CA - Dr. William Ayres for child molestation, San Mateo, 2007 #1

[Mercyneal]

Believe09- Actually I would think it would be up to the job of the civil lawyers in California to smoke this stuff out.

I love it how the host of the TV show said "This Ayres character."

 

[OnbekendeBron]

I normally can't stand lawyers. I really liked that guy. The best part was the end when he got up and made a point to shake the interviewer's hand. Seems like an up front guy - pitbull, but honest.

Overall I loved the interview. There were a couple of things that he said that I kind of chuckled about:

The part about "be proud" seemed a bit odd to me, but I get what he's saying.

The part about if you remember anything, call the authorities and then see a shrink kind of made me laugh (ironically) a bit. I know of an adult ayres victim who apparently took jail time over going to see a court appointed shrink. I have to admit that I'd be having the same struggle, but probably I'd take the shrink option and the whole thing would be a sham, and then the judge would probably throw the book at me...

Anyhow, I thought it was a GREAT interview.

I liked the "this ayres character" thing a lot too... heh heh

 

[Mercyneal]

I loved the interview too. However, the lawyer Mitch Garabedian did get the dates when Ayres was in Boston wrong. Ayres worked at Judge Baker and Children's Hospital and something called the Reception Center for Boys from 1959-1963. NOT 1969-1973.


From what I've heard and read about the lawyer Mitch Garabedian ( he figures prominently in the excellent book "Our Fathers" by Newsweek writer David France, about the Boston pedophile priests cases) he's a very standup guy and very tenacious.

If there are any Boston victims out there reading this who are interested in a civil suit, I recommend contacting Mitch Garabedian at 617-523-6250

 

[kbl8201]

I normally can't stand lawyers. I really liked that guy. The best part was the end when he got up and made a point to shake the interviewer's hand. Seems like an up front guy - pitbull, but honest.

Overall I loved the interview. There were a couple of things that he said that I kind of chuckled about:

The part about "be proud" seemed a bit odd to me, but I get what he's saying.

The part about if you remember anything, call the authorities and then see a shrink kind of made me laugh (ironically) a bit. I know of an adult ayres victim who apparently took jail time over going to see a court appointed shrink. I have to admit that I'd be having the same struggle, but probably I'd take the shrink option and the whole thing would be a sham, and then the judge would probably throw the book at me...

Anyhow, I thought it was a GREAT interview.

I liked the "this ayres character" thing a lot too... heh heh

how can they put a victim in jail for refusing to see a shrink?

 

[Missizzy]

First, OnbekendeBron--Please don't ever "shut up". I'm sure a LOT of people wished I would just shut up and move on. I can't, though, as I know a child rapist walks to the streets. Our voices need to be heard. Trust me, as a victim by proxy, WSers are extremely welcoming and supportive. I'm assuming you are male. I am the mother of six male survivors, now aged 19-24. I'm very familiar with many of the issues you have probably encountered. Please know that I care very much about what you have to say.

kbl--I've posted at length about our prohibition of speaking to our children or allowing them to speak among themselves about the rapes while we were awaiting trial. The children saw a trauma assessment therapist weekly (the ones who were deemed to benefit from it--our kids with the greatest level of DD received nothing more than the exam). We were told by the DA to not allow any discussion prior to the trial in order to preserve the children's testimony and to not confuse their memory. They even had special aids at school to prevent discussion. Remember, we had eight victims living in one house. It makes sense but was brutal. If you have any questions, PM me.

 

[Mercyneal]

KB8201- Actually the Ayres victim Onbekendebron refers to was offered the choice of going into rehab (which would entail therapy )for alcoholism, or going to jail for his second or third DWI. He'd already been in rehab previously for a long period of time and it didn't stick. But for some reason he chose to do a number of months in jail rather than face his demons that would have come up when he was sober in rehab.

 

[kbl8201]

KB8201- Actually the Ayres victim Onbekendebron refers to was offered the choice of going into rehab (which would entail therapy )for alcoholism, or going to jail for his second or third DWI. He'd already been in rehab previously for a long period of time and it didn't stick. But for some reason he chose to do a number of months in jail rather than face his demons that would have come up when he was sober in rehab.

ahhhh that explains it.

i was like 'wtf?' lol

 

[OnbekendeBron]

KB8201- Actually the Ayres victim Onbekendebron refers to was offered the choice of going into rehab (which would entail therapy )for alcoholism, or going to jail for his second or third DWI. He'd already been in rehab previously for a long period of time and it didn't stick. But for some reason he chose to do a number of months in jail rather than face his demons that would have come up when he was sober in rehab.

