CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

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  • #661
Wondering here what Disappeared will show when it comes to statements...like who gave them, who didnt. Who might have taken a poly, who didnt.

That could be so enlightening.
I haven't got time so I'm not going to do it, but I'd love to go through all our solved cases on WS and see how many people associated with them were known to have refused polys during the investigations, and what happened to them in the end.
 
  • #662
Sorry Cubby, I wasn't clear. I was trying to form a plan in my head and posted about it before it had taken shape, really.

It's ambitious, but I was thinking it would be so good to organise some yearly satellite maps and charts for those great guys in the SAR thread. Fires, water levels and weather conditions, starting the day Bob disappeared and going up to the present. Just for our approximate area of interest, so we're going to have to come to a concensus on that.
Then collect the information.
Then get input from locals who can point out anything useful they have seen or know about.
Then present it in a really nice way, maybe with satellite maps that can be overlaid with fire/flood patterns etc, year by year.
Then hand it over to our SAR experts, because this is what they're talking about down there, so I'm presuming they'd know what to do with it!

I am sure all the records are out there somewhere. And I think the charts and things could be arranged from my end, will let you know.

What does everybody think?

It's actually not that ambitious at all, lol. Just very useful info from a SAR standpoint, and almost always paid attention to by SAR. And mostly already compiled in Mr. Harrod's case! Gotta love databases!

Of course, more information is never a bad thing. :)
 
  • #663
Oh, that's really funny! I should have tried consulting with the professionals first, before twisting myself in knots coming up with a grand plan. I'm still going to collect all the info I can though, and try and make nice charts and lists. I also think any input from locals will be so much help, even if they think it's something everyone would already know. Hidden gems and all that....
I do like your optimism and energy Oriah - a properly positive person!
 
  • #664
Oh, that's really funny! I should have tried consulting with the professionals first, before twisting myself in knots coming up with a grand plan. I'm still going to collect all the info I can though, and try and make nice charts and lists. I also think any input from locals will be so much help, even if they think it's something everyone would already know. Hidden gems and all that....
I do like your optimism and energy Oriah - a properly positive person!

I reread my post and realized I may have come across wrong- did not mean to sound obnoxious! Your grand plan is awesome, and I am totally in support of it. :)
In my experience, folks in SAR (especially when looking at older or cold cases) tend to analyze past weather, geography, topography etc like crazy, because so many factors come into play. Sometimes something as little as traffic congestion during a certain time period may point to a new route of travel, kwim?

So that's basically what I meant by that. Oh, and I would dearly love to focus on Mr. Harrod's last known route of travel! Last seen is one thing (and in Mr. Harrod's case, up for debate) but last route of travel is what is going to find him. Even if he wasn't powering under his own steam. Kind of an important distinction, you know?

Well, that's just my opinion anyway!
 
  • #665
I didn't think you were being obnoxious at all, so I'm sorry for making you say sorry unnecessarily (give up on this one; you're never going to out- apologize an English person).

Thanks for the reminder of the importance of keeping Bob's last known route of travel in mind. I'll concentrate on that especially.
 
  • #666
Bumping some of gitana's posts...hopefully in order:


Quote:
I went down to the courthouse and had both entire files copied. They are public records and we are entitled to do so.

Fontelle has NOTHING to do with the attitude on this thread, as far as giving us information or trying to sway things to one side. She is a lady who has said almost nothing and just wants answers as to where her husband went. She has accused no one.

On the other hand, you have three daughters who were given everything, property, money - they were essentially living off their father. But when their mom died, he started changing that a bit. And then, once he met Fontelle and married her, he announced he was adding her to his accounts and that the gravy train was ending. According to his own daughters, that led to a heated exchange.

It was the very next day that Mr. Harrod, an elderly man with bad knees, went missing, on the day his SIL was there, supposedly doing repairs.

Since then, his daughter have publicly criticized their father, have badmouthed him and have done nothing to find him. Nothing really at all. The few attempts like a facebook page, which they were given, they essentially left to rot. When people ask questions about what happened to Mr. Harrod, these same daughters hurl horrible insults and try to shut the conversation down. They called one neighbor (despite the fact that he who said they were nice people and that he did not think they had a thing to do with the disappearance), a pedophile. Why? Because he dared to discuss the case and try to help find answers.

