CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #11

[Cubby]

It's my understanding the garage door that was found impassable was the door leading from the garage to the west side of the home. Not the garage door itself or the garage door leading from inside the home to the garage. So, iow, two out of three doors were still passable.

And I agree, sliding a few boxes to clear a narrow path and then move them back wouldn't take up much time, which is why I can't personally exclude the unlocked door AH and LE found during the well being check.

Interesting there was no mention from family whether it was usual for that door to be unlocked or not.

I think it is important to pay close attention to what is not said.

 

[zwiebel]

http://www.trulia.com/homes/California/Placentia/sold/5332072-522-Carnation-Dr-Placentia-CA-92870

It's possible a pick up truck could have backed up on the apron to the side of the driveway leading to the front door. IIRC the home to the left of this photo was vacant at the time of Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

I think the exit from the back of the home leads to the side (right in this photo) and is fenced between the homes. Also along this fenced? area is the side door to the garage. I think the fencing around the home would only allow exiting to the front via the front door or around the right side which is also the side the garage sits.

IMO, it's most likely Bob was either taken through the front door, or out the rear door and around the side nearest the garage door exit.

If SAR/HR dogs are going to be at the home, it would be wise to have each exit checked, imo.

Cubby, would it be a good idea to link this in the SAR thread? ( am not offering though, as I can't do it!)

 

[zwiebel]

It's my understanding the garage door that was found impassable was the door leading from the garage to the west side of the home. Not the garage door itself or the garage door leading from inside the home to the garage. So, iow, two out of three doors were still passable.

And I agree, sliding a few boxes to clear a narrow path and then move them back wouldn't take up much time, which is why I can't personally exclude the unlocked door AH and LE found during the well being check.

Interesting there was no mention from family whether it was usual for that door to be unlocked or not.

I think it is important to pay close attention to what is not said.

Sorry Cubby, you've told me that before and I forgot.

ETA: The only person likely to be popping in and out that door was neighbour PE. He would know, I should think.

 

[Cubby]

Sorry Cubby, you've told me that before and I forgot.

ETA: The only person likely to be popping in and out that door was neighbour PE. He would know, I should think.

I don't recall saying so with the specifics regarding the various doors, so no reason to apologize. Lots of my posts are thinking outloud and trying to paint the picture of what I see in my mind with regards to this case.

I think in order to access that door on the west side of the garage, one would have to open the gate in the fencing just to the west of the garage door. (Provided the house faces North so our right would be west. I think, but am not 100% certain, the house faces North.)

We don't know if that gate stayed locked or not, or how access was gained. It would seem odd to me that a visitor would open the gate alongside of the garage to access a side door entering the garage and then go through the garage to enter the home. Versus using the front door.

The fence appears to be too high for the average person to reach over and unlatch the gate from the inside, so really unsure how that gate was accessed. Though, I'd think family would know more so than friends visiting.

 

[Cubby]

Looking for the video of Bob in his back yard by the fence, and found this one. Thought I should bring it up:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/orange_county&id=6939639

Here is the video with Bob near the fence in his back yard.

Whoops, brb. Need to find it again.

ETA:

I'm not sure if this is one of the video links which doesn't work properly when carried over in a quote, so here is a link to the post with the direct link to the video mentioned in the above post.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

 

[zwiebel]

I have just skimmed through CalifExile's posts in thread 1 (sorry, can't link them). He said that most of the houses have their living areas in the back, and that at 3pm on a Monday, no-one would have seen anything. Most people would be at work.

I think that's useful because he lived there and seemed to think there would have been few problems in getting Bob out of the house unnoticed.

At the same time, I noticed that he was accepting the disappearance of Bob at 3pm as a simple fact. As he was nowhere near on the day Bob disappeared and only a desperate person would try to implicate him, I wonder who had told him that to make him so sure?

Not the police - he complained they hadn't spoken to him. I wish we could ask him but sadly, like Bob, he has fallen silent. If LE ever gets around to asking him, I am sure that he would answer any questions honestly. I bet he'd take a lie detector too.

 

[suzyq211]

Here is the video with Bob near the fence in his back yard.

Whoops, brb. Need to find it again.

ETA:

I'm not sure if this is one of the video links which doesn't work properly when carried over in a quote, so here is a link to the post with the direct link to the video mentioned in the above post.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #9

Thanks Cubby. God, every time I watch that I cry.

 

[Cubby]

I think the 3pm time was based on the HD receipt. Thing is we now know the housekeeper found Bob missing long before 3pm.

I wish we knew what PE had to say with regards to the noon'ish time provided by the housekeeper.

 

[zwiebel]

I am absolutely sick of this tablet which does not let me see the videos. So much so I've brought my old one out of retirement. Had to anyway, because I've got a little distracted. It's a bit scholarly and boring, so it's probably not worth clicking on the link, but here it is anyway:

Text mining - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[zwiebel]

I think the 3pm time was based on the HD receipt. Thing is we now know the housekeeper found Bob missing long before 3pm.

I wish we knew what PE had to say with regards to the noon'ish time provided by the housekeeper.

Yes, but that timeline had already been debated for a long time in that thread (cloudajo and Angelo were there, after all. And Dreamweaver.). So I still wonder who was the source of that info that made him so certain?

By the way, he said: 'The best way to establish a window of opportunity is with the phonecall of the maid."

He was right, it was vital. What a shame he didn't stay around to provide more little gems of information.

 

[Cubby]

Here's another thought. If Bob's daughters wanted to know their mothers wishes, why didn't they just pick up a copy of her will which had been filed at the courthouse since May of 2008? Or was it April of 2008?

30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC
HARROD-SAFEKEEPING WILL
04/01/2008 PROBATE OTHER PROBATE MATTER



Participants Results 1 - 1 of 1000000000000
Name Type Start Date End Date Current Attorney
GEORGIA M HARROD DECEDENT 05/14/2008


https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv...c_dtl#top_page

 

[Cubby]

Yes, but that timeline had already been debated for a long time in that thread (cloudajo and Angelo were there, after all. And Dreamweaver.). So I still wonder who was the source of that info that made him so certain?

By the way, he said: 'The best way to establish a window of opportunity is with the phonecall of the maid."

He was right, it was vital. What a shame he didn't stay around to provide more little gems of information.

Agreed, however at the time the disappeared clip with the housekeeper speaking in her own words had not yet become available, so her words were unknown.

We don't know that PE would have stuck with the 3:00 pm time frame if he was aware the housekeeper arrived much earlier. Maybe he will post something on his blog once the disappeared show airs. I would really love to know his thoughts once he is aware the housekeepers time differs greatly than that of the sil's. We'll have to wait and see if he posts any thoughts after the show airs.


ETA: The 3pm time frame is referenced in one of the MSM articles. That could be the source PE saw. However that is based on a reciept which was likely obtained after the SIL arrived at Bob's to find the housekeeper waiting.... We know that based on the housekeepers words. My guess is the SIL had some second thoughts about needing to explain where he was and left after the housekeeper arrived for that 3pm reciept.

 

[Cubby]

Just some more thinking outloud.

If I were PE, I'd have to wonder why I hadn't learned the housekeeper found Bob missing closer to noon and why Bob's daughters hadn't told me of such. I wouldn't buy for a second that Bob's daughters first became aware of the noonish arrival when they first saw the disappeared clip. After all, they saw their own sister JuM say noon as well in the video the day following Mr. Harrod's disappearance.

:back:


It would really cause me to go back and review in my mind every single detail I had been told and by whom....

That is, if I were PE. I really do hope he shares his thoughts after viewing the Disappeared episode. If not publicly, than with LE. It is never too late for him to pick up the phone and contact Detective Radomski himself. He may hold the key to solving this puzzle without even realizing it.

 

[zwiebel]

You're right. I wonder if he ever has contacted them? He was very disillusioned by PPD when he posted here, but there is another detective in charge of the case now, and I am sure they would never refuse to note any information he cared to give.

IMO, there should be nothing to stop him picking up the phone and talking to them, if he hasn't already. If there is anything he feels might be stopping him, he should tell them about that too.

ETA: He might be able to provide some information about watchfulneighbour too.

 

[zwiebel]

Here's another thought. If Bob's daughters wanted to know their mothers wishes, why didn't they just pick up a copy of her will which had been filed at the courthouse since May of 2008? Or was it April of 2008?

30-2008-00068771-PR-OP-LJC
HARROD-SAFEKEEPING WILL
04/01/2008 PROBATE OTHER PROBATE MATTER



Participants Results 1 - 1 of 1000000000000
Name Type Start Date End Date Current Attorney
GEORGIA M HARROD DECEDENT 05/14/2008


https://ocapps.occourts.org/ProbPubv...c_dtl#top_page

If they ever cared to give an answer to that question, I guess it would go along the same lines as their answer for not reporting Bob missing. They didn't know they were entitled to do it.

