CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[GrainneDhu]

GrainneDhu, I recall reading something about a murderer's triangle (in geographical terms). Do you know anything about that?

I'm not sure.

It may refer to the fact that if two acts can b tied to the murderer, they can be used to get a rough approximation of where the murderer lives.

In the Jessica Ridgeway case, the perp lived quite close to Jessica. He dumped her backpack at the next town over (which is geographically separated by a ridge) and some of her remains in an open space in yet another town. If you look at the locations on a map, they form a rough triangle.

According to a local I talked to, the triangle is better if you look at it in terms of driving time rather than actual mileage. It's almost an equilateral triangle in terms of driving time.

But if that isn't what the murderer's triangle is, then I'm outta ideas.

 

[GrainneDhu]

Using this post as a spring board......

Hypothetically considering AH, and JeM as the primary's here we should review their address history down in the sar thread and take a look for possible locations with all of their address history. Going back to the time JeM moved to CA.

Cubby, you are a genius. A genius.

Didn't Bob and Georgia live somewhere else until the early 2000s, when they moved to Placentia? And at that time, JeM and JuM also lived there (this was before they moved up the hill).

 

[GrainneDhu]

I think that too GrainneDhu. Poor Bob.

I feel horribly sorry for Fontelle. She was only a few years younger than Bob and she had found her long lost love. In one of the interviews she said something along the lines of "I thought we would have at least a couple years together" and that brought tears to my eyes.

I wonder, though. I think that this was an act that had been contemplated for some time but was actually done in haste because the perp was afraid of what Bob might do with his money or discover what had been done with either his money or his name.

I'm sure the perp never expected that Fontelle would be as tough minded as she is beautiful.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I looked up self-comforting behaviour and there's a lot out there about children. When applied to adults there seems to be a wide range encompassing everything from eating disorders, obsessive behaviour and self-medication with drugs or alcohol, to taking up yoga and alternative therapies/beliefs.

Smoking isn't mentioned. Or cuddling pets, surprisingly. That's what I always do. Very soothing. Unless they bite you or have rolled in something horrible, of course.

I suppose obvious signs might be noticed by outsiders, medical professionals etc, but for the subtle signs it would be up to those closest to notice and then - most importantly - recognise them.

I read an article recently about the East Coast Rapist, a guy who started a rape spree perhaps as early as 1992 or 1993 and continued it until he was caught in 2009. He has been linked via DNA to 13 different attacks (on at least two occasions, he attacked more than one victim at a time).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...cdbd1e-d87a-11e1-91e1-eed6436f6d13_story.html

In that article the suspect, Aaron Thomas, had this to say about the day he was arrested for the rapes:

The next day, as Thomas stepped off a bus near his house, law enforcement officers swarmed him. He knew immediately what was going on. He asked them: “What took you guys so long to get me?”

Thomas recounted the moment almost wistfully. It was the first time he could shed his facade and come clean.

“It was a relief,” Thomas said, adding that he wanted to be caught, to be stopped. “There was something in my stomach. Something was choking me forever.”

That sense of relief really struck me. The suspect admitted to police and the reporter that he had committed so many rapes he couldn't remember all of them and he clearly realised he was about to be arrested on charges that will probably lead to life in prison but the burden of knowing he had committed the crimes was heavy. Over the years, he started to confess to his mother and to both of his ex-wives (they corroborated this) but just could not say the words.

And that was even before he had a moment of what I would call clarity during one of the pre-trial hearings where he had to sit and listen to three of his victims give evidence against him (it was a hearing to determine if there was enough evidence to move to trial). As he listened to them, he realised that they weren't just objects and that what he had done had profoundly harmed other human beings.

Over the years, even as he was continuing to rape women, he really struggled with his crimes and his sense of guilt.

 

[GrainneDhu]

I always wonder if they all sleep with one eye open, knowing they could be the next person to finance anothers lifestyle. Or someone decides to reduce the slices in the pie, or make them the fall guy...IYKWIM.

I have a question. If someone takes a life insurance policy out on you, without you knowing it, how would you know?

You wouldn't. But the person whose life is being insured is supposed to sign the policy in the presence of the agent.

So in order to do such a thing, the first task would be to find an agent who is willing to break the rules. I'm not quite sure how one would go about doing such a thing because it would seem so suspicious to be trying to get various agents to issue a policy without the presence of the person being insured. If that person later disappeared or if the person who was asking such questions was connected to a disappeared person... well, I think that would peg out the hinky meter.