Yes... sorry I wasn't more clear about that: As many of you know, victims of these kind of crimes often have a variety of lifelong issues relating to different (and almost always) destructive coping methods. I didn't clarify that the "therapy or jail" choice related to crimes that he committed, not the fact that that he was a victim.

I certainly don't want to excuse bad behavior, even if we COULD prove that the behavior is the direct result of crimes committed against someone as a child.

BUT my point is: I certainly can understand choosing NOT to go to therapy, given the rather negative exposure to psychology/psychiatry that we've had in our past. I certainly have run through the "what-if" scenarios in my head on this one: would I be bold enough to tell the judge what happened in my past and tell them that I want another option that doesn't include psychiatry... Maybe.. because I've been speaking up for awhile now, so I might not be as reluctant. Presented with the scenario a year or so ago, and I think maybe I would have just quietly taken the jail time and added it to the list of wrongs done to me. (See... that's where the destructive coping aspect comes into play.)

 

[OnbekendeBron]

ahhhh that explains it.

i was like 'wtf?' lol

Yeah... On the other hand, before I called the police to report, I was terrified that they could lock me up or somehow force me to testify if I reported and then didn't want to speak out against him in court. Or that I would be charged with crimes for not reporting earlier.

In general, I wasn't born yesterday, and I've worked for police and DAs, so you'd think I wouldn't have been so terrified. But I was... That's the kind of thing that potential victims need to be aware of up front: what's NOT going to happen to them if they report. Take some of the terror out, and all you're left with is embarrassment... easier to cope with, I think.

 

[Mercyneal]

One of the Ayres victims who was molested by Ayres in juvenile hall in the late 1960s told a judge that he wouldn't go back to Ayres, but wouldn't say why. Too ashamed. The judge yelled at the boy and told him that if he didn't continue therapy with Ayres, he would send him off to a juvenile camp. The victim chose the camp. One incident of molestation by Ayres was enough, thank you.

 

[kbl8201]

the thing im seeing more of now, is victims fear of coming foward due to the fear they will be prosecuted for false reports if the police/da/judge doesnt believe them.

there was a case in oregon a few years ago where a girl was gang raped (my opinion) by her boyfriend and two of his friends at a neighbors party. the girl was terrified to come forward but her friend and her friends mother (who threw the party, and supplied booze to minors) convinced her to go to the police. then they testifed in court they thought she was lying cause 'she didnt act like a victim should act' (how exactly are they supposed to act?). the judge then said he didnt know what to believe, so he acquitted the rapists and threw the girl in prison

 

[believe09]

Here is something to consider when pondering the reporting thing on this case-the cases that will be prosecuted criminally will be the cases that have coroborating evidence...either because a victim told someone or it was documented somewhere.

BUT, say your goal was to say out loud something happened to me when I was seen by this man-when I was young and confused. 40 years may have passed but it isnt like you forgot it-it is this terrible thing you keep hidden.

All I can say is perhaps, just perhaps, shining a bright light on it will make it smaller. Will make it less of a burden, and more of an experience. You could go to a conference of male survivors, like the one we linked in NYC this month. You could find an attorney who will believe you. There will be others like you. You will find out that you are OK, that you are an adult who cannot be victimized again like that and maybe you can even get something back that was lost to you.

Maybe your experience will not qualify for criminal prosecution...but maybe there will be enough there to obtain records....and this will pave the way for others.

 

[Mercyneal]

The vast majority of the Ayres victims have not filed a civil lawsuit. They have- under great emotional duress- come forward to police to say they were molested. Some have already testified in a criminal trial.

As for the Levine victims who have filed the civil suits, perhaps their cases were out of statute for a criminal case.

But if anyone thinks it's a cakewalk for a sex abuse victim to file a civil suit, guess again. You will be deposed many times and every last little crumb of your life will be held up and scrutinized. It's time consuming and exhausting.

Bravo to the victims of Levine for filing suits!

 

[Missizzy]

Thank you kbl, I appreciate you saying those words. As always, you are my hero.

Dr. Johnson, you will find that Websleuths is extremely "victim/survivor-friendly". I am the mother of eight survivors of childhood sexual abuse and I take issue with being called gullible. I personally know that several of the other posters on this thread are also survivors. I would suggest that if you use a friendlier and calmer tone in forum discussions, we will all be happy to hear what you have to say.