Yet they have proved surprisingly adept at trust and will-related entitlements since then.

 

[Cubby]

If they ever cared to give an answer to that question, I guess it would go along the same lines as their answer for not reporting Bob missing. They didn't know they were entitled to do it.

Yet they have proved surprisingly adept at trust and will-related entitlements since then.

True. I can't argue with any of what you've posted. Not one bit of the obvious selected effort in matters relating to Mr. Harrod's disappearance and assets.

I do hope PE contacts LE. It's really his business and after being threatened publicly, I wouldn't blame him for keeping that information confidential between only himself and LE. I can certainly see some of the inconsistencies becoming more and more apparent as new information is made public, causing him to question more inconsistencies which may not be so apparent to those who were not close to Bob.

 

[zwiebel]

It looks to me like a few potential sources of information have been shut down over the years. But if the information's there, it's there. It could still open up again at anytime.

The CL has obviously had the best information the whole time, but I guess she gave that to LE straight away, so the horse had bolted. And then she spoke out on Disappeared. What a great lady. I think we should keep a careful eye out for any attempts to undermine her credibility after the programme airs. They may be subtle, but I'm sure they will come.

 

[Cubby]

I fully expect an attack on the housekeepers credibility. However, considering both she and JuM stated about noon, it will be pretty hard to convince anyone when the youngest daughter already confirmed the time offered by the housekeeper. I think that is one of those glaring inconsistencies which just can't be explained away. I'm very interested in what additional info the show may reveal.

 

[Cubby]

Gosh, I wish we could all have a big gathering to watch the disappeared episode say on a theatre sized screen. If I could arrange such a gathering for all of us I would. I'm sure we'll all be watching together in spirit.

On another note, way back in August of 2010 we discussed Bob as a possible match to bones found in Lucerne Valley.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #3

I found this UID as a possible match for Bob.
Partial skeletal remains found March 2010 San Bernadino County.

https://identifyus.org/cases/full_report/6788

Partial skeletal remains found scattered in the open desert northeast of Lucerne Valley. Sex is "most likely" male (based on measurements of humeral head). Stature is estimated as 5'6" to 6' - But, no femur located (estimate from tibia), so could be shorter or taller. Age, race cannot be estimated. Time interval estimate appears between one and ten years. Could be much longer. Identity can ONLY be established by DNA.

time interval may be a little off but since they don't know for sure we may want to make sure Bobs DNA has been entered in CODIS for official rule in/out of these partial skeletal remains.

For the above UID:
04/29/10: Samples (right tibia and left humerus) submitted to CA DOJ-DNA. Waiting for results.

Dentals not available for this UID.
Do we know if Bobs dna has been entered into CODIS?

ETA: Location remains found:
Address 1: 6 miles N/O Lucerne, 3 miles E/O State Route 247

ETAA: this is a few hundred miles from where Bob went missing. Probably unlikely but not impossible if someone moved Bobs remains further from where they were originally dumped.

can someone map this location the remains were found? tia

It appears DNA has been succesfully obtained on this UID, but Bob does not appear on the rule out list. In fact, there is no rule out list for this UID. Any idea's why?

Here is a link to the UP 6788 for which we were comparing to Bob.
https://identifyus.org/cases/6788

DNA is updated as of October 18th of this year indicating nuclear DNA is on file. I wonder if that is accurate and if so why Bob is not listed as a rule out? :waitasec:

 

[Cubby]

Gosh, I wish we could all have a big gathering to watch the disappeared episode say on a theatre sized screen. If I could arrange such a gathering for all of us I would. I'm sure we'll all be watching together in spirit.

On another note, way back in August of 2010 we discussed Bob as a possible match to bones found in Lucerne Valley.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA CA - Bob Harrod, 81, Orange County, 27 July 2009 - #3



It appears DNA has been succesfully obtained on this UID, but Bob does not appear on the rule out list. In fact, there is no rule out list for this UID. Any idea's why?

Here is a link to the UP 6788 for which we were comparing to Bob.
https://identifyus.org/cases/6788

DNA is updated as of October 18th of this year indicating nuclear DNA is on file. I wonder if that is accurate and if so why Bob is not listed as a rule out? :waitasec:

It's only an hours drive between RS, CA and Lucerne Valley, CA.

Running Springs, CA to Lucerne Valley, CA - Google Maps