 

[zwiebel]

That was an amazing article, GrainneDhu. The insights into the man who committed the crimes and those close to him who sensed something was wrong........The number of people living with the consequences of what he did must be so huge.

That is the kind of article I would dream about seeing written on Bob's behalf.

 

[Cubby]

Cubby, you are a genius. A genius.

Didn't Bob and Georgia live somewhere else until the early 2000s, when they moved to Placentia? And at that time, JeM and JuM also lived there (this was before they moved up the hill).

Thank you, Grainne', but this is a group effort. It's all of our combined idea's which lead to more brainstorming of idea's to bring Bob home and see that he get's the justice he so deserves.

Yes, prior to living in Placentia, Bob and his first wife lived in Monrovia, CA. At the time he purchased the home in Placentia daughter JuM and sil JeM lived next door.

hth

 

[zwiebel]

There was something I had been about to ask earlier, about the cheek swabs for the NAMUS file. Exactly how are they done? By the person volunteering and just sending off the sample by mail? Or does an official have to be present when the sample is taken?

 

[Cubby]

An official is present for the cheek swabs zwiebel. Protocal for the chain of custody has to be met in the case of missing persons.

hth

 

[zwiebel]

While we're on the subject of protocols and procedures, there was something else I wanted to raise. In all the articles and comments gathered here over the years, I cannot find a single one from JeM. Maybe cloudajo or Angelo can set me right here if I'm wrong, please!

In fact, in the newspaper articles all I saw was one '(JuM and )JeM' declined to comment. *I would have felt sure more of those papers would have asked for a comment, but I can't even find anymore 'declineds'.

Surely he must have said something, sometime? I know Bob's neighour said he thought maybe the family became tired of the media attention, but all the daughters and even the grandson have spoken in one form or another. I understand being silent if you thought suspicion was being cast on you, but at first no-one seemed to even suspect foul play, so I would have expected an early attempt to help the search, at least. I just really, really cannot think of any reason - good or bad - why he wouldn't have made some attempt to help, at least at first. Unless he had fallen out with Bob or didn't much like him, and then why would he have been at the house helping?

None of it makes any sense to me. Everyone must have made a statement to LE, right? You couldn't just shut yourself away in a situation like that and refuse to speak, even if you wanted to? So if he had made a statement, why wouldn't he have just made a few public comments, if only to avoid his behaviour looking strange? I just cannot understand why all the daughters have been out front in this case, deflecting flack, and he has been able to stay invisible.

 

[zwiebel]

I've been back in early threads again, searching for all mentions of wallets. Nothing to be learned there - it seems that has been one of the few consistent things in this case. The wallet was always reported missing from the beginning, and unless LE has found it and isn't telling anyone, it still is.

There was no search with scent dogs either, which seems a great pity. *Puzzling too. I presume LE just thought, Bob didn't walk, so there's no point? I take it PPD would have Sar dogs available to them?

 

[Oriah]

I've been back in early threads again, searching for all mentions of wallets. Nothing to be learned there - it seems that has been one of the few consistent things in this case. The wallet was always reported missing from the beginning, and unless LE has found it and isn't telling anyone, it still is.

There was no search with scent dogs either, which seems a great pity. *Puzzling too. I presume LE just thought, Bob didn't walk, so there's no point? I take it PPD would have Sar dogs available to them?[/quote]

BBM: I am sure they had K9's available, but often SAR K9's are not utilized in a timely fashion. Very unfortunate, but it happens all the time- for various different reasons.

The good news is that it's never too late for a dog trained in forensics!

 

[zwiebel]

Another thing I noticed that seems quite important now. Dreamweaver had noticed a comment by Watchfulneighbour under an OC article about Bob. It can't be by PE, as he'd moved. In restrospect, they did seem to have almost insider knowledge though. Luckily we have the transcript as the comment's vanished from the link now.

*It's on thread 1, p6, post 132.

Watchfulneighboursaid "I am a very concerned neighbour of Robert Harrod......witnessed many strangers...out of concern we have photographed these happenings.......screaming and cussing .....Is he being held prisoner in his home by these strangers? I am very concerned and suspicious."

A black vehicle was also mentioned. This was after Bob disappeared and they've obviously mistaken Bob's wife for a stranger, but they must have lived so close to see and hear all that.