They are the only ones who truly benefit from Mr. Harrod's death.

So, with utmost respect, there is no "campaign" here stemming from anything to do with Fontelle. That is a bit of an insult to the intelligence of the posters on here, especially those like Believe09 who have been tireless in the quest for answers and justice, giving up their own time and resources.

__________________


The above is worth repeating as we continue searching for answers into Mr. Harrod's disappearance.
 
  • #667
Wondering here what Disappeared will show when it comes to statements...like who gave them, who didnt. Who might have taken a poly, who didnt.


Is Disappeared going to divulge who took polys and who did not?

I'm really looking forward to the show airing. What a wonderful Christmas present for Mr. Harrod's story to go national.

The first two episodes of season 5 are up on the TV listings, sadly, neither are Bob's. I keep checking and will be sure to post when his case appears in the TV listings.
 
  • #668
I didn't think you were being obnoxious at all, so I'm sorry for making you say sorry unnecessarily (give up on this one; you're never going to out- apologize an English person).

Thanks for the reminder of the importance of keeping Bob's last known route of travel in mind. I'll concentrate on that especially.

mein Fehler, mein verschulden!

OK- so back to routes of travel. I kind of want to start with what exit Mr. Harrod left through that day (from inside his residence.) Front door, back doors, garage door, windows etc. Anyone know if the doors at the back both open, or just one does?

Wait- I should probably put this all down in the SAR thread. Ya'll, please visit if you have thoughts on this! TIA.
 
  • #669
8 days after Bob disappeared..and this post was apparently from someone who appears to have some knowledge via the Michaels regarding the investigation.

Another assumption coming-perhaps it is safe to say that the Michael's family lawyered up...certainly JeM. Making statements to the media would clearly be counter intuitive under that situation.

We know that JuM made a few statements to the media early on-I wonder if she sought representation eventually as well from a low cost criminal atty??

The vast majority of criminal defence lawyers suggest to their clients that they not speak to the media. "Suggest" in the same sense that a 4 star general might suggest to a grunt that it's time for a haircut.

And if there is any possibility at all that the spouse might in some way be implicated in the crime being investigated, a criminal defence lawyer refers that person to another lawyer. And absolutely refuses to give that person any advice at all.

My guess is that this whole situation has been a bonanza for both criminal and civil attorneys.

And as always, Bob is probably paying for it all. In other words, life as usual.
 
  • #670
mein Fehler, mein verschulden!

OK- so back to routes of travel. I kind of want to start with what exit Mr. Harrod left through that day (from inside his residence.) Front door, back doors, garage door, windows etc. Anyone know if the doors at the back both open, or just one does?

Wait- I should probably put this all down in the SAR thread. Ya'll, please visit if you have thoughts on this! TIA.

We know that LE was unable to get into the garage from the house due to clutter. We also know that Fontelle had shipped 20-25 boxes of her belongings that were stored in the garage awaiting her arrival, so I think we can cross the house to garage to outside route off.

We also know that Bob disappeared during daylight hours because LE says the last time Bob was heard from alive was at 10 am, when he spoke on the telephone to a non-family member (most likely the CL but this is unconfirmed). Bob was gone when the CL arrived at noon.

So I think it is unlikely that Bob or his remains left through a window. Too much chance of catching a neighbour's attention if the perp were to wrestle a 160 pound corpse through a window. I don't think Bob would agree to go through a window were he still alive at that point and with his bad knees, I find it doubtful he would have been able to do so anyway.

Was one of the back doors an exit from the garage? If so, I think that can be eliminated for the same reasons given above.

Something I would love to know is if any of the neighbours saw a pickup truck pulled up on the lawn either in front or in back that day.
 
  • #671


http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/Placentia/sold/5332072-522-Carnation-Dr-Placentia-CA-92870

It's possible a pick up truck could have backed up on the apron to the side of the driveway leading to the front door. IIRC the home to the left of this photo was vacant at the time of Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

I think the exit from the back of the home leads to the side (right in this photo) and is fenced between the homes. Also along this fenced? area is the side door to the garage. I think the fencing around the home would only allow exiting to the front via the front door or around the right side which is also the side the garage sits.

IMO, it's most likely Bob was either taken through the front door, or out the rear door and around the side nearest the garage door exit.

If SAR/HR dogs are going to be at the home, it would be wise to have each exit checked, imo.
 
  • #672
Something I would love to know is if any of the neighbours saw a pickup truck pulled up on the lawn either in front or in back that day.


Respectfully snipped. I think the fencing around the home would not allow for a vehicle to pull behind the home. Also, I'd guess if someone drove along the grassy area in front, tire marks would have been left on the grassy area. Maybe not enough to cast, but definately evidence of tire marks.
 
  • #673
FWIW, I think the fencing along the right/west? side of the house (garage side) is high enough it would obscure whatever might be happening along that side.

522 Carnation Drive placentia - Google Maps

I think viewers have to scroll a little to see the home marked A further left in this map to see Bob's home.
 
  • #674


http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/Placentia/sold/5332072-522-Carnation-Dr-Placentia-CA-92870

It's possible a pick up truck could have backed up on the apron to the side of the driveway leading to the front door. IIRC the home to the left of this photo was vacant at the time of Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

I think the exit from the back of the home leads to the side (right in this photo) and is fenced between the homes. Also along this fenced? area is the side door to the garage. I think the fencing around the home would only allow exiting to the front via the front door or around the right side which is also the side the garage sits.

IMO, it's most likely Bob was either taken through the front door, or out the rear door and around the side nearest the garage door exit.

If SAR/HR dogs are going to be at the home, it would be wise to have each exit checked, imo.

Cubby, I was also just studying the house and street on Google earth!
 
  • #675
Additionally.... knowing the standard height of a garage door is 7', I'd guess the fencing along the right/west side of Mr. Harrod's home nearest the garage to be appx 6' high. A 6' privacy fence wouldn't allow for much to be seen from outside Bob's property along that area of his home.

I wonder if the fencing around the rear of the property is all 6'? I think the only to enter the front yard would be the front door, garage door and gate in the fencing to the right/west side of the garage. At least that is what it looks like from the satellite maps.
 
  • #676
Has anyone besides me noticed these handy man jobs, small projects, were delayed until after the neighbor friend PE who kept an eye on Bob moved? That jumps out at me considering the usual dates the CL was scheduled, when Mrs. Harrod left CA to pack her things and move from CA to MO and when PE moved.

How many people were privy to that information, including that the person who usually kept an eye out on Bob was no longer in the neighborhood?

I wonder who's decision it was to postpone those handy man jobs until after PE moved? Hmmm....
 
  • #677
The back fence looks the same height to me, and it also has trees and shrubs providing more coverage. I think you're right about the heights.

Re: routes from house to vehicle. I am not sure, but are we wise to completely discount a route through the garage door, leading into the home. The one impassable because of clutter? It's just that LE, on the first welfare check couldn't get through it, and it has been stressed quite a lot how very 'cluttered' it was. How it would have been impossible to clear it.

I can't help feeling we all may have been 'helped' to discount this route. I could not move a classic car (also in garage) but could I move piles of boxes and furniture in a very short space of time to clear a narrow path through? I think I could. Then I could park my vehicle right up to the main garage door (a large vehicle would obscure quite a lot), then stow anything I needed. I could also replace the clutter before I left, so the door became inaccessible again. Even if you're small, it's not that hard to slide or push even heavy items out of the way, so I would hate to discount this route completely.
 
  • #678
The one impassable because of clutter? It's just that LE, on the first welfare check couldn't get through it, and it has been stressed quite a lot how very 'cluttered' it was. How it would have been impossible to clear it.

I can't help feeling we all may have been 'helped' to discount this route.

Agree! I believe every single statement/post was important in the "setting the stage".
 
  • #679
I tended to that viewpoint before. Now I am absolutely convinced of it.
 
  • #680
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