CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[Oriah]

If something had been placed in the dog's way, in a place it wanted to go to, would it indicate that to the trainer?

Not sure what you mean by something placed in the way?

If you mean do physical obstructions cause a working K9 to look over their shoulder and say to their handler, "Really???" then yes, lol.

If they are working a specific scent then they should- and usually do- alert. Because they need extra hands to help them access the more dense source of the scent.

 

[zwiebel]

Not sure what you mean by something placed in the way?

If you mean do physical obstructions cause a working K9 to look over their shoulder and say to their handler, "Really???" then yes, lol.

If they are working a specific scent then they should- and usually do- alert. Because they need extra hands to help them access the more dense source of the scent.

Yes, I did mean a physical obstruction - something like clutter that might prevent a door being opened, for example.
Glad to hear K9s wouldn't let that stop them - and I love your description of how they'd react, by the way! My dog would just look really sad until I lifted him over....but he has a bad leg, so he's excused.

 

[zwiebel]

Back to the dogs again for a minute, the K9 dogs. I want so badly for them to check the entrances other than the front door for cadaver scent. Particularly the back and side door that was left unlocked to the garage. I don't care about what kind of clutter was usually there blocking the side door to the garage. With 48+ hours between the time of Mr. Harrod's disappearance there was plenty of time to move clutter and clear a path to that door and then move whatever clutter back to again block that door.

I'm talking about the one AH found unlocked when on the well being check with LE.

Just bumping Cubby's post because it is so relevant here.

ETA: Of course, it may have been called clutter by some at the time, but I bet during that inventory list visit, it all became lent stuff that was reclaimed. Probably not a bit of clutter left there now to worry about.

 

[zwiebel]

I am reading through the legal docs again and making myself ill (maybe I should have worn some garlic protection), and have to say this again as I don't think it can be said enough - within 72 hours of Bob's disappearance, Bob's daughters retained an attorney who tried to order Fontelle out of her marital home, and they used Bob's bank account to file a petition to be declared conservators of his estate.
Fontelle's attorney said Bob had been tormented. Tormented. Poor Bob. Poor Fontelle. Hope she keeps plenty of garlic around too.

 

[Cubby]

Someone brought up a wrongful death lawsuit-given the ex parte we have posted in the doc thread, I would think that this is a given. It pretty much lays out what Mrs Harrod believes might have happened to her husband and possibly gives us a peek inside the police investigation. Those are strong words-fightin words actually. There is little chance they have no foundation, imvho.

I'm not sure it's still possible. The statute of limitations on wrongful death lawsuits in CA is 2 years.

I think an attorney would have to tell us if the two years started when Bob disappeared, or is yet to start and starts upon his being declared deceased.

The statute thus means that an individual has only two years in which to file a lawsuit for their damages resulting from a personal injury or wrongful death.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

 

[zwiebel]

December 2010 they were trying to 'inventory' the garage. Told you all that 'clutter' would have been claimed!

 

[Cubby]

I should have been more clear on that last post. There is not a lot of evidence of success in dog dropping re: vehicles, and specifically with no other evidence involved. But when you have a semi-decent trail using evidence already known...there is a lot of success, imo.
Maybe another verified SAR professional could weigh in?

It seems somewhat simple to me that since we have a last seen location, perhaps some cleaning attempts after that- and then nothing after that- that a forensic K9 might be very helpful!

Kind of OT maybe. In Bianca Jones case, prosecutors presented evidence at trial that the cadaver dog detected the perp's vehicle while it was in an impound lot. It was one of 30, iirc, cars in the lot and dog when straight to the perps car.

It would really be nice to have these dogs search more than just the home.

 

[zwiebel]

I'm not sure it's still possible. The statute of limitations on wrongful death lawsuits in CA is 2 years.

I think an attorney would have to tell us if the two years started when Bob disappeared, or is yet to start and starts upon his being declared deceased.

The statute thus means that an individual has only two years in which to file a lawsuit for their damages resulting from a personal injury or wrongful death.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

'The statute of limitations is also different for cases involving......fraud and the many other non-tort areas of law, such as in........criminal cases.'

 

[Cubby]

'The statute of limitations is also different for cases involving......fraud and the many other non-tort areas of law, such as in........criminal cases.'

If you look at the link, you'll see that two years is specific to the statute of limitations for wrongful death lawsuits in California. I just didn't copy enough of the info from the link to make it more clear.

ETA: From the same link:

335.1. Within two years: An action for assault, battery, or injury to, or for the death of, an individual caused by the wrongful act or neglect of another.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

 

[zwiebel]

If you look at the link, you'll see that two years is specific to the statute of limitations for wrongful death lawsuits in California. I just didn't copy enough of the info from the link to make it more clear.

I'm confused about wrongful death. Is it criminal, I mean, can a person be charged with wrongful death?

 

[Cubby]

IANAL. A wrongful death lawsuit is a civil case. A civil wrongful death lawsuit can be brought against someone even if they have not been convicted criminally.

I'm going to guess the two years starts when Bob is declared deceased, because how could one file a lawsuit if the person is not yet known to be deceased? Though again, IANAL so we'd really need a lawyer to explain this further.

ETA: The burden of proof in a civil case is lower than in a criminal case, though again, IANAL so this is just laymans info.

 

[Cubby]

>respectfully snipped
Hugs to you zwiebel, remember that you are doing something good. Justice for Bob and answers for Fontelle. I wonder what your "guest" would say about me...genealogy & the hunt for elusive docs and deceased folk is my strong point. :what:
It is about Bob http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video?id=8228833

I'm going to add the above link to the msm thread per Sparkyswife's request.

 

[zwiebel]

IANAL. A wrongful death lawsuit is a civil case. A civil wrongful death lawsuit can be brought against someone even if they have not been convicted criminally.

I'm going to guess the two years starts when Bob is declared deceased, because how could one file a lawsuit if the person is not yet known to be deceased? Tough again, IANAL so we'd really need a lawyer to explain this further.

Ah, would that be what the parents of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman(may have name wrong) filed against OJ?

 

[zwiebel]

Thinking about it, weren't the family of Kathleen Savio bringing an action against Drew Peterson, on behalf of her then minor son, before Dreadful Drew was convicted (the child withdrew from the petition after attaining majority)? That may have been a wrongful death suit, and Kathleen had been dead seven years. Suppose the laws are probably different there though.

 

[Cubby]

Ah, would that be what the parents of Nicole Simpson and Ronald Goldman(may have name wrong) filed against OJ?

Yes. Though, I didn't follow the civil case much. And yes, with Kathleen Savio's case. Each state has different laws. California law would be different than Illinois law.... so the number of years for the statute of limitations could differ.

There is no statute of limitation on murder, so criminally, if it is determined Bob was murdered someone could be charged at any time.

Illinois just convicted the person responsible for murdering Maria Ridulph back in 1957.

SOLVED IL - Maria Ridulph, 7, Sycamore, 3 Dec 1957 *ARREST!* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Always nice to see those cold cases solved and to let the perps know, even if a half century goes by that doesn't mean you're off scott free.

 

[Cubby]

My apologies, :blushing: I should have added the link to the MSM thread for Bob.

Here it is:

CA CA - Bob Harrod, Time Line and Media Links only - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[zwiebel]

I followed that link to the Maria Ridulph case. Amazing that her killer was caught after 50 years. The mother of the suspect lied for him, and when she died in 1994 was still so wracked with guilt she made a deathbed confession.
I hope we don't have to wait that long in Bob's case but..it's good to know whoever did this to Bob cannot rest easy. Ever. Especially if someone else shares knowledge of the crime.

 

[believe09]

I'm not sure it's still possible. The statute of limitations on wrongful death lawsuits in CA is 2 years.

I think an attorney would have to tell us if the two years started when Bob disappeared, or is yet to start and starts upon his being declared deceased.

The statute thus means that an individual has only two years in which to file a lawsuit for their damages resulting from a personal injury or wrongful death.

http://blog.sebastiangibsonlaw.com/...-procedure-section-335-1-explained-by-lawyer/

Great observation. I am pretty sure it is dod, so once Bob is declared deceased, the action can move forward. Quite a bit of time passed, IIRC, between the criminal trial and the civil action in the Simpson case. Most of the time, a civil action holds off until a criminal one is completed...but I dont know for sure. Perhaps Gitana1 can weigh in here?

 

[zwiebel]

It's really hard because I've been going back through our legal docs again ( I don't know why I keep doing it, maybe to keep warm now it's winter, as I definitely overheat reading them).
Anyway, just read THAT list again, and there we were talking about garlic and its properties, and there's two matching mirrors on the list, claimed from Bob's house by JeM and Jum.

Oh, the comments I could make. Have written 3 posts already and then decided I'd better not. Sooooo tempting though.

 

[Cubby]

Great observation. I am pretty sure it is dod, so once Bob is declared deceased, the action can move forward. Quite a bit of time passed, IIRC, between the criminal trial and the civil action in the Simpson case. Most of the time, a civil action holds off until a criminal one is completed...but I dont know for sure. Perhaps Gitana1 can weigh in here?

A quick google search indicates there wasn't much time between the criminal and civil suits in the Simpson case. The murders occured in June of 1994 and by sometime in 1997 the civil wrongful death suit had been won. It was in 2008 the civil wrongful death suit was upheld. Not sure if you are recalling the 97 or 2008 civil case info.... my quick source was wiki, but I'm sure the data is close enough for a general idea.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O._J._Simpson_murder_case

I don't know that the Simpson case is a fair comparison here. There was no delay in Nicole's case with having her declared deceased and a lengthy period of time in which she was missing.

Perhaps a case more similiar to Bob's in which a no body civil case was awarded for a wrongful death case? None come to mind off the top of my head and admittedly, I haven't searched for any as of yet. Any other WS'rs incl. gitana1 know of any civil wrongful death cases in which the MP has been declared deceased but never found? In the event Bob is declared deceased while still missing.