That means that person would have been in a prime position to have seen anything the day Bob disappeared too. Not being rude, but that kind of inquisitive neighbour is usually like that all the time.

They must have gone to LE with their concerns and suspicions, especially as they thought Bob might be in danger. But, just in the unlikely case they didn't, perhaps it is not too late for LE to find them now, with Bob's case appearing to cool a little?

If there was any doubt, the urgency of the danger was stressed by ShowMe in a post below this, who was not a verified insider but seemed very knowledgeable about the case too and repeated, 'Is Mr H being held in his own home?"

ShowMe also asked about Fontelle, 'Is she no longer concerned about her own safety...?'

I'm hysterical and would have interpreted that the wrong way, especially as another poster suggested they would leave the turmoil,but luckily Fontelle has more sense than me. She stayed put, and probably took it as a warning to make sure she protected herself.

Please look back if you can, it is really interesting.

 

[zwiebel]

Forgot to mention, this was only about four months after Bob vanished, but a disheartened poster on that thread,- think it was ShowMe again - was asking 'is LE still investigating or has this become a cold case?'

If only they could have spotted the tenacity of the posters on the page with them, who are mostly all still here, years later. They would have been able to reassure themselves Bob's case will always be remembered somewhere.

 

[Angelo]

While we're on the subject of protocols and procedures, there was something else I wanted to raise. In all the articles and comments gathered here over the years, I cannot find a single one from JeM. Maybe cloudajo or Angelo can set me right here if I'm wrong, please!

In fact, in the newspaper articles all I saw was one '(JuM and )JeM' declined to comment. *I would have felt sure more of those papers would have asked for a comment, but I can't even find anymore 'declineds'.

Surely he must have said something, sometime? I know Bob's neighour said he thought maybe the family became tired of the media attention, but all the daughters and even the grandson have spoken in one form or another. I understand being silent if you thought suspicion was being cast on you, but at first no-one seemed to even suspect foul play, so I would have expected an early attempt to help the search, at least. I just really, really cannot think of any reason - good or bad - why he wouldn't have made some attempt to help, at least at first. Unless he had fallen out with Bob or didn't much like him, and then why would he have been at the house helping?

None of it makes any sense to me. Everyone must have made a statement to LE, right? You couldn't just shut yourself away in a situation like that and refuse to speak, even if you wanted to? So if he had made a statement, why wouldn't he have just made a few public comments, if only to avoid his behaviour looking strange? I just cannot understand why all the daughters have been out front in this case, deflecting flack, and he has been able to stay invisible.

We have never heard from JeM. In fact JeM did not even accompany his JuM to her father's house the day after Mr. Harrod disappeared. If he had he could have provided an exact time when his wife was being interviewed and gave the "were thinking 1 or noon" time for Mr. Harrod's disappearance. To my knowledge JeM has never returned to Mr. Harrod's house.

 

[zwiebel]

Well, it just seems really strange to me that three women have been left to do all the talking for the man who could have cleared up so many questions years ago. Why would he let them go through that?

 

[Angelo]

Another thing I noticed that seems quite important now. Dreamweaver had noticed a comment by Watchfulneighbour under an OC article about Bob. It can't be by PE, as he'd moved. In restrospect, they did seem to have almost insider knowledge though. Luckily we have the transcript as the comment's vanished from the link now.

*It's on thread 1, p6, post 132.

Watchfulneighboursaid "I am a very concerned neighbour of Robert Harrod......witnessed many strangers...out of concern we have photographed these happenings.......screaming and cussing .....Is he being held prisoner in his home by these strangers? I am very concerned and suspicious."

A black vehicle was also mentioned. This was after Bob disappeared and they've obviously mistaken Bob's wife for a stranger, but they must have lived so close to see and hear all that.

That means that person would have been in a prime position to have seen anything the day Bob disappeared too. Not being rude, but that kind of inquisitive neighbour is usually like that all the time.

They must have gone to LE with their concerns and suspicions, especially as they thought Bob might be in danger. But, just in the unlikely case they didn't, perhaps it is not too late for LE to find them now, with Bob's case appearing to cool a little?

If there was any doubt, the urgency of the danger was stressed by ShowMe in a post below this, who was not a verified insider but seemed very knowledgeable about the case too and repeated, 'Is Mr H being held in his own home?"

ShowMe also asked about Fontelle, 'Is she no longer concerned about her own safety...?'

I'm hysterical and would have interpreted that the wrong way, especially as another poster suggested they would leave the turmoil,but luckily Fontelle has more sense than me. She stayed put, and probably took it as a warning to make sure she protected herself.

Please look back if you can, it is really interesting.

Dreamweaver's post 11/5/2012

OC Register article: Interesting comment.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/h...telle-michaels
Comments section:
'snipped'
watchfulneighbor wrote:
I am a very concerned neighbor of Robert Harrod. Prior to his disappearance there was a younger woman that was frequently parked in his driveway a Black Tahoe (I believe). Within recent days we have walked the neighborhood and have witnessed many strangers staying at Robert's home; throwing property away in the trash; why would strangers do this? Out of concern we have photographed these happenings, such as Robert's car not seen in the driveway and of this woman's vehicle parked at his residence. Then we saw the Black vehicle again in the driveway the younger woman Robert was seeing. Unfortunately I need to speak up now on Robert's behalf as I have overheard in the past months prior to Robert missing and the week of Robert's recent marriage during our walks in the neighborhood. The woman that drives this vehicle has a temper we have heard her screaming and cussing at Robert H. on several occasions. Why would this person be allowed back into Robert's residence? Are the Placentia Police Department doing welfare checks to see if Robert has returned? Is he held prisoner in his home by these strangers? Why is Robert's wife of 8 days still residing in his families home. Where are his daughters? Why are they not checking in at his home? Is there a side to this story that the public is not informed about? Why would the young woman that had a relationship with Robert return to visit his wife. I am very concerned and suspicious. Please if Robert is being held in his home, allow him to see his family and come out publicly.
11/3/2009 3:10:59 PM

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #1



ShowMe's post 11/6/2009

Wow, why would a new wife ever want to befriend a previous girlfriend (the barber lady)? Ms. H, who made the initial missing person report, should have expressed her suspicions in that report, and as a participant at the in-home reporting of a financial elder abuse report after his disappearance. I recall reading that and also about an expressed fear of Bob's younger girlfriend as a reason for rushed marriage before the trip back to her home. Is she no longer concerned about her own safety? Was this all an act, or part of a plan? All neighbors should have already been questioned and reporting to the police their own observations both before and after Mr. H's disappearance. Possible added motive and/or conspiracy are only now surfacing though it may never be known.

Based upon reading between the lines about how Mr. H and his deceased wife made all their money together, I'm sure Mr. H and his deceased wife were very conscientious and meticulous about their taxes and money. Why would house guests be throwing family belongings out as trash. IRS ignorant guests would be an ill-fitted match for any money-wise man. Are they assuming Mr. H is dead. Is Mr. H being held in his own home? It's doubtful but, anything is possible. Perhaps Mr. H will return and disapprovingly observe for himself what has been happening at his home.

This story is such a sad and weird mystery. I hope, for everyone concerned, it is solved soon.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #1

 

[zwiebel]

Thank you so much doing that, Angelo. The only thing good about these tablet computers is they're small and pretty unbreakable. They don't seem able to do anything else though, except stars where I don't want them!

 

[zwiebel]

Just to clarify for myself; the 'young woman', 'the barber' lady - she was the friend of Bob's who was ruled out as a suspect very early in the investigation. The same young woman later taken to court by Bob's daughters to try and gain the cash gifts he'd given her?

And they totally lost the case and had to pay costs? Please correct me if I'm wrong, someone.

Am still wondering why that suspicious black car JeM saw the day Bob vanished never featured on any of the missing posters and files. Or the facebook page. Or why JeM hasn't come out to tell potential witnesses all about it and urge them to come forward and corroborate the story. Watchfulneighbour might even speak up.

 

[believe09]

Just to clarify for myself; the 'young woman', 'the barber' lady - she was the friend of Bob's who was ruled out as a suspect very early in the investigation. The same young woman later taken to court by Bob's daughters to try and gain the cash gifts he'd given her?

And they totally lost the case and had to pay costs? Please correct me if I'm wrong, someone.

Am still wondering why that suspicious black car JeM saw the day Bob vanished never featured on any of the missing posters and files. Or the facebook page. Or why JeM hasn't come out to tell potential witnesses all about it and urge them to come forward and corroborate the story. Watchfulneighbour might even speak up.

Because the black SUV never existed imo. It drove back and forth on the wrong side of the street for 10 minutes? 10 minutes is a long time. Uh, wouldnt you have written down a lic number, approached the vehicle and asked if you could help?

Ridiculous.