Please note that many of us have triggers and are working hard to maintain our survivor stance.

Just a reminder--it is usually suggested that "professional posters" first check with Tricia to get her approval for posting. I also recommend reading over the rules of etiquette.

Thank you and welcome to Websleuths.

 

[believe09]

Dr Johnson, hope you read the follow ups at least. We will likely have your post edited to remove your references to your own blog-It might be seen as you trying to drive traffic to your site instead of looking to uncover the truth regarding these cases....I am not leveling an accusation mind you simply stating how it might look.

I am grateful that we all agree that medical professionals are encouraged not to turn on one another. Rather than simply looking for oversight, I think the solution might be in changing that dynamic in medical school. Let's nip it in the bud shall we?

I think your statement regarding Bradley is disingenuous at best-Parents are not suddenly gullible these days...Parents have ALWAYS been gullible when it comes to the medical care of their children. The Ayres case goes back 40 years might I point out. Levine is being dropped left and right since he agreed that the medical licensing board in North Carolina could conceivably determine that his examinations of those children's genitals were NOT MEDICALLY NECESSARY...and/or that they were UNDOCUMENTED in the charts. Levine AGREED TO THIS when he agreed NOT to go forward with a fight on losing his license.

Also, those who came forward in the Levine case believe that they were sexually assaulted not because they were told by a defense attorney, but because they were.

I appreciate you feeling that you could freely express yourself here-you will forgive us if we do not leave you with the last word on this.

 

[Missizzy]

The exact quote for Dr. Johnson's blog. I want to make sure we look at this in context:

http://drjshousecalls.blogspot.com/2008/04/on-dr-melvin-levine.html

"But I expect that, in the 1980's, Pediatricians were not quite so aware of "scum-sucking pieces of excrement" who might sue them 20 years later."

One can draw their own conclusions. But to me the statement above seems to be referring to people who have been abused (scum-sucking pieces of excrement) filing suit 20 years after the abuse took place. As we all know, most victims do require an attorney to navigate a criminal or civil trial. I stand by my quote and link.

FWIW, our family was compelled to participate in a criminal trial, an appeals trial, a Supreme Court affirmation, to comply with extensive depositions and testimony in a full Post Conviction Relief Trial, and to work with the local DA fighting a request for clemency from the governor of our state. We actually had to pay an attorney $10,000. out of our pocket to represent us at depositions.

We have thankfully had the services of the DA's and the Attorney General of our state. Our children's abuse which took place on our property, the rapist's property, city park property, and public school property occurred 11 years ago. The entire process took ten years of our lives--a goodly chunk out of every single day. No, not a cakewalk.

All our children received was therapy at the county Mental Health office through the age of 21. There is no opportunity to sue anyone. Nor would we wish to. We're not in this for the money. We continue fighting to change the laws concerning victims' rights and to push for greater education concerning the recognition of childhood sexual abuse.

Your statement that this has anything to do with money is outrageous and cruel to all survivors. I'm afraid that stance won't fly for long on WS.

 

[JBean]

Never a dull moment here at WS

 

[Missizzy]

I'd like to address OnbekendeBron and Mercyneal--See why WS is so wonderful? We have a really big bouncer. Thank you so much, JBean. The woman was way out of line. I never fail to feel safe here.

I hope that everyone continues to discuss this very important case. What a reminder of how cruel and hurtful some can be in comparison with how civil we are expected to act on this forum, while still engaging in spirited debate.

(((hugs)))

 

[kbl8201]

so victims are scums sucking pieces of excrement. jeez.

i see my post was deleted and i cant argue about it. but i meant every word of it

 

[believe09]

so victims are scums sucking pieces of excrement. jeez.

i see my post was deleted and i cant argue about it. but i meant every word of it

(((hugs)))

I just received a lovely note from San Mateo County regarding Ayre's records that are over here in MA. They did not have much to say other than they were aware there were records here and that the prosecutors are going to be handling it at trial.

So just in case anyone else would like to see if they will cop to actually having the personnel records, you can reach the big boss, Steve Wagstaffe at:
[email protected]

I wonder if they have them if they will share them with Suffolk County DA or BPD???

And I wonder why Ayre's left Boston? No offense to other areas of the country, but we are the medical "Hub" here..... :angel: