

 

[Hatfield]

JMO
I agree that this is looking more and more like a well planned terrorist attack.

And I don't think he had any argument at all with anyone. I have seen multiple reports saying he just left mad. To me, that means he got himself worked up for the twisted deed and left the party to go get prepared.

He may have seemed mad or upset to others who witnessed him getting up and leaving and I think that is where the initial reports began to say he was upset about something.

Someone may have asked him where he was going and he probably didn't answer back and the person probably thought he was upset about something.
Nobody has come forward to say they argued with him at all.

This is becoming very obvious to me what has just happened.

-Travels abroad
-Within 1 month comes back with a sympathizer from Pakistani descent
-Assault type rifles, magazines, vests, masks, pipe bombs
-Go-Pro cameras to sickly film the carnage to send back to someone for propaganda purposes
-Shooting and throwing bombs out the window at police as they chase them
-Neighbor reported to have seen suspicious foreign people in the last month coming and going near his home and she almost called police but did not because she was afraid she was overreacting to the foreigners. A reporter last night on the news talked about this neighbor.

Its all way too obvious now what this is.

 

[Chewy]

This was not about spreading any religious beliefs, IMO. It was about killing people. Lot of people. Killing easy targets, in a building he apparently knew very well..

Yep, just like Columbine and Oklahoma City and the Unibomber and Jared Loughner and Elliot Rodgers and so on.


There's a lot of crazy people who shoot up places, but we don't automatically assume it was Jihad or decide the person was a Christian Fundamentalist Nut Job (like the guy who shot up the Planned Parenthood Clinic last week) until we see EVIDENCE that shows that. We don't just springboard it off their religious beliefs.

 

[Chewy]

JMO
I agree that this is looking more and more like a well planned terrorist attack.

And I don't think he had any argument at all with anyone. I have seen multiple reports saying he just left mad. To me, that means he got himself worked up for the twisted deed and left the party to go get prepared.

He may have seemed mad or upset to others who witnessed him getting up and leaving and I think that is where the initial reports began to say he was upset about something.

Someone may have asked him where he was going and he probably didn't answer back and the person probably thought he was upset about something.
Nobody has come forward to say they argued with him at all.

This is becoming very obvious to me what has just happened.

-Travels abroad
-Within 1 month comes back with a sympathizer from Pakistani descent
-Assault type rifles, magazines, vests, masks, pipe bombs
-Go-Pro cameras to sickly film the carnage to send back to someone for propaganda purposes
-Shooting and throwing bombs out the window at police as they chase them
-Neighbor reported to have seen suspicious foreign people in the last month coming and going near his home and she almost called police but did not because she was afraid she was overreacting to the foreigners. A reporter last night on the news talked about this neighbor.

Its all way too obvious now what this is.

<modsnip> But in general I think we need more evidence before saying it's a terrorist Jihad attack. It could very well be one. I just don't understand the mindset of presuming something to be true without all the evidence.

If you have evidence that would be great to look at. I didn't know that the Pakistani descent friend was a Jihad sympathizer. Do you have information on that to read?

Again, I'm not saying it isn't this, but the reasoning seems racist to me. I'm more convinced based on her orphaning her child and them having prepared pipe bombs. Not because of their race or religion.

 

[Sonya610]

Its all way too obvious now what this is.

Sadly some will have an agenda to ignore the obvious, even worse our own government may share that agenda.

We will just have to wait for the official "version of the story".

 

[Elley Mae]

Co-worker Patrick Baccari told The Associated Press that Farook, who was born in the United States, traveled to Saudi Arabia earlier this year and returned with a wife

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...er-reported-san-bernardino-20-victims/?page=2

The woman he described as a pharmacist joined him in the U.S. shortly afterward, and they soon had a baby. Police described Malik as Farook&#8217;s wife or fiancee, AP reported.

....................

He may also have traveled to Saudia Arabia, in a pilgrimage to Mecca.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/f...-farook-very-religious-muslim/article/2577516

..................................

He had been married to Ms. Malik for two years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/us/san-bernardino-shooting-syed-rizwan-farook.html

bbm Which is it?

 

[Elley Mae]

Yep, just like Columbine and Oklahoma City and the Unibomber and Jared Loughner and Elliot Rodgers and so on.


There's a lot of crazy people who shoot up places, but we don't automatically assume it was Jihad or decide the person was a Christian Fundamentalist Nut Job (like the guy who shot up the Planned Parenthood Clinic last week) until we see EVIDENCE that shows that. We don't just springboard it off their religious beliefs.

bbm Honestly I don't see where anyone of these I bolded having anything to do with each other, they all have different motives.

 

[K_Z]

Why is it telling? Because those models are favored overseas? Grant it an American would be far far more likely to choose an AR than an AK, so they may have had foreign training.

If they were purchased legally in the US then that model would only be semi-auto according to what I have read, not full auto as mentioned by another poster. http://www.diffen.com/difference/AK-47_vs_AK-74

I'm sure the FBI has the weapons now. Question is, will they tell the public what they are? Time will tell.

And I highly doubt they were purchased legally. JMO.

 

[Elley Mae]

I wonder what the fbi uses as a criteria to distinguish terrorism versus mass killing.

 

[janiceg]

When people who are Muslim create pipe bombs, wear quasi military clothing, go-cameras, and shoot people with AK rifles, using a rented car, after traveling to Saudi Arabia, engage in a shoot-out with police and ISIS websites are applauding their behavior, it is reasonable to assume that this is a terrorist act.

Read the Quran. It mandates the killing and beheading of the people of the book, i.e Christians and Jews, and the enslavement and defilement of infidels. It also countenances lying to the infidels (i.e. non-muslims).

 

[Colin de France]

When people who are Muslim create pipe bombs, wear quasi military clothing, go-cameras, and shoot people with AK rifles, using a rented car, after traveling to Saudi Arabia, engage in a shoot-out with police and ISIS websites are applauding their behavior, it is reasonable to assume that this is a terrorist act.

Read the Quran. It mandates the killing and beheading of the people of the book, i.e Christians and Jews, and the enslavement and defilement of infidels. It also countenances lying to the infidels (i.e. non-muslims).

....i find it disturbing that this attack has not been officially declared as terrorist.....not good for confidence...

 

[janiceg]

IMO, he went to party to check out site and/or to plant bombs. He was reported as nervous and irritable at the party. After he checked out the site and/or planted bombs, he went home, picked up his wife and proceeded with his plan. IMO, this was planned. Dropped off child with mother in law, had the pipe bombs and other incendiary devices ready, go-cameras ready to go, and AK's and bullets.

I think I read somewhere that the shooters reloaded after initial shootings, while the victims were shaking in fear. This sounds like cold-blooded terrorist act.